why are feminist obsessed with Nice guys(TM)

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With the friend zoned thing. If you fancy someone and they just want be be your friend. That's just how it is.
You can't make them have feelings for you.

If they are leading you on and then rejecting you. They are not your friend at all. They are just using you as an ego boost. But most women don't do that. If they do that to you, you just leave them alone.

Bill I don't know a lot about feminism, but I do know feminists are not obsessed with Nice guys(TM). They are obsessed with gender equality.

You and other posters are getting a bit paranoid.

Being a nice guy is not something that is unattractive. If a nice guy is deemed unattractive it isn't because he is nice it's other reasons.

Most recently, the guy in question was a former marine who had done time in Iraq; he was also a very sweet man, who cooked for me and was able to intellectually challenge me in a way that few people are. Unfortunately, he needed more attention and affection than I, as an aspie, was able to give him. He quit returning my calls when I asked for a weekend to myself for an aikido seminar.
The guy before that was a successful attorney; I called it off because he had sour body odor.

In case you haven't noticed yet, you're bad at pretending to be psychic. Given that you're posting on a forum for people with asperger's, this should not come as a surprise to you.


How is it chauvinistic to expect men to clean up their own urine?


See what I wrote above regarding pretending to be psychic. I have never thought that all men are the same; I have never thought that all women are the same; I have never thought that all dogs or all spiders or all goldfish are the same. I have thought that they have some commonalities (some of those groups more than others), but I have literally never thought, "all men are the same," nor have I had the impulse to treat men as if they are interchangeable.
You may not believe it, but that does not prevent it from being true. Thankfully solipsism does not control reality.


No; I'm saying that men and women are perfectly capable of being friends, and that the men who use the term "friendzone" are the ones who don't believe this. Work on your reading comprehension, dear.

I have statistics to back me up. US Women, on average, commit more temporal resources to child-rearing than men do; in addition, US women's time tends to consist of more unpleasant duties like diaper changing, laundry, caring for the sick, etc. and men tend to get more pleasant duties like attending soccer games. If you have a problem with that statement, then you have a problem with the research, not with me.

Seriously, you need to think more rationally about this rather than jumping around emotionally and calling people names.


See above. Please cite where I called you a "male chauvinist."

Being either misogynist or misandrist are characteristics that would classify someone as a bad person, in my eyes.
Your problem is that you make up stuff in your own head and think that it actually represents what goes on in other people's heads.

Last edited by LKL on 08 Mar 2014, 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

If you're in a vulnerable position and a guy is coming on really strong in a very uncomfortable way and you're not sure if standing up for yourself would make things better or if it would just make things worse, then you may just try to let him down gently, say nice things while trying to duck away, etc.; unfortunately, he may choose to take the gentleness as leading him on.

Not a joke. You said, quoted above, that you have "...dealt with this crap {your}self." If you've dealt with women's emotions and thoughts yourself, that means that you were a woman; your profile now lists you as male. Therefore, transgender.
Now you're saying that you're not transgender? Weren't you, then, lying when you said that you've dealt with being a woman?



No, darling. A generalization is something different. That was citing actual behavior that I have seen on this forum, more than once.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... ralization


"Prejudice" is, literally, judging before evidence or experience. In this case, I am citing actual experience and cannot thus be considered "prejudiced" here.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... 1394259670

Even if that were true, it is a false dichotomy.
http://www.philosophy-index.com/logic/f ... ilemma.php
If you want to find some awful female stereotype to label me with, try "b***h" or "ice queen," as either would be more accurate.

I don't agree.

the majority of women who complain about nice guys are feminist.
far hardcore leftist.

Oh, I'm also a socialist (ie, leftist), but I'm far from being either as left as they come or as radically feminist as they come (which is a different thing than leftist).

The issue with guys who think that they are nice, but actually are not, is actually rather mainstream within the feminist community. Ask Aspie Otaku about radical feminists if you're curious - I think he researches their ideas more than I do.

In my opinion, radical feminists like so-called "nice guys" because they're easier to control. Guys that do everything to avoid confrontation won't challenge the feminist mindset of "women always rule, no matter what". Any man who dares to speak up is quickly thrown off the proverbial bus, because radical feminists are against women submitting to men for any reason. The intention of the man doesn't matter to them; if he won't be their slave, they'll do all in their power to crush him. Radical feminists are often described as "man-haters", and rightfully so; they think any man with a spine is out to manipulate them, so they try to do it first.

well,that don't surprise me. Your an Atheist,I would assume.
profile of anti-nice guy female:
feminist
liberal or leftist
atheist or non-religious

1- Most recently, the guy in question was a former marine who had done time in Iraq; he was also a very sweet man, who cooked for me and was able to intellectually challenge me in a way that few people are. Unfortunately, he needed more attention and affection than I, as an aspie, was able to give him. He quit returning my calls when I asked for a weekend to myself for an aikido seminar.
The guy before that was a successful attorney; I called it off because he had sour body odor.

Exactly: you were emotionaly dominant. The odor thing is discussible, but if you don't even get the basic points, I will not bother discussing this.

2- In case you haven't noticed yet, you're bad at pretending to be psychic. Given that you're posting on a forum for people with asperger's, this should not come as a surprise to you.

I'm not pretending to be psychic. Either another lame joke or ridiculous observation.

3- How is it chauvinistic to expect men to clean up their own urine?

It's the feeling I'm pointing out to: "Ugh! Men!" You said you felt that when you saw a toilet with pee. But what's going on is that you extrapolated the observation of your personal relationships in which you lived together with your partner to ALL men. That's prejudice.


4- See what I wrote above regarding pretending to be psychic. I have never thought that all men are the same; I have never thought that all women are the same; I have never thought that all dogs or all spiders or all goldfish are the same. I have thought that they have some commonalities (some of those groups more than others), but I have literally never thought, "all men are the same," nor have I had the impulse to treat men as if they are interchangeable.
You may not believe it, but that does not prevent it from being true. Thankfully solipsism does not control reality.

See the answers to points 2 and 3. If you still don't get it after this, I don't know what to say. It's hard to be more obvious, as long as you are willing to stop for a moment and consider what I'm saying with an objective attitude.

5- No; I'm saying that men and women are perfectly capable of being friends, and that the men who use the term "friendzone" are the ones who don't believe this. Work on your reading comprehension, dear.

No. Not only I have my comprehension skills sharp, I remember what you've said better than yourself. To be proven wrong, see the bolded sentence on point 11.

6- I have statistics to back me up. US Women, on average, commit more temporal resources to child-rearing than men do; in addition, US women's time tends to consist of more unpleasant duties like diaper changing, laundry, caring for the sick, etc. and men tend to get more pleasant duties like attending soccer games. If you have a problem with that statement, then you have a problem with the research, not with me.

I do not have a problem since I am openly misandrist and misogynist. You are the one who, like everyone else in this world, has these emotional impulses and still don't admit them.

7- Seriously, you need to think more rationally about this rather than jumping around emotionally and calling people names.

I'm not calling you a name that I'm not calling me. I am trying to establish, as a prior condition to examine the feminist hatred towards the reality of the friendzone, that everyone has prejudice in them. And that even though this is the case, people are not bad because of this; only if they act negatively out of the prejudice.

8- See above. Please cite where I called you a "male chauvinist."

You followed up on benificii's accusation of this. It could be the case that you dind't intend it, though. But I doubt it.

9- Being either misogynist or misandrist are characteristics that would classify someone as a bad person, in my eyes.
Your problem is that you make up stuff in your own head and think that it actually represents what goes on in other people's heads.

No. Absdolutely wrong. Basic self analysis mistake. Have you ever had the urge to punch someone? Out of all those times, how many did you act by punching? Would you say that everyone has that feeling a few times in life? If they do not act upon those feelings (or impulses, if you like) do you consider them bad people? Then are all people evil?

10- Not a joke. You said, quoted above, that you have "...dealt with this crap {your}self." If you've dealt with women's emotions and thoughts yourself, that means that you were a woman; your profile now lists you as male. Therefore, transgender.
Now you're saying that you're not transgender? Weren't you, then, lying when you said that you've dealt with being a woman?

Again I don't know if this is a continuation of a mildly amusing sarcasm or a really dim sequence of observations.

LKL wrote:

11- That's not how it's usually described. Men talk about 'being in the friendzone' when they do all kinds of mutually supportive 'friend' things with a given woman and expect her to sort of magically deduce that he's doing them because he wants to get into her pants, not because he's her friend... because, why else would a guy hang out with a gal, right? (that last bit is not, unfortunately, sarcasm; I've seen exactly that sentiment written on this forum more than once).

No, darling. A generalization is something different. That was citing actual behavior that I have seen on this forum, more than once.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... ralization

See point 5. Then decide what your opinion is (flip a coin, maybe) and then we can discuss.

12-"Prejudice" is, literally, judging before evidence or experience. In this case, I am citing actual experience and cannot thus be considered "prejudiced" here.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictiona ... 1394259670

You judged all men based on your own experience. If someone happened to be robbed 4 times in their lives and each robber was mexican, would you say that it wouldn't be prejudiced of this person to say that ALL mexicans are robbers?

13- Even if that were true, it is a false dichotomy.
http://www.philosophy-index.com/logic/f ... ilemma.php
If you want to find some awful female stereotype to label me with, try "b***h" or "ice queen," as either would be more accurate.

It's really frustrating when I use your own words to prove that you are wrong and you still don't see it. I was saying by your own standards, not by mine. As I said, you can be (and are) prejudiced and be a good person.

13- I don't agree.

You have much to learn.

Your right I do and it makes me sick! Its twisted to the point of extreme hatred and bigotry towards men! Go to Tumblr if you don't believe me. Take the femithiest for example, who advocates the castration of all males! Or Andrea Dworkin or Valarie Solanas etc. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzF-Q_ZEDg[/youtube] These same kinds of feminists or should i call these types Femnazis or femnazitards advocate sexism bigotry and vilification towards ALL men based on the actions of the few and blame all men for everything and totally ignore the equality thing.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_5P2WwBxs8[/youtube]They deny misandry exists they think its ok to be sexist towards men and scoff at the idea of men being victims of anything.

that's not a nice guy, that's a carpet.

Actually, I wasn't referring to you, but feel free to take that shoe and wear it if it fits.

My, what diverse opinions here.

The majority of women that complain about men in general are feminists.

Really why would they care about nice guys? They wouldn't care about genuine nice guys. What threat are they??
Guys that pretend to be nice maybe a threat. But I mean they may just see them as annoying. Maybe they are doing a bit of male bashing, but that's the most if anything.

Those links you posted are feminists responding to the nice guy thing. They are not attacking nice guys. They didn't start it.

What? I wasn't dominant wrt. either guy. Neither guy was dominant over me. It is possible to have equal romantic relationships with people, just like it's possible to have friendships between men and women, contrary to what you seem to think.

Yes, you are. You keep on trying to tell me what is going on in my own head, and being flat-out wrong about it.

That would make sense only if women were equally likely to leave urine on the seat as men are, which they are not.

see above. Men are more likely to leave urine on the seat than women are. Some moreso than others, but in general, based both on my personal experience and that of pretty much any woman or man I've ever talked to, men are vastly more likely to leave urine on the toilet than women. That is experience, not prejudice. Note the "pre" in the word prejudice.


dude, you're the one who needs to stop and consider, just for a moment, that maybe other people's brains are neither exactly like yours nor exactly how you imagine them to be.



I was paraphrasing. I was describing statements that I have seen here on this forum many times - which I made clear in the parentheses.



What emotional impulses?


Please state which page of the thread, and where on the page, I supposedly did this.


I have trained in aikido for 14 years. I've punched all kinds of people in the dojo, and been punched myself. I've also kicked in a front door, thrown objects and made holes in other doors, and kicked a hole in my bedroom wall. I have gone berserk in fights with my brother.
If I had ever deliberately hurt someone, though, I would be a bad person. If I could not judge people as individuals, I would be a bad person.
As for evil, that's an entirely different concept.


Were you lying when you said that you have personally dealt with the emotions and thoughts of being a woman? Yes?

judging based on experience is post-judice, not pre-judice. By definition. I would not say that an n of 4 was statistically significant, no, but I've known considerably more than 4 men in my life. Also, what "judgement" is it, exactly, that you think that I have made about "all men," other than that they're more likely to pee on the toilet seat and not clean it up?

Darling, I differentiated "Nice Guys(tm)" from nice guys. I never said that they were the only two choices.

That may be the case, but I frankly don't think that you have either the brains or the experience to teach me anything.

If you had read the posts I made, you would know that I say that the shoe fits. Was that supposed to put me in a bad spot? What I'm saying is that everyone is prejudiced against all groups, including their own. So I'm also a female chauvinist. Maybe that makes you happy, somehow.