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Stannis
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20 Feb 2014, 5:26 pm

This was linked from New Scientist. It looks plausible.

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First of all, the notion is set forward strictly as a hypothesis. No claim whatever is made that it is actually a fact that humans somehow arose through hybridization of pigs with chimpanzees. In contrast, proponents of the idea that humans are closely related to apes (and not to pigs) often speak as if their case has been proved beyond doubt. But, of course, it has not. The wide acceptance of this idea may actually be due to the lack of any competitive theory. I merely propose an evaluation of two distinct hypotheses by the usual scientific criterion: The hypothesis less consistent with available data should be rejected.



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Looking at a subset of the listed traits, however, it's clear that the other parent in this hypothetical cross that produced the first human would be an intelligent animal with a protrusive, cartilaginous nose, a thick layer of subcutaneous fat, short digits, and a naked skin. It would be terrestrial, not arboreal, and adaptable to a wide range of foods and environments. These traits may bring a particular creature to mind. In fact, a particular nonprimate does have, not only each of the few traits just mentioned, but every one of the many traits listed in th sidebar. Ask yourself: Is it likely that an animal unrelated to humans would possess so many of the "human" characteristics that distinguish us from primates? That is, could it be a mere coincidence? It's only my opinion, but I don't think so.


http://www.macroevolution.net/human-ori ... waAXTnWHlL


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In August 2011 a sow in the remote Central American village (Santa Cruz El Chol, Baja Verapaz, Guatemala) produced another such "piglet" with a humanlike head. Its appearance, rather similar to the Chinese "monkey-pig" shown above, was recorded in television news reports

Macroevolution

Possible primate/ pig hybrid.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlCj8lwgyes[/youtube]



Apple_in_my_Eye
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20 Feb 2014, 9:26 pm

Sounds like a creationist trying to pull a Sokal and failing.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/amilliongod ... s-failure/



Metalwolf
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20 Feb 2014, 9:42 pm

He had me wondering until I poked around that site and saw him trying to describe 'cabbits' (cat and rabbit cross) as as another legitimate hybrid. These 'cabbits' are in reality Manx cats who sometimes have a tendency to hop around like rabbits because of their spine being a bit deformed (and thus unable to move around normally.)

The only thing I can say about his theory having distantly remote chance of being true is that yes, transplants involving pigs are done because of many anatomical similarities (including having a kidney or some other organ ((can't remember which one)) that is more similar to ours then even the chimpanzee organ.)

Other then that, he'll have a big difficulty in proving anything of the 'chimpXpig' hybrid theory.

P.S This theory he has is quite lulzy. I had a good laugh, and I'd thought I'd heard everything.


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20 Feb 2014, 10:29 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H2q_y284lw[/youtube]


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Fnord
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20 Feb 2014, 10:46 pm

Where is the genetic data? Comparisons of both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA from humans to those of apes and pigs would suffice.

Merely pointing out physical and behavioral similarities is insufficient.



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20 Feb 2014, 10:57 pm

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LegoGenetics


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20 Feb 2014, 10:59 pm

Are we talking about Homer Simpson?? :D


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Tollorin
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20 Feb 2014, 11:11 pm

Maybe he stole the idea from one of the books of Bernard Weber...



Pobbles
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21 Feb 2014, 1:34 am

Not sure if genetic data was looked at, but if you look at it strictly in terms of phenotype then the 'theory' doesn't sound too incredible.

If it happened to be true, it would certainly explain the bizarre relationship that our species has had with pigs throughout history. If anyone has read Hitchens' 'God is Not Great', he illustrates this far more eloquently than I ever could in a lovely chapter devoted entirely to swine.



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21 Feb 2014, 6:19 am

Have we *tried* finding the limits of hybridisation between species? No need to involve any adult specimens; just check if the gametes will fuse in a petri dish and create an embryo. Then again, we know that human sperm is capable of fertilising hamster eggs...

Though I don't think they're viable. But, we shall see which crosses would be, if it weren't for the mothers system destroying them...


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Fnord
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21 Feb 2014, 9:00 am

Pobbles wrote:
Not sure if genetic data was looked at, but if you look at it strictly in terms of phenotype then the 'theory' doesn't sound too incredible.

That's why taxonomic classification is being overhauled -- species that were once thought to be related solely because the had superficial similarities have been found not to be related when their genomes have been examined.

Or, to put it another way, just because a baby may look like me does not mean that I'm its daddy.



ruveyn
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21 Feb 2014, 9:38 am

ape and pig genome won't mesh.



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21 Feb 2014, 10:05 am

Fnord wrote:
Where is the genetic data? Comparisons of both nuclear and mitochondrial DNA from humans to those of apes and pigs would suffice.

Merely pointing out physical and behavioral similarities is insufficient.

The genetic evidence is overwhelmingly against him. There are only 40 million base differences in the human and chimpanzee genomes, and most of those are point differences. Only three "new" genes appear in the human genome (in case anyone is wandering, that doesn't include altered genes). If we were the result of back crosses (his only discussion of the genetic evidence is saying "there isn't any, because of back crossing) then we'd expect to see loads of genes that are alien to chimpanzees.

In fact, he acknowledges the lack of evidence on page 2...

Quote:
First of all, the notion is set forward strictly as a hypothesis. No claim whatever is made that it is actually a fact that humans somehow arose through hybridization of pigs with chimpanzees.



naturalplastic
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21 Feb 2014, 10:37 am

Pigs didnt really have their humanlike traits until AFTER they were domesticated by fully evolved man in recent millenia anyway.

Wild boars are furry, and lean, and humans dont have boar tusks.



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23 Feb 2014, 2:11 pm

Quote:
I merely propose an evaluation of two distinct hypotheses by the usual scientific criterion: The hypothesis less consistent with available data should be rejected.


Very basic genetics tells you that you must match up chromosomes. Humans have 46 chromosomes, the other great apes have 48, pigs have 38: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_organisms_by_chromosome_count. Try to pair 38 chromosomes with 48, you don't end up with 46 functional chromosomes. I feel quite comfortable in rejecting that hypothesis.



Fogman
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23 Feb 2014, 3:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
ape and pig genome won't mesh.


Unless of course Ursine DNA is used as a catalyst to bind the two togeather. :P


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