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Raptor
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17 May 2014, 8:34 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
Why is it that people want to boycott Israel, but not Iran, Venezuela, Belarus, or other countries with far worse human rights violations? Does not being jewish automatically cancel out bad deeds?

Israel is a mixed-economy, which means that a boycott will hurt the people before it hurts the politicians. The rise of antisemittism in the left-wing politics is despicable. Norway's largest Marxist party, has 193 entries on Israel, but only 20 on Iran, even though the latter is causing far more headaches for the UN.


That's pretty much what it boils down to; left wing anti-semitism.


It was European anti semites that concoted the Israel project in the first place.

The victors of WW2 wanted the Jews out of the way, and didn't want to have to give them sanctuary in their own countries. If anything the problem boils down to right wing anti semitism.

:roll:
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1024
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17 May 2014, 9:17 pm

chris5000 wrote:
when was the last time those country's bombed their neighbors


Pretty common response when those neighbors fire missiles at you.

And that image is just plain distasteful. Similar pictures don't mean similar events, Israel does not gas the people behind those fences.


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Kurgan
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17 May 2014, 9:36 pm

thomas81 wrote:
No, whether or not capitalism works is for another thread. Socialists hate Israel because of its track record in seizing the lands of Palestinians who have been there for centuries and brutalising those who dare to resist. If you are going to argue that Israel has a carte blanche in orchestrating whatever it likes because the Palestinians do not historically, have a government of their own then by this logic you acquit the persecutors of the Jews since beforehand the Jews had no government either.


Israel didn't seize any land. It was given to them by the country the land belonged to then, Great Britain.

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As for the idea that Palestine never existed, there are documents that prove the contrary:-
Image
Image


I didn't say that the name wasn't used. The Brits regarded Palestine as a part of Syria. Palestinian nationalism arose in the late 1960s.

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Almost none of those countries listed in the video pack the trading efficacy of Israel or Western nations anyway. In that respect he was grasping at straws. Moreover there is a litany of reasons other than its labelled national religion to oppose Israel. Abusing the anti semite card is just how its supporters shut down criticism.


I shouldn't dignify this with a statement, but many of the countries the video mentions are countries the US depend on for oil. If you don't care about human rights violations in other countries than Israel, then you are an antisemite. This souldn't even be up for debate.

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Anti semites have wanted Jews out of their countries since before the 20th century. Thats hardly news./quote]

Correct. 8 million jews were thrown out of their homes in muslim countries in 1948.

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It 'belongs' to them in the same way that Istanbul belongs to Italy because that is where the Romans built Constantinople.


The Romans built Constantinople on land area that had belonged to the Turkish people, just like the muslims built religious sites in Jerusalem after they had kicked the jews out in the early dark ages.

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Yes, such oppression...


Your point being? Iran has four times as many soldiers as Israel. Just like Israel, they had the right to defend themselves when Saddam Hussein attacked them, though.


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chris5000
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17 May 2014, 11:05 pm

1024 wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
when was the last time those country's bombed their neighbors


Pretty common response when those neighbors fire missiles at you.

And that image is just plain distasteful. Similar pictures don't mean similar events, Israel does not gas the people behind those fences.

they may not gas them but they do bomb them with chemical weapons

warning gore


Image



Tequila
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18 May 2014, 4:57 am

thomas81 wrote:
Image


Thank you for supporting British colonialism!

Not the sort of thing you hear every day from an Irish republican.

GSTQ NSE etc etc.



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18 May 2014, 5:00 am

1024 wrote:
And that image is just plain distasteful. Similar pictures don't mean similar events, Israel does not gas the people behind those fences.


Concentration camp Gaza:

http://www.israellycool.com/tag/concent ... camp-gaza/



thomas81
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18 May 2014, 7:46 am

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Image


Thank you for supporting British colonialism!

Not the sort of thing you hear every day from an Irish republican.

GSTQ NSE etc etc.


I was responding to Kurgan's claim that Palestine 'never existed'.

If we use the premise that Palestine 'never existed' because it never had its own consolidated government prior to the arrival of the zionists, then by the same logic, 'Ireland never existed' either.

SPOILER: I don't subscribe to that idea.

FYI: I am not an Irish republican. My stance on Irish sovereignty is based on pragmatism. I was loosely in favour of Irish unity during the celtic tiger. Not any more.


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thomas81
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18 May 2014, 7:57 am

Kurgan wrote:

Israel didn't seize any land. It was given to them by the country the land belonged to then, Great Britain.

Uh huh. Sure. Thats why Britain had to equip them with military hardware to complete the job, and when certain Israelis decided they wanted EVEN MORE land, the Irgun decided to start attacking British interests in the area.

Kurgan wrote:
I didn't say that the name wasn't used. The Brits regarded Palestine as a part of Syria. Palestinian nationalism arose in the late 1960s.

See my response to Tequila.


Kurgan wrote:
I shouldn't dignify this with a statement, but many of the countries the video mentions are countries the US depend on for oil. If you don't care about human rights violations in other countries than Israel, then you are an antisemite. This souldn't even be up for debate.

1- Whether or not those countries are engaging in human rights violations is largely a moot point, since almost no goods come from them. Its much harder not to buy Chinese since almost everything is assembled there. But even then, these countries lack the historical semantics of how Israel was formed. By buying Israeli, you legitimise the idea that it is fine for a large group to come in to a territory with dubious claims, and seize land off an indigenous group that has been there for centuries if not millenia on the back of religous claims. That is the problem.

2-It doesnt make you an anti-semite, particularly considering that a large margin of Jews also echo the same concerns.

Kurgan wrote:
Correct. 8 million jews were thrown out of their homes in muslim countries in 1948.

That timing was hardly a coincidence.
http://imeu.net/news/article001237.shtml#1
Kurgan wrote:

The Romans built Constantinople on land area that had belonged to the Turkish people, just like the muslims built religious sites in Jerusalem after they had kicked the jews out in the early dark ages.

Yet in secular terms, the Italians have an even stronger claim over Istanbul, since the entire raison d 'etre for Israel is based on the scrawlings of ancient zealots.
Kurgan wrote:


Your point being? Iran has four times as many soldiers as Israel. Just like Israel, they had the right to defend themselves when Saddam Hussein attacked them, though.


I don't know how well read you are on history (not too well based on your posts), but traditionally speaking countries with militaries that are half in power to their rivals are incapable of oppressing rivals equipped with militaries double in power.


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thomas81
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18 May 2014, 8:10 am

Tequila wrote:
1024 wrote:
And that image is just plain distasteful. Similar pictures don't mean similar events, Israel does not gas the people behind those fences.


Concentration camp Gaza:

http://www.israellycool.com/tag/concent ... camp-gaza/


Yes, life is all fine in Gaza until you have a pregnant wife you need to get to hospital or you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time near a wanted political figure.

http://www.unfpa.org/public/site/global/News/pid/310
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/j ... el-bombing

Israel and the United States seem to be the only two nations on Earth that think dropping bombs from an aircraft is an appropriate assasination method to kill an individual.


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18 May 2014, 8:56 am

http://www.policymic.com/articles/89443 ... this-chart


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thomas81
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18 May 2014, 9:40 am

thanks for that miss lizard +1 :thumleft:


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18 May 2014, 9:45 am

You're welcome.


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Kurgan
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18 May 2014, 11:06 am

thomas81 wrote:
If we use the premise that Palestine 'never existed' because it never had its own consolidated government prior to the arrival of the zionists, then by the same logic, 'Ireland never existed' either.


Ireland had a culture and several kings and chiefs long before Great Britain had anything to do with it.


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Kurgan
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18 May 2014, 11:09 am

chris5000 wrote:
1024 wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
when was the last time those country's bombed their neighbors


Pretty common response when those neighbors fire missiles at you.

And that image is just plain distasteful. Similar pictures don't mean similar events, Israel does not gas the people behind those fences.

they may not gas them but they do bomb them with chemical weapons

warning gore


Image


Aftermath of Hamas suicide bombing:

Image

Fajr-5 missiles similar to those Hamas have:

Image

Since the jews didn't do it, there's nothing serious about it.


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Kurgan
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18 May 2014, 11:14 am

thomas81 wrote:
Uh huh. Sure. Thats why Britain had to equip them with military hardware to complete the job, and when certain Israelis decided they wanted EVEN MORE land, the Irgun decided to start attacking British interests in the area.


They needed military equipment because Arab dictatorships were ready to attack any minute. Do us a favour and look other places than European tabloids for your information.


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1- Whether or not those countries are engaging in human rights violations is largely a moot point, since almost no goods come from them. Its much harder not to buy Chinese since almost everything is assembled there. But even then, these countries lack the historical semantics of how Israel was formed. By buying Israeli, you legitimise the idea that it is fine for a large group to come in to a territory with dubious claims, and seize land off an indigenous group that has been there for centuries if not millenia on the back of religous claims. That is the problem.


So in other words, a boycott of Israel is motivated by entirely selfish reasons. Why no boycott of Venezuela, where journalists mysteriously disappear?

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2-It doesnt make you an anti-semite, particularly considering that a large margin of Jews also echo the same concerns.


Noam Chomsky is not the emperor of the jews.

Quote:
That timing was hardly a coincidence.
http://imeu.net/news/article001237.shtml#1


Never claimed it was. It was another reason to give Israel back to the jews, though.

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Yet in secular terms, the Italians have an even stronger claim over Istanbul, since the entire raison d 'etre for Israel is based on the scrawlings of ancient zealots.


There's more than enough genetic and historical evidence for the jews being the original proprietors of Israel. The Romans, the Ottomans, and the Brits kicked them out, though--which there is also historical evidence for.

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I don't know how well read you are on history (not too well based on your posts), but traditionally speaking countries with militaries that are half in power to their rivals are incapable of oppressing rivals equipped with militaries double in power.


Iran has four times as many soldiers (and more likely to actually launch their nuclear weapons). You didn't counter my argument, which just further proves my point.


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