God makes me sick!
Nobody created light or water. Hydrogen is a basic element formed shortly after the big bang consisting of one proton and one electron. Oxygen is formed during the nuclear fires of stars and propelled into the universe along with all other elements when stars die and go supernova. The compound water is formed from hydrogen and oxygen fusing together. Visible light is just a narrow range of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the human eye typically produced by the transition of electrons from higher to lower energy levels within atoms. Neither light nor water is made by a magical sky fairy.
The universe began around 13.8 billion years ago as a consequence of the big bang, so what? Your final statement is meaningless.
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I've left WP indefinitely.
Moviefan2k4, your ignorance and misunderstanding of the actual scientific evidence concerning the Biblical flood is amazing.
Your sources have LIED to you and you are gullible enough to swallow their lies. Basically, every argument you are putting up has already been thoroughly debunked.
Go ahead and wallow in your ignorance and go ahead continuing to spread misinformation and lies about this. I know I am not the only one on this forum who gets tired of continually pointing out how WRONG you are about so many things. The difference between your opinion and mine is that mine is supported by much evidence and not falsified by any while yours is falsified by much evidence and not supported by any. That is a rather big difference, don't you think?
Most people, given the choice of two contrary opinions where the evidence is so overwhelmingly one-sided would have no difficulty choosing which one is more likely to be true.
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"When you ride over sharps, you get flats!"--The Bicycling Guitarist, May 13, 2008
You are free to say that but that doesn't make it true.
We know this branch of the universe wasn't eternal into the past but if this universe is just one branch of a multiverse, as most inflationary models predict, then we have another issue to deal with. Whether the multiverse is eternal backwards and forwards or whether there are even higher level constructs. The news about the new evidence for inflation a few weeks ago also gave a boost to the prospects for a multiverse. There is no certainty yet but I'm comfortable living with that.
From a purely scientific standpoint, imagine what a global flood would do. Millions of people, animals, and objects would be crushed almost instantly by the weight of water and dirt, which would then increase the temperature around said locations, causing fossilization in a very fast timespan. The weight also would crack tectonic plates, causing them to shift and buckle against each other. Huge areas of land would be eroded like crazy, forming large trenches and spillways. Does any of that sound familiar?
Well, a human cannot torture and murder but the supreme all-loving being of the universe can. Well, thank you for holding me to a higher moral standard than god. I apreciate the compliment to me. It doesn't look good on you though, but hey...
techstepgenr8tion
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Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
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Posts: 24,182
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
A lot of NDE'ers claim that when they leave their bodies, even if watching domestic abuse continuing to rack up on their dying bodies, they feel cozy and even naively bubbly like "Wow, that was a fun ride!".
That's one of the things that used to disturb me a lot, ie. that any questions that we had about the morality of this experiment or even taking our own pain, thinking of people who've suffered things we couldn't imagine (add the standards Hitler/Stalin/Mao/the Mongols), multiply all of that by billions of lives on the headcount and we'd still be hug-bombed silly by the cosmic energy to the point that it'd almost resemble a form of instant drugging or brain-washing by way of euphoria. To me that almost seemed as wrong as the story of throwing 80-90% of souls eternally in the furnace for spotty reasoning. Either "I'll do what I want and you'll burn if you don't follow me" or "I'll overdose you with love till you can't remember" seemed like an utter violation of individual autonomy.
Anymore I get the impression that (assuming the continuity of consciousness) its significantly more complex logic AND event structure than what we can keep in front of us on the examining table, that the nature of pain and suffering in the world is far more mathematical, and that it's being worked out by our collective choices century by century, and that every time we come down and get hit with a wall of affliction its due to the weighted average of either a) things we've done to others b) aspects of our energy grid that we haven't perfected or c) both.
One of the hardest things in theism is finding a satisfactory answer as to "If this is the case, what am I here to do?" or simply "What's my necessity?". As an atheist if an answer can't be arrived at on that level one can shrug their shoulders and just go for plan b - palliation. It's difficult to do that as a theist just because if you're thrown out to the palliation point the question of "Why am I here?" tends to just burn at you all the more.
In theory if God could solve all problems there's a signal that God specifically chose unsolved problems for the development of It's individual meditations or smaller selves (ie. us) to solve. The only clue I can come up with that suggests how all this could shake out - its the suggestion that we're immortal, always have been, always will be, and that this really is in comparison such an infinitely small quantity of time that it's rendered utterly irrelevant on the eternal scale. Clearly our being here is relevant and enough is invested in our continuing to be here but I can't even imagine how eternal beings would quantify/qualify 'this', our experience on Earth. That's where my own understanding ends up getting sent out into theory and beyond my own ability to examine. This world sees enough energetic phenomena to make several mountain chains under the rug we try to throw over it, however very few of those phenomena really give us the answers we really wish we had.
There is not enough water to flood the earth completely, not by far. How about Odin's promise?
All Praise Odin. Exiler of the ice Giants. LOL!
Rainbows are caused by the refraction of light through rain drops, splitting the white light into its component colours. Rainbows aren't created by a god, unicorns or my little pony.
Slight correction. Nyan cat creates rainbows. She poops them out of her butt while she flies.
Flood waters covered the highest mountains? Does that include Mt. Everest? Let's see. Everest is 29,029 ft above sea level. Climbers of the mountain routinely use supplemental oxygen, and the cold is intense. Pleural edema is a serious risk. Are you seriously suggesting the the Ark floated above 29,000 feet?
Wooden ships are notoriously leaky even with meticulous sealing. Did Noah have effective pumps?
Were did all the water come from? A water column suspended in the atmosphere is not possible. To suspend so much water would require a high atmospheric pressure. Such a pressure would actually make oxygen poisonous to all living creatures.
Fountains from the deep? Where? At what depth? Water less than a mile down is heating to the boiling point. Noah and family would have been parboiled.
The entire flood myth is either an incredible series of miracles or never happened. Which is the simpler scenario: a huge amount of miracles or the flood is only a fanciful story? Noah's flood cannot be considered a historical event because it contains unverifieable supernatural events. History has to be objective in order to be valid.
Science has flatly contradicted a global flood. Which will I believe? Science or a fanciful book that features a talking snake, magic trees, a talking donkey, giants, man eating fishes, and meals provided by birds? I go with science.
No, no, no. He's not saying magical waters appeared. That would be silly. He's saying the ground was magically leveled, So all the sea floors came up and the mountains went down. Far more reasonable.
On a serious note the guy can believe what he wants but if he has to believe it I think he's better off just saying, "a miracle happened and I can't explain it" rather than trying to repeat the word salad of creationists who really don't explain things anyway.
I wish you (and Ken Ham, alike) would understand how easily that arguement could go both ways
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If Jesus died for my sins, then I should sin as much as possible, so he didn't die for nothing.
Nobody created light or water. Hydrogen is a basic element formed shortly after the big bang consisting of one proton and one electron. Oxygen is formed during the nuclear fires of stars and propelled into the universe along with all other elements when stars die and go supernova. The compound water is formed from hydrogen and oxygen fusing together. Visible light is just a narrow range of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the human eye typically produced by the transition of electrons from higher to lower energy levels within atoms. Neither light nor water is made by a magical sky fairy.
The universe began around 13.8 billion years ago as a consequence of the big bang, so what? Your final statement is meaningless.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9izVu_TtAE[/youtube]
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEK6WtHxNfw[/youtube]
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L7VTdzuY7Y[/youtube]
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQFUpOOINd8[/youtube]There is no god there never will be there are no unicorns or skyfairies or magic or my little pony in real life this is reality! Santa clause isnt real neither is the easter bunny nor the sandman or jack frost or the tooth fairy!
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCo6BVPGDh0[/youtube] God creats the world but didnt know it was round! Epic fail!! !
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
DentArthurDent
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia
Nobody created light or water. Hydrogen is a basic element formed shortly after the big bang consisting of one proton and one electron. Oxygen is formed during the nuclear fires of stars and propelled into the universe along with all other elements when stars die and go supernova. The compound water is formed from hydrogen and oxygen fusing together. Visible light is just a narrow range of electromagnetic radiation that is visible to the human eye typically produced by the transition of electrons from higher to lower energy levels within atoms. Neither light nor water is made by a magical sky fairy.
The universe began around 13.8 billion years ago as a consequence of the big bang, so what? Your final statement is meaningless.
Tallyman, despite you advising me that spending time and effort trying to educate or at least challenge people like Moviefan was a waste of energy, I see you cannot leave this s**t alone, nor should you.
Moviefan, it would appear is wantonly foolish, wilfully ignorant, and a complete and utter waste of energy with regard to trying to discuss anything natural with him.
Remember who we are trying to educate, this is the person who in "The Haven" of all places, commanded someone (with what was potentially quite a severe psychological issue) to "get down on their knees and pray to the lord to remove the demon" or words to that effect.
Moviefan is determined to spend the most improbable gift in the known universe, life, investing in the chase for another one. I have no issue with that, its his choice after all. Or is it? Is he guilty of the same vile fraud towards the young and impressionable as others did to him? Judging by his Youtube posts, quite possibly.
So the question is, should we all ignore the life altering/destroying nonsense that people like this constantly push onto others, or do we confront them, and challenge them to defend their beliefs in rational terms whenever they pop up? Yes we should.
Some (generally those positing pseudobabble) find challenging Faith as offensive and tantamount to bullying, it is not. All we asked from these people is to explain their beliefs WITHOUT misrepresenting the known facts. Faith may have its place in society (I suspect we would be better off without it) but this should not mean the likes of MF,LJ, Nambo et al should have free reign to discuss creation, Noah, and Macroevolution vs Microevolution as if it was anything more than fantasy.
Once again Moviefan and all the other YEC's if you have credible information regarding these events lets have an honest debate.
_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams
"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx
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