What if Obama forged his Birth Certificate?

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I would. It is relevant. We have rules for a reason. Either change them via the prescribed legal process, or follow them, but don't violate them.

As far as what would happen, we don't have much to go on. Obviously, he'd be kicked out of office, but the replacement (either via special election or the appointment of the VP) could just "ratify" everything he signed...meaning nothing would change other than the man being publicly disgraced for the largest public fraud in American history.

Absent ratification, everything not ratified could be challenged as invalid and have to be undone. It would give the person who takes over the ability to undo things now seen as a bad move, but there has to be the political movement to want to do that.

^I must have missed his stump speech on that one.

^That is a bit of a broad generalization. I'm fairly certain it was just dreamed up by those of the opposite political party as a way to instill distrust. I am equally certain that some (but not all, by any means) who believe it based in part on their inherit racism, but I think most believe it just because they believe every negative rumor about every Democrat, regardless of merit. You may also want to keep in mind that the Republicans definitely do not have a monopoly on this mentality.

It is in the news everyday for several years now.

Hard to believe you could miss it, besides all the flack he took for his executive orders regarding letting "undocumented" stay.

Obama is deporting more people than any other US president in history.



Source: http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2014/01/FT_DHS.png

And what american think about his Health Reform???

even if he is a liar and a cheater , claiming to be someone who in fact was not and could never would be .

Would law he signed would be null and void?

I heard about American legal doctrine called "de facto officer doctrine" that even is he wrongfully elected the laws he signed would still be valid
that makes sense to me, it's about avoid potential legal chaos.

Probably the person who had hoped to annul the law of universal health care would be inconsolable

By the way, I wonder why some American politicians , so loudly protesting against universal health care . In Europe all countries have universal health care program , can in my country, Poland , the National Health Service, founded by taxes and and from special tax that is added to paycheck is not the best quality, sometimes you have to wait a few months in the queue, to a specialist , but everyone has a chance , do not depend on whether citizen is poor or rich , but rich Polish can take advantage of a private medical practice, or buy additional medical insurance , but not everyone can afford it. America is a superpower , Americans earn much more than European and certainly more Poles , but I'm sure that among Americans, there are also people with low incomes who may be not afford private health insurance .

Sure, however, in press conferences, and through executive orders he has been pushing to legalize them, so no more non-criminal ones are deported. "Undocumented alien" is also known by some as an "undocumented democrat". He changed the deportation policy so these numbers are not as meaningful going forward.

June 2012 - Executive Order "Dream Act"

"Under the change, the Department of Homeland Security will no longer initiate the deportation of illegal immigrants who came to the United States before age 16, have lived here for at least five years, and are in school, are high school graduates or are military veterans in good standing. The immigrants must also be not more than 30 and have clean criminal records"

source, http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/16/us/us ... d=all&_r=0

First of all, the DREAM Act is only draft legislation that has not been approved by congress. Obama issued an executive order to stop deporting (not granting citizenship) those who met the incredibly specific requirements put forth in the most recent draft.
Even so, do you realize how incredibly limiting these criteria are? Let me re-write it to illustrate:

1. Must have come to the United States before th age of 15

AND

2. Must have lived in the United States for a minimum of 5 consecutive years

AND

3. Must be high school graduates (or GED)

AND

4. Spend 2 years either in an accredited college prgrom or 2 years military service

AND

5. Be under the age of 30

AND

6. Have a clean criminal record

AND (some you left out)

7. Not pose any kind of health risk

AND

8. Pass afull full security and background check by the Department of Homeland Security as well as state background checks

AND

9. Register for the Selective Service

AND

10. Must demonstrate the ability to read, write, and speak English and demonstrate knowledge and understanding of the fundamentals of the history, principles, and form of government of the United States.

AND

11. Must provide full and convincing of meeting all of these requirements

AND

12. Must maintain all of these standards for a period of 2 years in order to continue being exempt from deportation.

And just to clear up some persistent false beliefs about these undocumented people:
States are not required to provide.
They do not qualify for ANY federal benefits.
They are specifically exempted from all ACA benefits.
The DREAM Act would not provide anyone citizenship; they would still be required to obtain that the old fashioned way.
They are not eligible for college grants or loans from the federal government.
There is no such thing as an ?anchor baby.? While the child may be an American citizen if born here, the parents will still be deported (they have the option of leaving the child behind for adoption or taken their new American citizen out of the country with them).
Unlawful presence in the country is a CIVIL offense, not a criminal one.
Mexicans are also the largest group of lawful immigrants.
The Social Security Administration estimates that half to three-quarters of undocumented immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes, including $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security taxes for benefits they will never get back.
Crime rates between 1999 - 2006 were lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates. (Americas Majority Foundation - a conservative group).
The exponential growth of the spending on immigration enforcement and the doubling of border patrol agents has had little effect related to immigration rates (but does have the measurable effect of rapidly increasing government spending at a disturbing rate).

The "persistent false beliefs" seems directed towards me when all I said was that he passed the "Dream Act" executive order for fewer deportations.

Your above statistics are slanted. You leave out the negatives.

Not specifically at you; more a pre-emptive to anyone who wants to weigh in on the subject.



Which stats do you have issues with? I can provide the highs and lows for each topic; I usually cite numbers that fall somewhere in the middle.

My post was intended to show that the executive order (which is not the DREAM Act at all) only applies to a very tiny fraction of those here illegally and does nothing to reduce deportation in any significant way. It was symbolic pandering, nothing more.

Uh... I was talking about the birth certificate. And next time you bring up one race, I suggest you think about what you've just written before you post.

First, I am European/Native American, so I like that we are welcoming in "southern european/indians" from Mexico.

However, I still believe it hurts poor black people the most.

Four major objections I see people make:

1. Spanish is required in parts of the South West now for jobs, for functioning, for schools. Not knowing Spanish may make you are an outcast in those areas.

2. Welfare. Your statistics failed to mention that these people can collect on various welfare programs.

"Los Angeles County is on track to pay out roughly $650 million in welfare benefits to illegal alien parents in 2013, county officials said Monday".
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... n-parents/

This is just for the parents for a single county. Add in the cost of healthcare, schooling for the children as well as ESL (English as second language) training for the adults and children.

3. Because of poverty and non-English speaking, then "white flight" and "black flight" result as parents seek less crowded schools that are orientated for English speaking kids.

4. The IRS reports "undocumented people" cheating the IRS for "child credit" refunds.

"Millions of illegal immigrants are getting a bigger tax refund than you. Eyewitness News shows a massive tax loophole that provides billions of dollars in tax credits to undocumented workers "

http://www.wthr.com/story/17798210/tax- ... s-billions

A rare requirement outside of a border patrol, some hospitality jobs, very few teaching jobs, and a very very few medical jobs. Bilingual is a plus in many locations, but that has always been the case and always will be, no matter what the language. Immigrants speak their native tongue; their children are bilingual; their grandchildren can't speak to their grandparents.



The only thing they are entitled to is emergency healthcare. Your LA reference is payments made by the state of California based on its STATE laws, not federal (and the majority of that is estimated for things like police services and health care). If you want to look at the economic impact, I suggest you look up some of the reports from the Chamber of Commerce (link to one is down below), which finds that they improve the economy and contribute significantly more than they get.

And your citation of Glenn Beck's hack mag is probably not a good way to support your argument with any authenticity.



^This is not an effect of immigration, but of bigotry. But that is a whole different can of worms.



^not entirely accurate. An ITIN is only issued to someone who entered the country legally. This story is about those who stayed after their temporary student/worker visas expired.

Also throw in that any child claimed you must have paid half of the expenses of taking care of through the year as well as the fact that you must provide a valid SSN or ITIN for each one you are claiming. Now throw in the fact that ITINs associated with expired visas result in automatically informing the USCIS of their presence, leading to a substantial risk. Fraud and abuse are everywhere; trying to single out one group (which on a per capita is comparatively low), is problematic at best.
Also, you may want to use a better reference than a story based on what "a longtime tax consultant" said instead of an actual named person, and you should also be wary of using a story out of Indiana dealing with immigration (for some reason that state provides immigration information just as false and skewed as Mississippi and Arizona).

Here is a link to the US Chamber of Commerce discussing myths and facts on this issue (with a few parts quoted if you don't feel like reading the whole report):

https://www.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/documents/files/16793_ImmigrationMythFacts_OPT.pdf

Obama was born to an American female in Hawaii. That makes him a natural born citizen. End of question.

ruveyn

We still cool with you maintaining control of that side of the blue sphere,and I have control of this side?
Those FEMA camps will be handy to confine the republicans.The planet will will do better once we transport them to outpost #47589 on planet Emils.I think they will adapt nicely,a few may start to cannibalize each other,but that's just in their nature.

Hmmm.....We had someone a few years ago that wanted to put all the conservatives (or republicans) in camps. He also said they were poison and should be kept away from children, probably even their own. He told me specifically he wanted to tie me to a tree, shove a corn cob half-way up my ass, staple my eye lids open, and make me watch wile he smashed up all of my guns in front of me.