Japan announces intent to defy court order to stop "sci

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eric76
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21 Apr 2014, 11:42 pm

When Whale Wars was first broadcast, there were some discussions of their actions on a number of maritime forums for professional seamen. The very broad was consensus was that the Sea Shepherds demonstrated extraordinarily poor skills in seamanship and had no business being there because of their lack of skill.

As for the Sea Shepherds, a few years ago they acquired a cannon and Watson ordered it fired at an unarmed fishing boat. Fortunately, the crew was less insane than their "captain" and did not fire at the boat.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQfBMYxbNz8

Watson should be incarcerated in prison for life for that order.



trollcatman
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21 Apr 2014, 11:45 pm

Yeah, Watson is an as*hole, but this is what you get when people get away with everything. You can't expect people to stand idly by while everything goes to s**t.



eric76
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22 Apr 2014, 12:26 am

trollcatman wrote:
Yeah, Watson is an as*hole, but this is what you get when people get away with everything. You can't expect people to stand idly by while everything goes to sh**.


If Watson and the Sea Shepherds feel free to break the law whenever they wish, then they have no legitimate claim to having the moral high ground.



trollcatman
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22 Apr 2014, 12:52 am

eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
Yeah, Watson is an as*hole, but this is what you get when people get away with everything. You can't expect people to stand idly by while everything goes to sh**.


If Watson and the Sea Shepherds feel free to break the law whenever they wish, then they have no legitimate claim to having the moral high ground.


Breaking the law to stop others breaking the law. I don't define high ground by whether people are breaking laws, but by what laws they are breaking. Someone smoking a joint is breaking the law but not harming anyone. Someone who is pushing "multi-level marketing schemes" may technically not be breaking the law but he is trying to screw people out of their money. Both the Sea Shepherd people and the whalers are assholes, but I think the whalers are doing more damage right now. Not that I consider myself to have the moral high ground, I have eaten eel and tuna as well while knowing they are endangered.



eric76
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22 Apr 2014, 1:17 am

trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
Yeah, Watson is an as*hole, but this is what you get when people get away with everything. You can't expect people to stand idly by while everything goes to sh**.


If Watson and the Sea Shepherds feel free to break the law whenever they wish, then they have no legitimate claim to having the moral high ground.


Breaking the law to stop others breaking the law.


That doesn't matter.

Quote:
Not that I consider myself to have the moral high ground, I have eaten eel and tuna as well while knowing they are endangered.
It is quite true that tluefin tuna is endangered, but it is highly unlikely that you have eaten any of it unless you specifically sought it out.



trollcatman
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22 Apr 2014, 1:30 am

The tuna can I have here has some sustainable fishery label on it, and it's skipjack tuna. About breaking laws: sometimes breaking the law can be the right thing to do. Sometimes following or enforcing laws can be the wrong thing to do.



eric76
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22 Apr 2014, 1:44 am

trollcatman wrote:
The tuna can I have here has some sustainable fishery label on it, and it's skipjack tuna. About breaking laws: sometimes breaking the law can be the right thing to do. Sometimes following or enforcing laws can be the wrong thing to do.


Sure, there are exceptions, but illegal actions that endanger the safety of everyone concerned and that destroys others property are no exceptions.



trollcatman
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22 Apr 2014, 1:54 am

The whalers know that they are breaking the law. They shouldn't moan when some vigilantes show up and their ship gets bruised up a bit. That's like a burglar complaining that someone used excessive violence on him. Maybe the excessive violence was wrong, but I feel little sympathy.



eric76
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22 Apr 2014, 2:01 am

trollcatman wrote:
The whalers know that they are breaking the law. They shouldn't moan when some vigilantes show up and their ship gets bruised up a bit. That's like a burglar complaining that someone used excessive violence on him. Maybe the excessive violence was wrong, but I feel little sympathy.


That the Sea Shepherd nitwits think it is illegal is clear.

But is it really illegal? A moratorium was declared, but by the rules of the whaling commission, nations which objected to the moratorium are exempt from it.

Another moratorium was declared, but it does allow for research and so Japan only needs to make sure that their activity can qualify, no matter how slightly, as research. Furthermore, the moratorium itself may not be legal.

So it is far from clear that Japan is acting illegally by whaling in the area. It is quite possible that they are completely legal.



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22 Apr 2014, 2:04 am

the welfare of the whales is all too often an afterthought at best. humans have a long ways to go before they can be termed "civilized."



trollcatman
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22 Apr 2014, 2:14 am

eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
The whalers know that they are breaking the law. They shouldn't moan when some vigilantes show up and their ship gets bruised up a bit. That's like a burglar complaining that someone used excessive violence on him. Maybe the excessive violence was wrong, but I feel little sympathy.


That the Sea Shepherd nitwits think it is illegal is clear.

But is it really illegal? A moratorium was declared, but by the rules of the whaling commission, nations which objected to the moratorium are exempt from it.

Another moratorium was declared, but it does allow for research and so Japan only needs to make sure that their activity can qualify, no matter how slightly, as research. Furthermore, the moratorium itself may not be legal.

So it is far from clear that Japan is acting illegally by whaling in the area. It is quite possible that they are completely legal.


In march this year the International Court of Justice ruled that the scientific reseach excuse was bullshit and that Japanese whaling is now banned completely. Of course this does not give the Sea Shepherd idiots free reign to stop them.



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22 Apr 2014, 2:25 am

eric76 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
eric76 wrote:
I'm not that fond of the idea of whaling, but I'll side with Japan on this over eco-terrorists every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


But in this case the whalers are the eco-terrorists.


Only if you grossly redefine the term so that it means something much different than its accepted meaning.

An eco-terrorist is someone who use violence against people or property in furtherance of an ecological agenda. They are criminals who should be incarcerated.


Was not one of the crew captured and help by Japanese authorities for a period? Or was that just contrived drama to draw an audience to the show. I think most "Reality" tv is scripted for effect anyway.



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22 Apr 2014, 2:58 am

auntblabby wrote:
the welfare of the whales is all too often an afterthought at best. humans have a long ways to go before they can be termed "civilized."


I think we should transition to test tube meat. They already made hamburgers from muscle cells of a cow. In the long run this will be cheaper, more animal-friendly, and less draining on the environment. Those whales take a while to die, it seems an extremely cruel way to get our food. And they are social animals as well, the other whales will miss their relatives.



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22 Apr 2014, 3:08 am

trollcatman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the welfare of the whales is all too often an afterthought at best. humans have a long ways to go before they can be termed "civilized."


I think we should transition to test tube meat. They already made hamburgers from muscle cells of a cow. In the long run this will be cheaper, more animal-friendly, and less draining on the environment. Those whales take a while to die, it seems an extremely cruel way to get our food. And they are social animals as well, the other whales will miss their relatives.


I think we need to transition toward a plant based diet. There should be plenty of plant sourced nutrition available to sustain human life if we would stop sourcing so much of our produce to the production and harvesting of animals for humans to consume as food. This is unsustainable.



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22 Apr 2014, 3:16 am

khaoz wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the welfare of the whales is all too often an afterthought at best. humans have a long ways to go before they can be termed "civilized."


I think we should transition to test tube meat. They already made hamburgers from muscle cells of a cow. In the long run this will be cheaper, more animal-friendly, and less draining on the environment. Those whales take a while to die, it seems an extremely cruel way to get our food. And they are social animals as well, the other whales will miss their relatives.


I think we need to transition toward a plant based diet. There should be plenty of plant sourced nutrition available to sustain human life if we would stop sourcing so much of our produce to the production and harvesting of animals for humans to consume as food. This is unsustainable.


There was an interesting tv show on yesterday, where they served a hamburger made from seaweed and insects or insect larvae, which are all low on the food chain (unlike cattle, tuna etc) so they would need less resources for them and it would be healthier too. I may post more later but I got to run.