1 in 4 Americans Believe the Sun Revolves Around the Earth

Page 6 of 8 [ 109 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next

AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,740
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

06 Mar 2014, 2:46 pm

simon_says wrote:
Quote:
However, who grants teachers the authority to teach in public schools? The public. If the public wants it any other way, the public will have it that way. If we woke up tomorrow under Shariah law, we'd all be learning Shariah law. You can't get around that.


It's the courts that keep creationism down, not elections. We aren't going to change the Constitution over this.

No, and I'm not suggesting that we do. And true about the courts.

But a single court never has the final say. It's funny, but in a different thread I pointed out that Plessy. v. Ferguson was overturned by Brown v. Board of Education. Given shifting social or cultural climates, it's logically possible, if unlikely, that we could get court appointees that wouldn't stand against making those kinds of changes. Or, how about this: We get a majority enough of support and state support to amend the constitution or get rid of it entirely?

I mean…look…it doesn't matter… The point is if that's the way people want it and they are willing to fight long and hard enough to make it happen, it will happen. Judges retire or die eventually. If enough people supported replacing them with judges who would consistently rule a certain way, the courts would support it no matter what, same as they do now ruling certain ways and effectively legislating from the bench.

On a side note, I'm generally displeased with a lot of court decisions as of late, see my above statement about legislating from the bench. But, seriously, you get enough people fired up about something long enough to outlast the courts, you'll get changes that are near impossible to roll back. And getting back to the topic, consider the implications that would have for the educational system.

THIS is why I go off on so many appeals to law. Right now science in the classroom has a distinct advantage in that it is still possible to have these kinds of discussions in the classroom (if a teacher so chose) without anyone getting into trouble. Your freedom FROM religion is on just as precarious ground as my freedom of religion. All it takes is a shift in fickle society, law, and justice and it's all over.



Vexcalibur
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,573

06 Mar 2014, 3:15 pm

91 wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Please show current figures. 2007 was a long time ago. US conservatives doubled down in promoting science illiteracy.

14-th is pretty low for the supposed largest economy.


Not really when you take into account the poverty in the United States..


1) The poor count up to the statistics.
2) Your country has that much poverty to alter these statistics? Man, that's a big bad thing about the US. Maybe try spending less in the military and prisons.


_________________
.


LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

06 Mar 2014, 3:53 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
Raptor wrote:
"The public" largely thinks that astrology is real science and that the government is concealing space aliens in Area 51. Do you want to take a vote about whether those should be taught in science and government classes, respectively?

You're right that it is not the place of a science teacher to say, 'there is no god,' or that 'the bible is wrong,' but it definitely isn't 'the public's' place to decide what is, or is not, appropriate for a science class.

Actually, that was me.d

Raptor wrote:
If ""the public" votes, pays taxes, and has kids in school then that makes them right, in a sense, even if they're dead wrong. I'll take the risk of "the public" in some places being wrong than to remove "the public" in general's voice on education.

this part was Raptor.



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

06 Mar 2014, 4:00 pm

AngelRho wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
and faith and religion should be taught at home. If you want your kids to make up their own minds (which seems to be the rallying call for many creationists), then let the kids learn science.

NO. Let the kids learn science, but give them a balanced offering. Keep religion out of the classroom dialogue if you feel so moved, or allow the kids to express themselves.

...if you as a teacher (just like I have) address something covered by religion, you HAVE to keep the discussion balanced and open to any number of relevant viewpoints or possibilities.

The place for discussing competing religious viewpoints is comparative religions class, not science class. Turning science class into comparative religions class does a disservice to both.



Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,985
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

06 Mar 2014, 4:11 pm

LKL wrote:
sonofghandi wrote:
Raptor wrote:
"The public" largely thinks that astrology is real science and that the government is concealing space aliens in Area 51. Do you want to take a vote about whether those should be taught in science and government classes, respectively?

You're right that it is not the place of a science teacher to say, 'there is no god,' or that 'the bible is wrong,' but it definitely isn't 'the public's' place to decide what is, or is not, appropriate for a science class.

Actually, that was me.d

Raptor wrote:
If ""the public" votes, pays taxes, and has kids in school then that makes them right, in a sense, even if they're dead wrong. I'll take the risk of "the public" in some places being wrong than to remove "the public" in general's voice on education.

this part was Raptor.


Yes, you can clearly tell by the signature condescension and thinly veiled hate speech what is mine and what is not. :P
I would think that sonofhandi, of all people, would recognize my handiwork. :D


_________________
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
- William F. Buckley


91
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

06 Mar 2014, 4:18 pm

LKL wrote:
91 wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
Please show current figures. 2007 was a long time ago. US conservatives doubled down in promoting science illiteracy.

14-th is pretty low for the supposed largest economy.


Not really when you take into account the poverty in the United States. If you have the money for a good high school in the US you will get a fantastic education and French thrown in. If you live in a poor area, you are in real trouble. The mean is not that bad but the range, I suspect, is pretty outrageous. I would have had a much better education if I had attended the same high schools as some of my friends in the states.

That's almost saying, 'sure, but the poor kids don't count.'
We need the brains of ALL of our kids, not just the rich ones, to be educated.


No... its exactly like saying that the United States has significant issues with poverty.... Did you even read my post? The last line is something I agree with completely but I am not sure why you are presenting it as a statement I would be in opposition to or dismissive of, when the last sentence of my post specifically says that I find the range of outcomes outrageous.

The US has a fantastic education system, at the top end (which is why I went to graduate school in the US and my friends who went to good prep schools were just better equipped than I was, coming from an Australian public school). At the bottom end, things are terrible, it is a consistent issue across many areas of the US and something people who live in place like my home country don't necessarily understand.


_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.


LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

06 Mar 2014, 4:33 pm

91, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but you put your foot in your mouth with this one. Your statement was '14th isn't all that bad because the low number is caused by poor students being miseducated, the rich kids are doing really well.' You softened it with the statement about the spread, but that doesn't mean that your initial statement was pretty heinous.

Our school system is failing half of its students, and that's not ok regardless of what the other half is doing.



91
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

06 Mar 2014, 5:40 pm

LKL wrote:
91, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but you put your foot in your mouth with this one. Your statement was '14th isn't all that bad because the low number is caused by poor students being miseducated, the rich kids are doing really well.' You softened it with the statement about the spread, but that doesn't mean that your initial statement was pretty heinous.


Bugger off. I am responsible for what I say, not for how someone might want to twist it. Go find some other straw man to attack.


_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.


LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 43
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,938

06 Mar 2014, 5:56 pm

Vexcalibur took it the same way, 91. I'm not twisting it; I accept that's not what you meant, but you misspoke.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

06 Mar 2014, 6:07 pm

khaoz wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Half of all Americans have an IQ of less than 100, 25% have an IQ in the 80s.

.


You mean that: half of all Americans are below average!

What shocking news!


It is not shocking to me to hear that so many Americans have an IQ in the 80 range. I am fortunate to report an IQ of 147, but the majority of my siblings are probably in the 65 range. When I was in the military, my superiors had IQs in the low 80's.. Peoples minds have been dumbed down from listening and watching Fox News, "reality tv", and the indoctrination process of religion, which will dumb any brain down to the consistency of bird seed. Easier to control and manipulate


If IQ has a Guassian Distribution than half of the test scores are below 100. What we really need is the standard deviation of the distribution.

ruveyn



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,740
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

06 Mar 2014, 6:08 pm

91 wrote:
LKL wrote:
91, maybe you didn't mean it that way, but you put your foot in your mouth with this one. Your statement was '14th isn't all that bad because the low number is caused by poor students being miseducated, the rich kids are doing really well.' You softened it with the statement about the spread, but that doesn't mean that your initial statement was pretty heinous.


Bugger off. I am responsible for what I say, not for how someone might want to twist it. Go find some other straw man to attack.

Glad to know it's not just me!



91
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,063
Location: Australia

06 Mar 2014, 6:15 pm

LKL wrote:
Vexcalibur took it the same way, 91. I'm not twisting it; I accept that's not what you meant, but you misspoke.


What, was Thomas81 booked? Vex did not even quote the full passage, just the one sentence, removed from context. I did not misspeak, I wrote earnestly and in good faith and condemned the reality that I was citing in the very next sentence.


_________________
Life is real ! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal ;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.


Kraichgauer
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,216
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.

06 Mar 2014, 7:38 pm

As proud American... I'm going to hide my head in a hole in the ground in shame.


_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 64
Gender: Male
Posts: 21,415
Location: temperate zone

06 Mar 2014, 8:24 pm

khaoz wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Half of all Americans have an IQ of less than 100, 25% have an IQ in the 80s.

.


You mean that: half of all Americans are below average!

What shocking news!


It is not shocking to me to hear that so many Americans have an IQ in the 80 range. I am fortunate to report an IQ of 147, but the majority of my siblings are probably in the 65 range. When I was in the military, my superiors had IQs in the low 80's.. Peoples minds have been dumbed down from listening and watching Fox News, "reality tv", and the indoctrination process of religion, which will dumb any brain down to the consistency of bird seed. Easier to control and manipulate


I was being sarcastic.
I cant tell whether you realize that or not.

My point was that he was saying (when you get to the ghist of it) is that 'half of all Americans are below average' which is a tautalogy (like saying that 'most bachelor's are single').

But if your siblings all have IQs in the '65 range' that would mean that when they were ten years old they all had the mentality of three year olds, and couldnt read nor write, and probably couldnt dress themselves. Are your siblings all THAT far gone?



InsertUsernameHere
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2014
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Posts: 17
Location: Milky Way Galaxy

06 Mar 2014, 11:54 pm

I'm curious how they'd get this information, seeing how there are millions of Ameicans, it be very hard to survey everyone. They might had used not a particularly bright group. I believe that this is false. :shameonyou: