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Can freedom work with humanity?

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Lostathome
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19 Mar 2014, 6:07 pm

Apologies for the terrible wording.

Simple enough. I've come to wonder whether a benevelant dictatorship is the best course for humanity. So many choose immorality. They choose to kill people for such petty reasons. Humanity as a whole cannot be trusted with freedom. I wish they could. I wish recent pieces of progress, so long in the making, like gay marriage legalisation sweeping america, were shining examples of a better future to come.

But the ukraine is on fire, UK politicians continue to screw over those who cannot defend themselves, scum walk our streets and not only are they more welcome than anyone who dares show individuality, but they practically own the goddamn place. It needs to end. Our democracy is a joke in any case. The bastards in charge have taken all the power for themselves, a dictatorship by any other name.

Thing is someone has to rule. Someone has to enforce morality without becoming immorality themselves. God certainly isn't doing anything about it.

Can humanity be trusted with freedom?



Stannis
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19 Mar 2014, 6:19 pm

Lostathome wrote:
Apologies for the terrible wording.

Simple enough. I've come to wonder whether a benevelant dictatorship is the best course for humanity. So many choose immorality. They choose to kill people for such petty reasons. Humanity as a whole cannot be trusted with freedom. I wish they could. I wish recent pieces of progress, so long in the making, like gay marriage legalisation sweeping america, were shining examples of a better future to come.

But the ukraine is on fire, UK politicians continue to screw over those who cannot defend themselves, scum walk our streets and not only are they more welcome than anyone who dares show individuality, but they practically own the goddamn place. It needs to end. Our democracy is a joke in any case. The bastards in charge have taken all the power for themselves, a dictatorship by any other name.

Thing is someone has to rule. Someone has to enforce morality without becoming immorality themselves. God certainly isn't doing anything about it.

Can humanity be trusted with freedom?


There are certain conditions which tend to give rise to a moral and empathetic population. All humans have within them the capacity for good and evil, and it's a simple enough task to promote the conditions which would tend to bring out the good in people. We have a pretty good idea of what those conditions are e.g: lift people out of poverty, give them access to education and fair and non-exploitative employment, and try to alleviate some of the unnecessary stresses of life such as the high cost of education, housing, and healthcare. Do this, and people will mellow out and be kinder.

Often people act like pricks because someone somewhere has deliberately created an environment to promote that outcome (i.e Economic-Neo-liberals).



Last edited by Stannis on 19 Mar 2014, 9:24 pm, edited 9 times in total.

luanqibazao
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19 Mar 2014, 6:29 pm

Unless you have some other species in mind, your theoretical dictator is also a human being. So he's going to have the same failings and limitations as the rest of us.

If you believe that a human being is not qualified to run his own life, how the hell is any human qualified to run the lives of others?



Magneto
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19 Mar 2014, 6:57 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Unless you have some other species in mind, your theoretical dictator is also a human being. So he's going to have the same failings and limitations as the rest of us.

If you believe that a human being is not qualified to run his own life, how the hell is any human qualified to run the lives of others?


Plagiarist. I was going to say that... damn time travel.

If people have a 60% chance of messing up and ruining their lives, then freedom means (near enough) 100% chance of 60% of peoples lives being messed up. A dictatorship, however, means there's a 60% chance of 100% of lives being messed up.

I don't think most people can handle freedom. However, that's an argument for more freedom, not less, because, as luangibazao points out, if someone can't handle their own life, they certainly can't handle someone elses.



Lostathome
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20 Mar 2014, 12:01 am

Magneto wrote:
luanqibazao wrote:
Unless you have some other species in mind, your theoretical dictator is also a human being. So he's going to have the same failings and limitations as the rest of us.

If you believe that a human being is not qualified to run his own life, how the hell is any human qualified to run the lives of others?


Plagiarist. I was going to say that... damn time travel.

If people have a 60% chance of messing up and ruining their lives, then freedom means (near enough) 100% chance of 60% of peoples lives being messed up. A dictatorship, however, means there's a 60% chance of 100% of lives being messed up.

I don't think most people can handle freedom. However, that's an argument for more freedom, not less, because, as luangibazao points out, if someone can't handle their own life, they certainly can't handle someone elses.
Exactly. We need something that doesn't have humanity's flaws to rule. An AI is the first thing to come to mind, though popular sci fi warns against it.

But in a free society, the person who rules is the person who cons the public into believing they're any different from the same scum that infests the houses of parliament. And the public is powerless to do anything but wait for the next election and hope it doesn't happen again. Certainly, the worthless bastards won't face punishment for their crimes, and it should be a crime. How should it not be? Lying to an entire nation in order to attain power you couldn't possibly deserve.

Perhaps someone simply needs to watch the watchmen? An authority above the government, whose job is as simple as punishing those who become corrupt. It's been proven time and time again, fear is the only thing that keeps our politicians under control.



Magneto
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20 Mar 2014, 7:44 am

Who watches those who watch the ones who are watching the watchmen who watch?

Mutually observant courts, with a free market in setting one up, following a standard law.



Stannis
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21 Mar 2014, 12:27 am

As they say, great powers do what they will, and minor powers do what they must. For politicians of minor powers who regard their national interests as sovereign, and if this too often comes into conflict with the will of the major power; well, supposing they weather the propaganda onslaught, and the coup attempts; one way or another they're likely to find themselves in the ground before too long.

On those rare occasions when minor powers put their national interests ahead of the demands of the major power, they seldom get the domestic support they deserve due to ubiquity of the major powers' media holdings.

In other words; you can't entirely blame politicians for selling our their national interest. Who wants to be a martyr?