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babybird
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25 Jan 2014, 7:28 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

People do eventually get caught. It's far wiser to play by the rules imo.


What rules?

Who made these rules?

Nobodies ever informed me of them.

Is there a book somewhere, that states these rules?

Who is enforcing them?

Have I missed something?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2014, 7:29 pm

babybird wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

People do eventually get caught. It's far wiser to play by the rules imo.


What rules?

Who made these rules?

Nobodies ever informed me of them.

Is there a book somewhere, that states these rules?

Who is enforcing them?

Have I missed something?


Laws and stuff :/



babybird
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25 Jan 2014, 7:39 pm

I think there seems to be some kind of confusion here.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2014, 7:43 pm

babybird wrote:
I think there seems to be some kind of confusion here.

Are we talking about religion exclusively or life in general? Because if it's religion, I doubt very many care outside the Bible belt what you do so long as you don't break laws.



babybird
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25 Jan 2014, 7:50 pm

Oh, right yes, I mean that sometimes the law can get in the way.

Is that the same as breaking the law?


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2014, 7:58 pm

babybird wrote:
Oh, right yes, I mean that sometimes the law can get in the way.

Is that the same as breaking the law?

At your own risk. All actions have consequences.



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25 Jan 2014, 8:53 pm

Actually this is taught in some forms of Gnosticism, though then satan is called the demiurge. Anyway, while you have some points, I think you are being ridiculously cynical and pessimistic, though I don't have time to counter all points now. As Buddhism says, life is suffering, suffering is not evil, acknowledging this brings happiness.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2014, 9:34 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Actually this is taught in some forms of Gnosticism, though then satan is called the demiurge. Anyway, while you have some points, I think you are being ridiculously cynical and pessimistic, though I don't have time to counter all points now. As Buddhism says, life is suffering, suffering is not evil, acknowledging this brings happiness.

Many people would disagree with the idea suffering is not evil. Ask the sufferer that. Most would say it is.



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Jan 2014, 11:02 pm

Ganondox wrote:
Actually this is taught in some forms of Gnosticism, though then satan is called the demiurge.

I was about to say just that.

Valentinean Gnostic cosmology in a nutshell:

Whole bunch of Aeons, some 30. Sophia was the last and youngest, got tired of feeling like the sandwich girl so she decided to make a REALLY big and over-the-top creation to show everyone that she could grasp the concept of God. She realized she bit off more than she could chew, had a half-stutter, and from that her creation became Kenoma or 'see of shards' into which she was pulled by her change in focus. From her mistake were also spawned creatures called Archons, the chief of these being Yaldaboth. These were lesser god-beings born outside Pleroma who then, when looking across the abyss to Pleroma, thought they were seeing their own reflection, decided that they were 'it', and went on doing things the way they wanted to. Sophia tricked Yaldaboth into putting divine sparks into things and viola - we're (if you're a Gnostic at least you'd believe this) here trying to escape the iron-barred cage of 'evil' matter to go back to the only thing that's good or true - the Pleroma.

I don't mean to knock Christian Gnostics but.... I'm sorry, matter is what you make of it. Instead of having the Marcion panic when trying to hold Jesus up against YHVH and true up the difference its probably best to just take the documents through Hebrew history (Jewish and Christian) and consider them in their context. Perhaps YHVH was a heavily coded mystery and the seeming Dr. Dre side he had in the desert was a metaphor for something much deeper? Almost all of that stuff as it was seemed to be coming from coded language revolving around astrology and the four elements anyway (add Elijah's experience in the mountain cave to the later). Some people have even made the claim that Jesus might have been referring to the Canaanite god El as his father, Paul's bit about Melchizedek and the location of Melchizedek would cause his being a priest in the order of Melchizedek to make a lot more sense in that light (I really think that what happened in the desert with Moses had something to do with the particular Egyptian ruler's catching Ra's wrath as well as Moses having an awakening to the superconscious).

My point in saying that - there are so many ways to look at the history of the Abrahamic religions that doesn't require making matter evil. It's just not necessary and beyond that it's horrifically flawed and escapist thinking when people consider matter fundamentally evil.



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26 Jan 2014, 8:41 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Actually this is taught in some forms of Gnosticism, though then satan is called the demiurge. Anyway, while you have some points, I think you are being ridiculously cynical and pessimistic, though I don't have time to counter all points now. As Buddhism says, life is suffering, suffering is not evil, acknowledging this brings happiness.

Many people would disagree with the idea suffering is not evil. Ask the sufferer that. Most would say it is.


Suffering is often the result of evil, but it is not evil in and of itself. Is pain evil? Is sadness evil? No? Then how is suffering evil?


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Fnord
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26 Jan 2014, 8:45 am

a. Religion is evil.
b. Satan is evil.
: : Religion is Satan.



abelianization
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26 Jan 2014, 10:17 am

Look, I know you feel that bad outweighs good, but really all things are a mixture of good and bad, with both contained within the other. Take evolution, for example. I know it's easiest to explain it in terms of ruthless competition between individuals, but there's more to it than that. For instance, evolution favours reproductive success, and therefore a mother's love. It also works on the group level at the same time as the individual level. A cooperative group, perhaps even one with individuals which would sacrifice their lives for the others, would tend do do better than a group of selfish individuals. Evolution then favours clever cheaters within those groups, and, in turn, groups that are vigilant against giving to those who will not give in return, and so on. Competition and cooperation interact in a complex relationship in which neither can altogether predominate. It is the same with many other things. The world is full of both sweet roses with sharp thorns and thunderclouds with silver linings. It's a confusing, sad, yet often beautiful world.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Jan 2014, 11:00 am

Ganondox wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Actually this is taught in some forms of Gnosticism, though then satan is called the demiurge. Anyway, while you have some points, I think you are being ridiculously cynical and pessimistic, though I don't have time to counter all points now. As Buddhism says, life is suffering, suffering is not evil, acknowledging this brings happiness.

Many people would disagree with the idea suffering is not evil. Ask the sufferer that. Most would say it is.


Suffering is often the result of evil, but it is not evil in and of itself. Is pain evil? Is sadness evil? No? Then how is suffering evil?

It's evil because of how it affects people. Suffering is difficult to endure and extremely uncomfortable.



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26 Jan 2014, 11:02 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Ganondox wrote:
Actually this is taught in some forms of Gnosticism, though then satan is called the demiurge. Anyway, while you have some points, I think you are being ridiculously cynical and pessimistic, though I don't have time to counter all points now. As Buddhism says, life is suffering, suffering is not evil, acknowledging this brings happiness.

Many people would disagree with the idea suffering is not evil. Ask the sufferer that. Most would say it is.


Suffering is often the result of evil, but it is not evil in and of itself. Is pain evil? Is sadness evil? No? Then how is suffering evil?

It's evil because of how it affects people. Suffering is difficult to endure and extremely uncomfortable.
\

Just because something is difficult to endure and uncomfortable doesn't mean it's evil. Without suffering, what would depth would there be to life? It's not really living if you live without any pain or sorrow.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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26 Jan 2014, 11:10 am

To me that's evil.
For instance, dying of cancer is evil.



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26 Jan 2014, 11:16 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
To me that's evil.
For instance, dying of cancer is evil.


How is it anymore evil than dying of anything else? Sure, you suffer more, but it's all the same in the end, no matter how you go.


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