Elliott Rodger & Santa Barbara shootings

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So a lot of sources in the media are bigging up on the fact that he probably had Aspergers syndrome as a primary factor. This is possibly by pro gun sources to elay the idea that the prevalence of guns in america was a major factor. Also its the horrible mess you have when wealth and upper class entitlement meets the nice guy syndrome and easy access to firearms.

Would this massacre have happened in a more gun prohibitive country with all other factors being equal? Seems unlikely.

Guns didn't have anything to do with it either, come on now. It could of just as easily happened anywhere. He actually stabbed 3 of his victims to death before he went out and did the drive by, he was a sicko of the highest order. A true psychopath.

Yes,he was

By "pro gun sources", do you mean his parents, who are the ones who put his diagnosis out there?



He stabbed half of his victims, without the gun he'd probably has just run people down with his car.

You guys just refuse to admit that some people should not be permitted to own guns. YOu will make any and every excuse to evade that fact.

"oh, they will just use cars, or knives or hammers, or blah, blah, blah. And you keep on with this nonsense that Americans should just be allowed to own any gun they want, in whatever quantity just because that is how you interpret the 2nd Amendment. When are you going to start interpreting civility? Some people should never be allowed to own guns because some people feel so empowered by guns that just owning a gun will motivate them to do things like this, or worse. And there is no way to determine when, who, how and why someone is going to use a gun in this way, until its too late.

That does not mean we should not make an effort. You would rather children grow up in a militarized society instead of making the effort. Instead of making some small sacrifices you would rather live like uncivilized animals, even though you can observe that restrictions are making a big dent in gun violence in some societies. Even in those societies though, instead of admitting to some success, your insecurities and apathy lead you down the path of seeking out any small example of failure in their successes and you use those flaws to decide it is not even worth making an effort in America.

The biggest threat of violence in America comes from the insecurities of the "Far right extremist gun faction."

Make sure when you attack me now that you get the facts correct. I am not being anti-gun, and I am not attacking all "right- wing gun owners", but you people are so blind, insecure and paranoid I need to lay things out for you using some kind of 5yo hooked on phonics level explanation or you will lie and fabricate your interpretation of my response to fit your delusional world view.

SOME PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO OWN GUNS.

Not because them guns are bad, as someone who has no comprehension skills insists I am repeating.

Guns are just pieces of metal. But those pieces of metal make some people feel invincible.

THAT is the problem.

Khaoz, very few societies have the amount of guns that the USA does. That fact has to be considered. Also, yes some people should not own guns, but the systems we have in place already don't keep guns out of their hands. California has some of the strictest gun laws in America, you have to pass TWO background checks (one federal one state) and register the gun and the ammo. In addition, if you are placed in a psycho ward for a 72 hour hold, you cannot own guns for five years after. You are black flagged in the California background check system, which is a separate system from the federal one.

And yet California STILL has random shootings. Some guy bought gun parts off the internet and then used metalworking tools to build what he couldn't buy. He lived at home and somehow his dad missed him working with drills and saws in his bedroom. As for Rodger, he bought his guns legally. The cops were sent to his apt and determined that he was ok. Laws don't stop shootings. US had the second amendment for 200 years with few problems, and then suddenly everybody is shooting each other. The 2A is likely NOT the cause of these shootings, iow.

Find me one person on this forum that wants violent felons and the mentally ill to be allowed to own firearms. I'll wait.



Guns don't make people violent, violent people will use whatever is available them them, as is amply demonstrated by crime in countries with strict gun control, among other things.



Show me where I've made that argument.



So if you're so not anti gun, what's your solution, slick? You just said there's no way to know, and Elliot Rodgers owned his guns legally, despite California's extremely draconian gun laws.



Please stop putting words in my mouth.



I have a long running challenge on this board; show me one country where gun control demonstrably lowered violent crime, not just gun crime, but violent crime. I'll wait.



Really? Got a cite?



So you're not attacking us, but in the exact same sentence you call use blind, insecure, and paranoid, delusional, and illiterate...



Again, find me a person here who's saying everyone should be allowed guns.



Wow, you're just full of personal attacks tonight, aren't you. Goody.



I would say that the problem is that they make some people irrationally afraid, but then again, I am an expert on them.

He would have found another way. For instance, crashing his car containing a bunch of gasoline jugs into a crowded theater. Being realistic, what he did was not as bad as he could have done with a bomb or smoke producing incendiary device. Plus, he stabbed before he shot, so the knife was as deadly as the gun.

You cannot be shown what you do not want to see. Any fact that you do not agree with you interpret to meet your needs. I would say it is not up to you to decide whether. gun restrictions are effective in another country. You will never agree with that. It is up to the majority of the citizens of that specific country to make that determination.

You have one thing correct. They make some people irrationally afraid, which would be SOME people who own them who are afraid to peek their head out from their bra drawer unless they are strapped.

If you are making a reference to me, I am not afraid of guns. I respect guns. Some people mistake the respect for the gun as respect for themself, when they themself deserve no respect. They use a gun to demand respect. Those are the people who should never own a gun.

Even the community I live in, with the no guns allowed sign on the door, and the whole community knowing no guns are allowed and it is 90% females over the age of 65 who live here, still, no "bad person with a gun" tries to exploit this vulnerability. I picked this town, the VA homeless rep suggested the apartment community to me, so, before anyone goes there, I am not hiding behind anyone.

When I lived in the metropolis, I lived in the "hood" and went anywhere I wanted to go at anytime of the day or night I wanted to go.

would rather take my chances against someone with a knife any day of the week, than someone with a gun. That these guys allowed themselves to be killed with a knife I would say is their fault as much as the killer, for not being aware of their surroundings and allowing a loner to get that close to them. I would never allow anyone, especially a casual acquaintance, to enter my personal space. I would never allow myself to be conned into the apartment of a casual acquaintance in the first place. A lot of this has as much to do with age as anything else. Anytime you "want" something from another human being, you are endangering yourself in some way. Young people always "want" something, on some level.

You people and your gun issues, if someone really wanted to go on a rampage them not having a gun would be of little good, guns do not kill people do. truly, did you know you can make explosives out of table salts and sugars and oils? you may be going no way, but grab that chemistry book and learn something. you can even make explosives out of a simple pine tree. its all there just got to tare it down into its basics and then put it back together again. removing guns does nothing except make it harder for others to protect them selves when needed.

or....

http://dailydragon.dragoncon.org/dc2012 ... aked-kill/

You'd have to show me facts before I could do anything with them, but you haven't shown a single fact, all you do is rant about the NRA and make character attacks on gun owners. Not one study, not one statistic, not one fact. In fact, show me a time when you think I misinterpreted a fact, unless you're just pulling that accusation out of your ass as well.

firstly. you're blaming the victims for him killing them not cool
second, they were his roommates, they lived together, he could have stabbed them when they were asleep or snuck up on them.

there was a incident where a guy stood outside a store stabbing people as they walked by, is this there fault, should we suspect anyone standing in public of randomly start stabbing us?

personally I'd rather be shot then stabbed, much quicker and generally in and out with fmj. I'd rather not be that guy that got stabbed 40 times and was still alive so she then shot him. I mean dam.

You perceive what I say as character attacks. TGhat says something about how you view the world. It says nothing about anything I am doing. I am not attacking anyone. I could say you are attacking me if I wanted to go that route but I don't perceive things that way. You simply misrepresent my views. I continuously tell you I have owned guns, my family owns guns, I don't care about guns. I care about these mass killings that keep happening and if someone even dares to try to come up with some way to address the issue, we are "anti-gun," "gun haters." Why would I hate an inanimate object. No matter what I say or how I say it you guys keep implying I am anti-gun or hate guns.

I don't "hate" anything, and I try very hard not to even use that word to ever express my emotions. I dislike violence. I am tired of human suffering. When people lose their loved ones to violence like this it creates suffering. If they express this suffering publicly they are attacked, accused of trying to exploit community emotions, sometimes they are even threatened. Their suffering is exploited by groups who use the incident to make political attacks, calling the loss of their loved ones a "false flag" event.

I see no need for all of this gun violence. We have well over 275 million known guns floating around our society. If someone says something about how guns should be accounted for in some way, the cries immediately ring out about gun confiscation. When I say something needs to be done any idea I might bring up is going to be immediately attacked, criticized and denounced as "anti-gun" rhetoric. And all I see from the pro gun side of the argument is to have a more highly armed society. That, to me is apathy for human suffering. Progun groups talk about the violence in Chicago, and talk about Illinois strict gun regulations and use that as a claim that restricting or regulating is ineffective. Well, how can it be effective in one state when people from Illinois can drive right across the state line of Indiana and buy any gun they want. Yet progun groups consider that a rational argument. How can you address the issue of gun violence when gun advocate groups use any scenario as an attack on their rights. Or a potential attack? Yes, it is people who kill, but it would really help, IMO if there could be some accountability, or some level of restriction of access to guns, to some people, instead of this continuous and never ending state of excuses, "bad people will always get guns." Maybe so, but can't we try to do something to minimize that flow of guns? Can't we at least try, instead of just continuously throwing hands in the air and saying it will never work?

TRY, for CHRISTS sake. At least make an effort to compromise on SOMETHING, instead of viewing everything as a threat or an infringement. And stop referring to anyone who does care enough to try SOMETHING as being "anti-gun." How many guns do you or anyone else need? How much of this refusal to participate in a solution is just plain spite? I know I only need a certain number of spoons and forks in my drawer even though I have the right to own 25000 of each if I desire. How about people stop loading up on guns just because of spite, or because of political issues. Why is it always ME, Me, ME? Doesnt this society have enough guns to defend itself or hunt, or target shoot, or whatever? Why are people so determined to resist common sense regulations just because of plain old pride?

And stop fabricating all of this "they are coming to grab my guns" hysteria.

^

One, you've accused me of having a psychological disorder (because I break down your paragraphs...), of not caring about human life, of being paranoid, delusional, brainwashed by the gun industry, and those are just off the top of my head. If that's you "not attacking me", I'd hate to see what an actual attack looks like.

Two, it's you who's repeatedly misrepresented my views, as you clearly don't even know what they are, but have simply made assumptions that you're treating like gospel, while I'm going off the content of your posts. I don't care if you and your family owns guns, you post anti-gun post after anti-gun post, to the point where it constitutes spamming, which makes it pretty hard to take you seriously when you then claim to not be anti-gun. Every anti-gunner worth their salt prefaces their arguments with "I support the 2nd Amendment, but..." or "I don't want to take your guns away, but...", it's so common as to be a cliche in the gun rights community. The clear contempt with which you refer to us is a dead giveaway.

Three, if you'd bothered to actually read anything I've ever written on the subject, you'd know that I have made myriad proposals for combating violence in this country, from a guaranteed minimum income to ending the drug war to reforming the criminal justice system, all measures that would provably reduce violence in this country more than the gun control you champion, but you've got tunnel vision on the guns. Who's obsessed now?