If men were oppressed

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A brilliant short French film set in a parallel universe where MRA's have legitimate arguments.

http://www.upworthy.com/a-french-film-s ... like-kinda

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4UWxlVvT1A#t=381[/youtube]

You bring up MRAs, and I have to agree with you that almost all of what they have to say is utter BS.

That said, I don't understand why so many people can't seem to bring up women's issues without turning it around and making it all about how easy men supposedly have it.

Aside from rape men make up the vast majority of victims of violent crime. They also make up the majority of prison inmates. And the homeless. They work more dangerous jobs and are exponentially more likely to die on those jobs. And they commit suicide four times more often than women.

All of this is really hard to reconcile with the idea of men as a privileged "unoppressed" class.

It reminded me of the film White Man's Burden.It's interesting to see things reversed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Man's_Burden_(film)

Another show that I thought was a bit eye opening and helped encourage empathy and sympathy was an episode of Sliders where they were in a world where Mexico had taken over and owned the US and white people were a minority and were sneaking in from Canada to find jobs.

There was also an episode where women where the dominant gender and Hillary Clinton was president.

Virtually all of these issues you bring up are symptomatic of patriarchy.

Its patriarchy that insists that men maintain a facade of being tough, of acting in a aggressive tribal manner and not being sensitive or open about their mental health and emotional problems.

You can't blame women or the gains of feminism for any of these things.

The reason fewer women commit suicide, end up homeless or end up in prison is because women are more likely than men to seek help from others when they are in crisis. Women are less likely to become violent or turn to criminality. The very fact that men remain silent and bottle up their problems out of pride is what confounds the problem for men who do seek help, because there isnt the resource or advocacy infrastructure for men when they do look for aid.

So in conclusion yes, men DO collectively bring their own problems upon themselves.

I don't. Where did I say that I did?

I do believe that the feminist idea of "male privilege," the belief that being male is inherently advantageous, gets in the way of us as a society addressing mens issues that are every bit as serious as those that women face.

I just don't understand why people can't bring up the problems that one group has to deal with without feeling the need to trivialize those of another group.

Seems like both sides spend all their effort trying to show how the other has it better. What's the point of that, I wonder?

Oh I see. Please disregard my previous posts. If I'd known what an ignorant blatantly biased as*hole you were, I'd not have bothered responding.

How does what i've said make me biased let alone a biased as*hole?

Wasn't my argument empirical enough for you? Attack the argument rather than throwing ad hominems. You just look like a petulant child otherwise.

Being male IS inherently advantageous, because the business, political and media institutions are all controlled and operated for the most part, by men. Men still have power where it matters.

As i've already said, which you replied to in an immature way, men bring their own issues upon themselves through institutions that they created. I say this AS A MAN. We DO bring these things upon ourselves.

Only men can dismantle these institutions.


Did you bother watching the video?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOobwQ4u0GI[/youtube]

That film made me laugh because a lot of the stuff in that film does happen only not in a grand scale. If a man is raped or sexually harrassed by a woman they laugh at him or don't believe him, if a man is abused by a woman they either laugh at him or falsely accuse him of being the batterer. But thats life, women deserve more rights than men anyway.

It would, wouldn't it.

Or it does happen, but goes unreported. Either because of traumatised victims or chauvinist and indifferent police.

When you start to use female on male rape to compare you know you really are grasping at straws.

Its debateable if its even medically possible for a woman to rape a man, let alone quote any actual incidences.

As for the rights that men lack, it isnt for the gains of women.

Happy Valentine's Day

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSiV5HlsKNo[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tQSOlF9ZZM[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks[/youtube] It is perfectly acceptable for women to abuse men or beat them.

Every woman who ever gave into societal pressure to conform (that is to say, the vast majority) contributed to the system that kept women from gaining the influence they deserved. Women are thus collectively responsible for all the issues they face.

Sound like victim-blaming BS to you? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Yet you make the exact same argument in reference to men.

That is why you are biased. The smugness is why you are an as*hole.



Have you considered the possibility that it is the lack of resources, and the lack of advocacy that makes men bottle up their problems in the first place? And that it is ideas just like what you are pushing now, that men are automatically advantaged, that prevents people from realizing that men might need that help in the first place.



Empirical my ass, you stated a bunch of opinions as facts and provided no supporting evidence.



And? The men in those positions of power are a tiny tiny minority. It sucks that women who aim for those positions are at a disadvantage, but the fact that most CEOs are male does not impact my, or the vast majority of men's, lives in any meaningful way.

The presidents penis is not feeding the scores of homeless men we let slip through the cracks because we believe men don't need help. And those suicidal men (like my grandfather and my stepfather who both killed themselves because they felt they were worse than useless when they became unable to work), I'm sure the lack of breasts on most CEOs is a great comfort to them.



No. The vast vast majority of men had nothing to do with the creation of the current system and have nothing to do with maintaining it. And to lump them in with the tiny minority who have benefited from it and to tell them, when they are literally starving in the streets or killing themselves trying to cope with that system, that they are advantaged and privileged and that their problems are their own fault is (pardon my language, but there really is no other term for it) a load of f*****g BS.



I did. As something meant to illustrate women's issues more clearly by reversing the gender roles, it worked. But what I wonder is why you felt the need to title this thread the way you did, or to imply that men have no legitimate grievance against the system.

Last edited by mds_02 on 11 Feb 2014, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Isn't it hypocritical to say this but then decry the victim-blaming of women?

I can't take the idea of patriarchy seriously, it ignores the contributions of women and their own privileges and role in the creation of our culture and society which literally cannot exist without them. If one form of privilege exists then an infinite amount exists and decrying one and not the other means you are pursuing your own wants and desires at the expense of another. We're all individuals and our rights should be respected as such, we are all different with our own strength and weaknesses. Equality doesn't mean sameness, it means freedom.

No, its a fallacy to blame rape on women on things like rape because of how they dress.

The onus is on the man to keep his hands to himself. If you walk into a crime prone area wearing an expensive suit and talking on your 4G phone do you share some of the culpibility if someone robs you? No. Thats why the blame culture against women victims of rape is BS.

The video touches on that very issue actually by portraying the men as being co-erced into wearing balaclavas.