Japan announces intent to defy court order to stop "sci

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khaoz
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22 Apr 2014, 3:21 am

trollcatman wrote:
khaoz wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the welfare of the whales is all too often an afterthought at best. humans have a long ways to go before they can be termed "civilized."


I think we should transition to test tube meat. They already made hamburgers from muscle cells of a cow. In the long run this will be cheaper, more animal-friendly, and less draining on the environment. Those whales take a while to die, it seems an extremely cruel way to get our food. And they are social animals as well, the other whales will miss their relatives.


I think we need to transition toward a plant based diet. There should be plenty of plant sourced nutrition available to sustain human life if we would stop sourcing so much of our produce to the production and harvesting of animals for humans to consume as food. This is unsustainable.


There was an interesting tv show on yesterday, where they served a hamburger made from seaweed and insects or insect larvae, which are all low on the food chain (unlike cattle, tuna etc) so they would need less resources for them and it would be healthier too. I may post more later but I got to run.


It will be a huge task changing perception of human beings in the west to convince them to eat bug burgers



trollcatman
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22 Apr 2014, 3:26 am

^^^ There were 8 people at that table including the presenters, and I think they all ate the burgers. They looked pretty much like normal burgers except the bun had a slightly green color to it from the seaweed.



eric76
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22 Apr 2014, 3:31 am

trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
The whalers know that they are breaking the law. They shouldn't moan when some vigilantes show up and their ship gets bruised up a bit. That's like a burglar complaining that someone used excessive violence on him. Maybe the excessive violence was wrong, but I feel little sympathy.


That the Sea Shepherd nitwits think it is illegal is clear.

But is it really illegal? A moratorium was declared, but by the rules of the whaling commission, nations which objected to the moratorium are exempt from it.

Another moratorium was declared, but it does allow for research and so Japan only needs to make sure that their activity can qualify, no matter how slightly, as research. Furthermore, the moratorium itself may not be legal.

So it is far from clear that Japan is acting illegally by whaling in the area. It is quite possible that they are completely legal.


In march this year the International Court of Justice ruled that the scientific reseach excuse was BS and that Japanese whaling is now banned completely. Of course this does not give the Sea Shepherd idiots free reign to stop them.


If I understand it correctly, the court actually ruled that the level of scientific research done was not enough to justify the number of whales taken and that the ruling was more political than scientific. Of course, the moratorium itself was purely political as well with no serious concern about whether or not there was any scientific justification to stop the whaling.

Japan is perfectly free to change their research in order to justify taking more whales.

From the ruling:
Quote:
The Court finds that JARPA II can broadly be characterized as “scientific research”. It then examines whether its design and implementation are reasonable in relation to achieving the programme’s stated research objectives.

...

After an extensive examination of the determination of species-specific sample sizes, the Court notes that the evidence relating to JARPA II provides scant analysis and justification for the underlying decisions that generate the overall sample size, raising further concerns about whether the design of JARPA II is reasonable in relation to achieving its stated research objectives.

The Court also observes a significant gap between the JARPA II target sample sizes and the actual take. In the view of the Court, the gap between the target sample sizes for fin and humpback whales in the JARPA II Research Plan and the actual take of these two species undermines Japan’s argument that the objectives relating to ecosystem research and multi-species competition justify a larger target sample size for minke whales, as compared to that in JARPA.

...

Taken as a whole, the Court considers that JARPA II involves activities that can broadly be characterized as scientific research, but that “the evidence does not establish that the programme’s design and implementation are reasonable in relation to achieving its stated objectives”. The Court concludes that the special permits granted by Japan for the killing, taking and treating of whales in connection with JARPA II are not “for purposes of scientific research” pursuant to Article VIII, paragraph 1, of the Convention.



khaoz
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22 Apr 2014, 3:33 am

trollcatman wrote:
^^^ There were 8 people at that table including the presenters, and I think they all ate the burgers. They looked pretty much like normal burgers except the bun had a slightly green color to it from the seaweed.


Me stick to tofu and tempeh for now.



eric76
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22 Apr 2014, 3:34 am

khaoz wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the welfare of the whales is all too often an afterthought at best. humans have a long ways to go before they can be termed "civilized."


I think we should transition to test tube meat. They already made hamburgers from muscle cells of a cow. In the long run this will be cheaper, more animal-friendly, and less draining on the environment. Those whales take a while to die, it seems an extremely cruel way to get our food. And they are social animals as well, the other whales will miss their relatives.


I think we need to transition toward a plant based diet. There should be plenty of plant sourced nutrition available to sustain human life if we would stop sourcing so much of our produce to the production and harvesting of animals for humans to consume as food. This is unsustainable.


Do you realize that if we were to switch to a plant based diet, many animals would cease to have any value at all and a number of subspecies and variants would quickly become extinct.

Fortunately, for the animals as well as for humans, we have no dictator that can require us to adopt a plant based diet.



auntblabby
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22 Apr 2014, 11:59 am

I am perfectly willing to eat tube meat if it is available and affordable.



trollcatman
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22 Apr 2014, 12:14 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I am perfectly willing to eat tube meat if it is available and affordable.


It is already here, people have eaten test tube burgers: link
It is not yet available to the public, and probably pretty expensive. But when this is perfected meat will be much cheaper to produce. We'll still need a few cows around to take a biopsy from every once in a while (I think). Although horses might be more ethical, since their meat doesn't get worse with age. Thinking creepy now: you could eat your own meat if you do a biopsy on yourself and grow it so you know for certain what humans taste like.



auntblabby
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22 Apr 2014, 12:19 pm

trollcatman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I am perfectly willing to eat tube meat if it is available and affordable.


It is already here, people have eaten test tube burgers: link
It is not yet available to the public, and probably pretty expensive. But when this is perfected meat will be much cheaper to produce. We'll still need a few cows around to take a biopsy from every once in a while (I think). Although horses might be more ethical, since their meat doesn't get worse with age. Thinking creepy now: you could eat your own meat if you do a biopsy on yourself and grow it so you know for certain what humans taste like.

there was a guy who DID sample his own meat, I think from his arm.



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22 Apr 2014, 11:53 pm

If only farming whales like cows and pigs were a realistic option.



auntblabby
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22 Apr 2014, 11:55 pm

Yuzu wrote:
If only farming whales like cows and pigs were a realistic option.

we'd need 23rd century star trek technology to do such. I hope they don't become extinct before then.



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23 Apr 2014, 12:09 am

auntblabby wrote:
Yuzu wrote:
If only farming whales like cows and pigs were a realistic option.

we'd need 23rd century star trek technology to do such. I hope they don't become extinct before then.

People will be able to enjoy whale burgers and whale on the barbie and slow-cooked pulled whale in the future? Yum.



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23 Apr 2014, 12:52 am

Personally, I think Japan should just stop whaling all together so that those sea shepherd as*holes can take their pirate business elsewhere. Where are they gonna go if they couldn't target "the evil Japanese"? Would people enjoy the show and support them the same if they were attacking Norwegians? The whole thing reeks of racism if you ask me.



eric76
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23 Apr 2014, 7:34 am

Yuzu wrote:
Personally, I think Japan should just stop whaling all together so that those sea shepherd as*holes can take their pirate business elsewhere. Where are they gonna go if they couldn't target "the evil Japanese"? Would people enjoy the show and support them the same if they were attacking Norwegians? The whole thing reeks of racism if you ask me.


They would never run out of targets because they would just find some other "outrage", at least not until the entire planet was vegan.



trollcatman
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23 Apr 2014, 7:52 am

Yuzu wrote:
Personally, I think Japan should just stop whaling all together so that those sea shepherd as*holes can take their pirate business elsewhere. Where are they gonna go if they couldn't target "the evil Japanese"? Would people enjoy the show and support them the same if they were attacking Norwegians? The whole thing reeks of racism if you ask me.


Hm, I had not thought of this at all. But yeah, the Norwegians, Icelanders and Faraoese also do whaling. And some native North Americans. I think the Sea Shepher people crave attention, they will find something to protest.



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23 Apr 2014, 8:57 am

Yuzu wrote:
Personally, I think Japan should just stop whaling all together so that those sea shepherd as*holes can take their pirate business elsewhere. Where are they gonna go if they couldn't target "the evil Japanese"? Would people enjoy the show and support them the same if they were attacking Norwegians?


Yes, they have done that and I enjoy and support it. I see nothing racist about their efforts to stop illegal poaching.


Nordkapp-class offshore patrol vessel



Max000
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23 Apr 2014, 9:42 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNvIM2W9Aw[/youtube]