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MDD123
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11 Apr 2014, 3:25 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
It seems like Feminists are always angry esspecially at men and sometimes for no reason. Is this true? If you respond angry then that means its true feminists are always angry! Its not fun being angry all the time!


Guys tend to set a high bar on the way women look, and a low bar on what they should actually achieve. If I was a woman, I would resent the hell out of that status quo.


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NobodyKnows
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11 Apr 2014, 4:56 pm

MDD123 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
It seems like Feminists are always angry esspecially at men and sometimes for no reason. Is this true? If you respond angry then that means its true feminists are always angry! Its not fun being angry all the time!


Guys tend to set a high bar on the way women look, and a low bar on what they should actually achieve. If I was a woman, I would resent the hell out of that status quo.


As I've said elsewhere, I don't agree. Taken (mostly) from another thread:

'* I raced bicycles, so I know what it's like to maintain a spooky-low weight. Riders' skin gets translucent because they lose so much subcutaneous fat.

* Comparing male and female models, there are only two areas where girls have higher standards: teeth and facial wrinkles. (The dental requirements are a US thing. British actresses sometimes have very crooked teeth.)

* Male underwear and swimsuit models have as low a body fat as the girls (probably lower) and much more muscle. It's hard to maintain muscle mass while losing that much weight because your body metabolizes muscle when it senses a food shortage.

* Hairline isn't as symbolic of youth and vitality for women; I see lots of female models with very receded hairlines.

* I've shaved my legs. It's easy, and girls can wear leggings or pants if they break out. There's not a lot that I can do when I break out after shaving my face.'

When I was racing, I had to be able to put out 400 watts, which is about what a good college football player can dish out against an instrumented tackling dummy. I had to do it semi-sustained. They can only do it for a few seconds. I weighed 160 pounds. They weigh 250-300. I had to push against a 3-5:1 mechanical disadvantage. (Bicycle drivetrains are geared up. The "low" gear still pushes the bike about 3.5 inches for every inch that your foot moves, and it goes up to almost 10:1 on the high end.)

Girls do prefer men who have extremely good physique. I sometimes get away with more than I should because of that :D Part of the problem is that a lot of gals like to 'marry up.' It's also true that really attractive gals get more NSA attention.

I have seen at least one really cruel article lately, but that was in a Hollywood gossip magazine. There wasn't a byline, so I don't know if it was a man or a woman writing it. I'd guess that it was a girl because it focused on "flaws" that most guys really don't care much about.



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11 Apr 2014, 5:00 pm

starvingartist wrote:
some of us (female feminists) do care about circumcision--i am personally against it (for males and females). in fact, when my mother was pregnant with me she did a tour of the maternity ward of the hospital and the nurses showed her where they did the circumcision on baby boys. my mother was horrified and asked what paperwork she would need to fill out so that if her baby was born a boy, he would not automatically be circumcised after birth because my mother felt it was wrong and unnecessary. the nurses all looked at her like she was mad and said "it's just what's done."

Misslizard wrote:
I have a son,and I did not have him circumcised.If he wants to do that it should be his choice,not mine.


I appreciate both of your positions quite a lot. Thank you.



MDD123
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11 Apr 2014, 6:33 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
As I've said elsewhere, I don't agree. Taken (mostly) from another thread:

'* I raced bicycles, so I know what it's like to maintain a spooky-low weight. Riders' skin gets translucent because they lose so much subcutaneous fat.

* Comparing male and female models, there are only two areas where girls have higher standards: teeth and facial wrinkles. (The dental requirements are a US thing. British actresses sometimes have very crooked teeth.)

* Male underwear and swimsuit models have as low a body fat as the girls (probably lower) and much more muscle. It's hard to maintain muscle mass while losing that much weight because your body metabolizes muscle when it senses a food shortage.

* Hairline isn't as symbolic of youth and vitality for women; I see lots of female models with very receded hairlines.

* I've shaved my legs. It's easy, and girls can wear leggings or pants if they break out. There's not a lot that I can do when I break out after shaving my face.'

When I was racing, I had to be able to put out 400 watts, which is about what a good college football player can dish out against an instrumented tackling dummy. I had to do it semi-sustained. They can only do it for a few seconds. I weighed 160 pounds. They weigh 250-300. I had to push against a 3-5:1 mechanical disadvantage. (Bicycle drivetrains are geared up. The "low" gear still pushes the bike about 3.5 inches for every inch that your foot moves, and it goes up to almost 10:1 on the high end.)

Girls do prefer men who have extremely good physique. I sometimes get away with more than I should because of that :D Part of the problem is that a lot of gals like to 'marry up.' It's also true that really attractive gals get more NSA attention.

I have seen at least one really cruel article lately, but that was in a Hollywood gossip magazine. There wasn't a byline, so I don't know if it was a man or a woman writing it. I'd guess that it was a girl because it focused on "flaws" that most guys really don't care much about.


We must be coming from different places. I have a maintained physique (6 pack) and am easily passed up by women. The guys who aren't passed up project more confidence or are at least more established financially.

I can't stress the confidence part enough; I've seen some very unappealing men get the time of day from very appealing women and confidence was the only thing these men had going for them.

Women have to go through more intensive grooming to be considered presentable to the public. One of my sisters absolutely didn't want to go through such a ritual (she was always more academic), and she had the worst time growing up. She eventually gave in and got a makeover (my thrifty parents were willing to pay a professional to get her a makeover).

Meanwhile, I haven't bought any clothes that weren't gym related in over two years and I still look presentable when I throw my old clothes on and go out in public.

I myself rate looks as one of the top 3 factors when I look for a potential mate (although my dating profile doesn't mention that). Not to say the female mate selection process doesn't frustrate and confuse me to no end (check out some of my love and dating posts). Its just that I don't do much better by them, and I can really sympathize with someone stuck in a status quo they don't like.


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11 Apr 2014, 7:26 pm

looks like some men got some "woman treatment" and instead of increased compassion they are just whining about stuff. way to go. good, shows feminism is working, that suddenly men have "problems the same, actually even greater, as women"! serves you right



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11 Apr 2014, 7:33 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
some of us (female feminists) do care about circumcision--i am personally against it (for males and females). in fact, when my mother was pregnant with me she did a tour of the maternity ward of the hospital and the nurses showed her where they did the circumcision on baby boys. my mother was horrified and asked what paperwork she would need to fill out so that if her baby was born a boy, he would not automatically be circumcised after birth because my mother felt it was wrong and unnecessary. the nurses all looked at her like she was mad and said "it's just what's done."

Misslizard wrote:
I have a son,and I did not have him circumcised.If he wants to do that it should be his choice,not mine.


I appreciate both of your positions quite a lot. Thank you.

You are welcome.My ex was born at home so never had it done.I think that's true for many home births in rural areas,at least here.
Once when driving thru Kansas I saw a huge billboard that said,"Stop circumcision,babies are born perfect."That's true.


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11 Apr 2014, 7:36 pm

TheGoggles wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
If you respond angry then that means its true feminists are always angry! Its not fun being angry all the time!


Then why don't you stop being angry about feminists for one single solitary second?


+1

Dude, it's getting old


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12 Apr 2014, 12:02 am

...Would apologizing for the patriarchy followed by chocolates and hugs work?


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12 Apr 2014, 12:06 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
...Would apologizing for the patriarchy followed by chocolates and hugs work?


No. You cannot undo what has been done. You can do something different from now on. That might help.



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12 Apr 2014, 12:10 am

leafplant wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
...Would apologizing for the patriarchy followed by chocolates and hugs work?


No. You cannot undo what has been done. You can do something different from now on. That might help.
:( I mean if apologizing and hugs don't work that means they lack the capacity to forgive.


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12 Apr 2014, 12:16 am

I mean im not against the movement I do tend to tease and play games with them at times and am sometimes curious of the whole thing. I mean I probably could join them and stuff and fight for womyns freedoms and such I dunno :shrug:.


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12 Apr 2014, 5:24 am

leafplant wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
...Would apologizing for the patriarchy followed by chocolates and hugs work?


No. You cannot undo what has been done. You can do something different from now on. That might help.
...But but wouldn't you want a hug and an apology? What if I offered a cute little bunny with floppy ears and a bell around its neck for reperations?


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12 Apr 2014, 1:52 pm

MDD123 wrote:
Women have to go through more intensive grooming to be considered presentable to the public. One of my sisters absolutely didn't want to go through such a ritual (she was always more academic), and she had the worst time growing up. She eventually gave in and got a makeover (my thrifty parents were willing to pay a professional to get her a makeover).


A lesbian friend of mine had at least three guys in our social circle romantically interested in her. She had a crew-cut and never wore makeup. She didn't try to make her skin look artificially youthful. Her figure was feminine, but she looked oddly masculine because she did absolutely no figure-accentuation. She didn't color-coordinate her clothes, or worry about how high or low her jeans rode, or whether the pant legs were hemmed a half-inch too long. She just dressed in clean, comfortable, practical self-respecting clothes, and took care of herself, for herself.

They weren't pathetic guys. They were good endurance athletes, smart, and all had good jobs as well as other dating prospects. There was no drama when they found out that she wasn't interested. Everybody stayed friends.

One thing that set her apart from almost every straight girl that I've known is that she wouldn't try to get under your skin or lean on you emotionally without a good reason. We were all friends, stuck up for each-other regularly, and went out to coffee together when one person in the group was feeling down. A lot of straight girls will tiptoe into more-than-friends territory, then get upset when guys take that as a possible invitation.

(That's partly a northern US thing. A teammate of mine was from Texas and often left the door open for guys to be emotionally closer to her. She did it in a fun, flirty way. It was never obligatory or masked as something else, and she always watched to see if you were into it.)

I can't comment on your sister's situation. Most girls that I know want things that most guys don't. (See above.) Even my own tomboy sister does.

Girls also aren't the only ones who have to preen. For example, even the "good" colleges that I looked at spent about 3/4 of class-time on things that make you look smart. When I was dating in my early 20s, one of the first filter questions that girls would ask when I chatted them up was "where did you go to school?" (It wasn't because they liked dating brainy guys, either.)

Not all nerdy girls want to date nerdy guys. There are also plenty of uncultured girls who want a high-class beau.



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12 Apr 2014, 3:10 pm

NobodyKnows wrote:
Not all nerdy girls want to date nerdy guys. There are also plenty of uncultured girls who want a high-class beau.


I'm butt-ugly, but I had a guy fall in love with me once.

He was in to me because I liked video games, comic books, and was in decent shape. Additionally, I wasn't put-off by his "odder" interests. He was a great guy, but, unfortunately, I'm asexual and could never hope to fulfill his physical or emotional needs.

In my experience, most people are average-looking and have average jobs. People with the best dating success are the ones who are content with other average people. I can't comment on the guy situation too much, but I think it would be to most guy's benefit to be a little more picky in terms of the personality and achievement of their potential female mates. Some of my buddies were quick to shack up with the first set of boobs that paid them any attention, and it turned out badly (I'm not victim-blaming or anything, just an observation).

As for physical appearance and grooming standards, I think the U.S. is kinda warped. I totally respect dudes who work their butt off at the gym, but, because I work out myself, I understand what goes into it, and I'd never judge a guy because he didn't have bulging muscles. I don't envy sexuals and the games they have to play. :?


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12 Apr 2014, 4:32 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I think it would be to most guy's benefit to be a little more picky in terms of the personality and achievement of their potential female mates. Some of my buddies were quick to shack up with the first set of boobs that paid them any attention, and it turned out badly.


You're right about that. It's also a skill, and it's probably easier for people whose opposite-sex parent was also an example of a good romantic partner. Just knowing what to look for takes some experience.



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13 Apr 2014, 12:01 am

...Im not the most political person here and I do get hyper and play games and get into mischief but...on a serious matter I think all genders should be equal and women should be acknowledged for their achievements and given equal pay and more women in office at least as many women as men and things will be more equal. Thats just me there and I am willing to give hugs too! Theres too much hatred in this world. :(


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