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GinBlossoms
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24 Mar 2014, 6:10 pm

So I am doubting my faith in God. He's just a man in the sky with a complicated philosophy. Big deal. I'm sick of thinking about him finally. Why? He screwed the world over, especially since 9/11 (did he kill himself that day or go away or something?), a lot of bad things happened in the world. The afterlife Heaven is sometimes just as ridiculous as the afterlife of Hell. I want to go to neither. I'm told to be thankful, but how can I be thankful when we depend on a job market to survive (which craps now), our current administration in the White House (I wish we can make conservative ideas more popular again, they're only unpopular because people made them that way). Sometimes, I hate God, and I hate death. I'm very furious now. Why can't he make things go back to where they were after 9/11?



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25 Mar 2014, 1:18 am

You might start by divorcing the concept of the biblical Yahweh and "god". Yahweh is a ridiculous figure. He's just another storm god.

The ancient near eastern gods Baal Hadad, Yahweh and Marduk all fought the sea dragon. These are sky and storm gods who impose order on the sea. After slaying his sea dragon, Marduk divides this Tiamat to form the world. Yahweh divides Tehom or Tehomot. Judaism softened the theme and put the actual sea dragon combat in Psalms. But at the end of days Yahweh-Christ fights the sea dragon again with his mighty sword and afterward the Earth is reformed and there is no sea. It's an old story of chaos fighting order. There are a lot of references to it in the bible.

It's part of the tradition that scholars call the Combat Myth or the Chaoskampf and it's in a dozen or more cultures.



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25 Mar 2014, 4:57 am

GinBlossoms wrote:
So I am doubting my faith in God. He's just a man in the sky with a complicated philosophy. Big deal. I'm sick of thinking about him finally. Why? He screwed the world over, especially since 9/11 (did he kill himself that day or go away or something?), a lot of bad things happened in the world. The afterlife Heaven is sometimes just as ridiculous as the afterlife of Hell. I want to go to neither. I'm told to be thankful, but how can I be thankful when we depend on a job market to survive (which craps now), our current administration in the White House (I wish we can make conservative ideas more popular again, they're only unpopular because people made them that way). Sometimes, I hate God, and I hate death. I'm very furious now. Why can't he make things go back to where they were after 9/11?


Hey.

Good for you.

But you know, the thing about gratefulness has a lot of wisdom in it. You don't have to be grateful to god. If he exists he is not good natured, imo. But you can be grateful for what you have. Or, from another perspective, you can learn to realy apreciate what you have. Do you have food? Do you have clean water? Do you have shelter? Do you have clothes? Do you have internet? Internet! Do you have people who love you and you love them? Did you have access to education until the 12th grade?

These are things we all take for granted. We had the right to them like everyone else in our country. But sometimes it's important to do these questions in our heads to remind ourselves that we are luckier than half of the world's population. That a lot of our misery comes from wanting more and more and not ever being satisfied with what we already have. Enjoy what you have _ while you have it.

Maybe this will give you a chuckle: watch the youtube video with the title "Louis CK - Louie - God is like a sh**ty girlfriend" (without the **, of course; i can't post it because of the vulgar language)



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25 Mar 2014, 5:21 am

He makes me sick too hes an as*hole and a pervert! But then I realize hes not real and I feel so much better! GOD DOESN'T EXIST!


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GinBlossoms
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28 Mar 2014, 7:45 pm

Saying "God gave us free will" is now like saying that people have a right to shout "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. Do you agree?



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28 Mar 2014, 8:03 pm

If there is a god, 9/11 is a tiny mark on his copybook. It barely registers next to the other things he has allowed to happen. 3,000 deaths is a tenth of the low estimate of the number of people who died on the day Fat Man fell on Nagasaki. The Boxing Day tsunami killed 230,000 people. Up to 10 million people died in the Holocaust, over 73 million died in World War II, and Spanish flu killed 50-100 million in 1918. This is before we get to the "background evil" we've all come to accept, the children dying of cancer or malnutrition, waterbourne diseases in the third world, gang violence, drone strikes, and so forth.



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28 Mar 2014, 8:58 pm

Forget 9/11 - look at WWII - Hitler's actions, Stalin's liquidations for the 'greater good', and then there's Mao making both Hitler and Stalin look like amateurs.

I think the structure that seems far more cogent to me - there's a bit of a chain, a hierarchy, and for as much as the bible likes to rail on about an angry and vengeful god (with that nature we would have seen him every ten years or less) - the core of the universe is far more likely almost deistic in nature but communicates down chains. It ensures our optimal free will just that....well.....we're loaded both with the old theistic religions and as of the 20th century we've taken on the secular religions - ie. the utopian 'isms' taking their place that lead to so much bloodshed around that point. Main point - anytime you think you have an idea that needs to be shoved down other people's throats for the greater good, especially if any means are justified by the ends - it's operating on the same ugly frame and chassy.



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29 Mar 2014, 4:37 am

The_Walrus wrote:
If there is a god, 9/11 is a tiny mark on his copybook. It barely registers next to the other things he has allowed to happen. 3,000 deaths is a tenth of the low estimate of the number of people who died on the day Fat Man fell on Nagasaki. The Boxing Day tsunami killed 230,000 people. Up to 10 million people died in the Holocaust, over 73 million died in World War II, and Spanish flu killed 50-100 million in 1918. This is before we get to the "background evil" we've all come to accept, the children dying of cancer or malnutrition, waterbourne diseases in the third world, gang violence, drone strikes, and so forth.


True. If he exists he is a really impressive psychopath. I like the epithet Paul Erdös gave him: the Supreme Fascist.



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29 Mar 2014, 11:04 am

Well..here's the thing..there IS NO ESCAPE..potentially not even death..as we are too small to understand the whole of reality...

But here's the other thing..honestly.. the secrets of life..are open now..and available to folks who seek..as we have freedom of information...

The TRUTH IS ..THE GNOSTIC TRUTHS REVEALED LONG AGO..THROUGH REAL MYSTICS LIKE THE HUMAN JESUS..ARE AVAILABLE FOR FULL PERUSAL...

The myths of the bible(S) are only parables to teach moral lessons..and some that we understand are ridiculous for the purpose of culture as how WE see IT now...IN LIVING A BALANCED LIFE...

But universal truths once we find them....NEVER CHANGE..AS PER THE WORD UNIVERSAL ..AS IS NOW..WHEN WE SEEK IT..FIND IT ..REALIZE IT..AND PUT IT TO USE..FOR HUMAN BLISS...NOW!

AND SURE I COULD WRITE A NOVEL..TO TELL YA ALL THE DETAILS OF HOW I ENOY BLISS EVERY SECOND OF EVERY NOW FOREVERMORE NOW...

BUT It COULD BE meaningless to ya..and probably not worth your time or my time...

but i WILL TELL YA THIS...

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE FOR THOSE WHO NEVER GIVE UP ...

AND.. WELL IF YA EVER FIND IT..I AM 'FAIRLY' SURE THAT A LIFE WITHOUT DESIRE...FOR THINGS YA DO NOT HAVE..WITHOUT ILLUSORY FEARS..WITHOUT HATE..JEALOUSY..AND ALL THE OTHER CON-SOCIAL EMOTIONS...
WILL BE A BETTER REALITY FOR YA...

AND OH MY GOD..there is the force of limitless energy..that even a person like me that had none..5 years ago...
can enjoy incredibly at any age..NOW..even like me approaching 54 and more....

HA! i have seen threadS on this very site..with folks saying i don't wanna live to 50 cause it won't be worth the weakness of life at that point...

HA!
I am stronger... faster..more intelligent and more caring and even more attractive to the opposite sex than ever before reaching age 54 and i can prove IT too...

When at least one human makes the journey to bliss...and stays there NOW!

NO matter who the frig it is..there IS HOPE for the

rest of the 'tribe' too...

It's just about living NOW..and living in BLISS that IS possible...

But without WILL to make it tHERE..IT simply cannot HAPPEN!

BUT SEEK AND YA MY FIND IT..YET..

BUT NEVER GIVE UP...

IF I HAD GIVEN UP AT 47...

I WOULD STILL BE

IN HUMAN HELL..NOW..

INSTEAD OF REAL HUMAN HEAVEN...

NOW..!

SAME SH** JESUS SAID..

JUST ANOTHER VEHICLE OR VESSEL..OR MYTH..

TO ATTEMPT TO GET THE POINT OF THE
REALITY..THE POTENTIAL OF BLISS..

ACROSS..TO ANOTHER..BEING..FOR
FULL BEING..
HUMAN...

THE POTENTIAL IS TRUE..
THE REALITY
IS
HARDER...MUCH HARDER...

BUT WORTH EVERY EFFORT.
IF
YA
ARRIVE
IN BLISS..AND
STAY THERE
NOW!
FOREVERMORENOW!
WITH NO HUMAN BEING..EVER.. POTENTIALLY TAKING IT FROM YA...
NOW!
THE SECURITY..THE FORCE OF WHAT CAN BE DESCRIBED AS GOD
IN YA..
FOREVERMORENOW1!


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29 Mar 2014, 11:57 am

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The myths of the bible(S) are only parables to teach moral lessons..and some that we understand are ridiculous for the purpose of culture as how WE see IT now...IN LIVING A BALANCED LIFE


But you've invented your own religion. There isn't much anyone can say about that.

There are Christian apologists who'll admit that Genesis contains repurposed mythology from the era. It's hard to deny it. But at what point do its tales become real? If Genesis is myth then what is the Jesus tradition even about? There is no original sin to forgive, let alone a line of earthly Jewish King Arthurs (David's line) to reestablish. They lost a few games of king of the hill 2,000-2,600 years ago. Let it go.

You can believe in gods without all that baggage.



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29 Mar 2014, 12:51 pm

GinBlossoms wrote:
So I am doubting my faith in God. He's just a man in the sky with a complicated philosophy. Big deal. I'm sick of thinking about him finally. Why? He screwed the world over, especially since 9/11 (did he kill himself that day or go away or something?), a lot of bad things happened in the world....


Don't take this the wrong way, but you really know nothing about the hows or whys behind why things happen the way they do.

You are setting forth from the false premise that God micromanages every event on Earth and directly makes them happen.

Got gave man the ability to make choices. To avoid providing incontrovertible proof of His existence, God does not intervene in every event in human events, and when He does act, God often acts in ways to conceal His influence.

Man is not enslaved to mindlessly obey God. It is man's choice to obey or rebel.

Our world is largely the product of our choices. God's Word is clear about where things are headed and why. God knows what will happen before it has happened.

Blaming him for the choices we make is foolishness.



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29 Mar 2014, 9:51 pm

I cannot be angry with a deity that doesn't exist. I may as well be angry with Zeus, Odin, sprites, and banshees. I don't profess any "faith" or religion.



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29 Mar 2014, 10:20 pm

simon_says wrote:
Quote:
The myths of the bible(S) are only parables to teach moral lessons..and some that we understand are ridiculous for the purpose of culture as how WE see IT now...IN LIVING A BALANCED LIFE


But you've invented your own religion. There isn't much anyone can say about that.

There are Christian apologists who'll admit that Genesis contains repurposed mythology from the era. It's hard to deny it. But at what point do its tales become real? If Genesis is myth then what is the Jesus tradition even about? There is no original sin to forgive, let alone a line of earthly Jewish King Arthurs (David's line) to reestablish. They lost a few games of king of the hill 2,000-2,600 years ago. Let it go.

You can believe in gods without all that baggage.


Well..i certainly have not invented any religion but as a social scientist..including anthropologist i do understand the reasoning behind the folks who did create religions...

It is a necessary cultural tool for overall human survival ..a bonding tool..for cooperation of the tribe...

I do not believe in any anthropomorphic GOD..i believe in a GOD of higher energy...

And i utilize that energy..every second of every day...

But as i know NOW.. i did not have access to it..through much of my life...it's a pretty safe bet..that many other folks..do not have what i understand as GOD as a force in their life....maybe never did ..and maybe never will...

At least in this lifetime..and with the huge power and energy...AND BLISS..I RECEIVE FROM THIS FORCE THAT I DESCRIBE AS GOD..THAT there will never be words in the English language as far as i know NOW...to adequately describe this FORCE of GOD...

It's sad...and i wish more than anything i could help other folks find IT....

But that's a hard thing to do...i know that more than ever..after witnessing the words i see folks use on this site..in complete separation..from what i personally understand as GOD....that it could reasonably be a LOST CAUSE....but i do not give up...as i KNOW WHAT BLISS IS...IN ACTUAL EXPERIENCE..NOW.


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29 Mar 2014, 11:37 pm

GinBlossoms wrote:
So I am doubting my faith in God. He's just a man in the sky with a complicated philosophy. Big deal. I'm sick of thinking about him finally. Why? He screwed the world over, especially since 9/11 (did he kill himself that day or go away or something?), a lot of bad things happened in the world. The afterlife Heaven is sometimes just as ridiculous as the afterlife of Hell. I want to go to neither. I'm told to be thankful, but how can I be thankful when we depend on a job market to survive (which craps now), our current administration in the White House (I wish we can make conservative ideas more popular again, they're only unpopular because people made them that way). Sometimes, I hate God, and I hate death. I'm very furious now. Why can't he make things go back to where they were after 9/11?
God loves all people, including you, but He is also a gentleman. He will not force Himself or His ways on anyone who does not want Him, which is why the Earth's become so terrible. Heaven is total perfection, a far cry from the wrecked planet we now live on. People often bring up cruelties and such, but those events actually prove the existence and need for a higher standard, not the lack of one. After all, no sane person would argue a speed limit doesn't exist just because some choose to break it...and the same is true with spiritual concepts.


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30 Mar 2014, 12:39 am

The world isn't as terrible as many Christians think it is. In many ways it has improved. Lifespans have increased. Our children in America no longer die of smallpox, diphtheria, polio, or measles. Medical knowledge doubles every five years. Other parts of the world are thriving such as China. China used to have periodic famines. Now they feed themselves. Yes, there are many problems, but there always have been.
I am disturbed by the view of the world by Christians. It's evil. It's corrupt. It's ruled by Satan. This particular worldview is not helpful nor is it true. The promise of a perfect afterlife is questionable because no one has actually seen it nor can it be proven to exist. It isn't incumbent upon me to prove the existence of heaven because I am not making that claim. This gentlemanly God apparently had no problem drowning people during Noah's flood. The gentlemanly God also seems to have no problem with the judgements according to Revelation. However, I have no reason to believe in a global flood, the Tribulation, the Rapture, and the second coming of Jesus. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Faith alone does not welcome questioning and reasoning. Rather, it leads to religious dogma and unprovable beliefs.
After the Sandyhook massacre some prominent Christians claimed that the shooting happened because God had been banned from the public schools. Because he is a gentlemen, he couldn't force his way back into the schools. Seriously? It was acceptable to allow little children and their teachers to die a horrible death? I say that this cruel deity is not a gentleman. He is psychopath.
I don't really care what other people believe. I'm not concerned if there are people who think their are gods living atop Mt. Olympus. I don't really care if people believe in UFOs. This is America. People are free to have any beliefs no matter how irrational they can be. However, when people try to force their beliefs on others and threaten them with a myriad of fiery hells, then I have a problem with them.
The world is neither totally depraved nor is it a paradise. A sober, realistic assessment of the world allows one to envision solutions and improvements. To simply dismiss this world in favor of an eternal paradise does humanity no favors.