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thomas81
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25 May 2014, 6:40 pm

Comparing abortion to Aktion T4 is possibly the stupidest, worst and most hysterical comparison I have ever heard.

Aktion T4 was a mechanised, organised effort by a state specifically hellbent on the eradication of genetic material and lives.

Abortion is a necessary function in protecting the bodilly autonomy of women.


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Moviefan2k4
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25 May 2014, 7:48 pm

Abortion involves the killing of a baby that's 100% genetically identical to a human adult. As such, its murder, regardless of what the courts say.


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25 May 2014, 7:50 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Abortion involves the killing of a baby that's 100% genetically identical to a human adult. As such, its murder, regardless of what the courts say.


my skin cells contain my entire genetic code--does that mean i'm mass-murdering every time i exfoliate? :roll:



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25 May 2014, 7:58 pm

Considering abortion as murder is like saying when a man masturbates is the genocde of 300 million people! Bible thumpers do what they can to dictate the lives of women and their choices! Abortion is a hard and touchy subject but its the womans choice whether she wants to abort or not! Religion and conservatards want a woman to give birth regardless if she is raped or incest and blame her for aborting that child as well? Thats totally fu**ed up! I support abortion Im sorry I had religious bible thumpers show up at my college with pictures of dead fetuses and s**t but in a split second me and others counter protested and said it is even more inhumane to force rape victims to give birth! Those bible thumping conservitards can take that bible and shove it up their arse! Although i am male and it is not my business what a woman wants to do with her body she should still have that right what to do with what she wants she is an independent human being she is nobodies property her body her choice! Naysayers can eat s**t!


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thomas81
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25 May 2014, 9:37 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Abortion involves the killing of a baby that's 100% genetically identical to a human adult. As such, its murder, regardless of what the courts say.


Ok, at what point does a baby become a baby? If you say its when a sperm meets the egg (since thats where the genetic material fuses) then consider this- Pretty much three quarters of fertilised eggs never reach the womb lining. That means by your logic, any sexually active woman that has ever disposed of a sanitary towel is a potential murderer.


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Jacoby
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25 May 2014, 10:26 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Comparing abortion to Aktion T4 is possibly the stupidest, worst and most hysterical comparison I have ever heard.

Aktion T4 was a mechanised, organised effort by a state specifically hellbent on the eradication of genetic material and lives.

Abortion is a necessary function in protecting the bodilly autonomy of women.


go back and read what walrus posted, he said "I'd quite happily go up to 12 months tbh. Being viable or even out of the womb is a meaningless difference."



UmbrellaBirds
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26 May 2014, 12:32 am

I'm suprised at the number of people who are against abortion. A fetus is basically a parasite to a womans body, if she doesn't want to carry it, she shouldn't be forced to. A woman's body can ungergo major changes during pregnancy, which can sometimes be very dramatic, especially in a young girl. Besides what if a girl was raped? She'd be reminded of it everyday if she had the kid if she wouldn't already be bothered by it without the baby. It would also be nice for the kid to know how they were conceived. Sometimes people care who their father is.

Not only that but some people just can't take care of a baby, though for some reason they still try to. They might forgo having a career or even finishing school to take care of the baby. It basically takes over their life, imagine how much better of a life the kid might have had if their parent had waited until they could take care of it. I know there's always adoption, but not only do many people not go that route, but adoption can be... unpleasant sometimes.

Besides, the fetus is technically part of the woman's body. If someone wanted to amputate a leg because it was making them sick you'd let them, right? You'd be ending the life of a lot of bacteria, but who cares about little cellular organisms with no brains?



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26 May 2014, 2:53 am

Personally I am against abortion, but in moderate ways. So if the mothers live is in medical risc, or its about an rape-case or whatever, i do understand it. So that irish hardcore psycho laws are totally weird in my eyes.

Practically, that does not mean, that I would like abortion to be forbidden, because humans history has proven, that abortions will always exist, so the only thing you can decide about is, if abortions are done medically acceptable, or illegally by some wannabe backhouse doctors, which far often cause much more harm. In some poor countries, dying because of lousy done abortion, is the most likely way to die for woman between 20-45 and I dont see reason for that, only to become my will in theory and law.

In my country, there is not much discussion about it. Do it before 10th week, before the baby develops nerve and brain, and noone will bother you with burocracy or idiotic protesters before hospitals. (If there are medical reasons, it can be done later as well.) The only thing is, that you need to do an information talk about possibilities and public support offers (which can be done in the abortion hospital itself), so that you know of the existence of these.



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26 May 2014, 3:58 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Considering abortion as murder is like saying when a man masturbates is the genocde of 300 million people! Bible thumpers do what they can to dictate the lives of women and their choices! Abortion is a hard and touchy subject but its the womans choice whether she wants to abort or not! Religion and conservatards want a woman to give birth regardless if she is raped or incest and blame her for aborting that child as well? Thats totally fu**ed up! I support abortion Im sorry I had religious bible thumpers show up at my college with pictures of dead fetuses and sh** but in a split second me and others counter protested and said it is even more inhumane to force rape victims to give birth! Those bible thumping conservitards can take that bible and shove it up their arse! Although i am male and it is not my business what a woman wants to do with her body she should still have that right what to do with what she wants she is an independent human being she is nobodies property her body her choice! Naysayers can eat sh**!


Abortion is murder of the unborn innocent baby, masturbation does not count, although many on the Christian rites, treats it as a sin.

Masturbation does not count, because sperm are not people, contain only half the genetic material that may become a man when combined with the other half of the DNA from a woman in the egg cell.

Wonder is that you do not know :-)



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26 May 2014, 4:50 am

I found it quite illustrating that an individual who:

- doesn't believe that women should be allowed to be priests
- doesn't think that women should be allowed to participate in ice hockey or weightlifting
- votes for someone who doesn't think women should be allowed to vote

... simultaneously doesn't want women to have control over their bodies.

pawelk1986 gets an A+ for consistency, at least...

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt259726.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt251834.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt256954.html


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The_Walrus
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26 May 2014, 5:21 am

Jacoby wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
As the zef develops and becomes more worthy of life, so does how horrible and invasive the procedure to kill it becomes.

Personally, I think any woman willing to go through a risky, and really unpleasant, procedure to kill a six-month foetus obviously has a damned good reason, and should be allowed to do it.


Sorry whilst I support abortion I think six months is going way to far, several preterm babies have survived with medical assistance from as early as 22 weeks. I would put the cut off point at 12 weeks unless the mothers life was in genuine danger.
24 weeks is the limit in the UK. I'd quite happily go up to 12 months tbh. Being viable or even out of the womb is a meaningless difference. And in any case, survival at 22 weeks is very low.


WOW

Why stop there, why not age 5 or 10 or 20? Why not any dependent person? The homeless and disable, anybody that's a burden on another? It follows the same logic. Think about what you said right there, it really is an unbelievable statement especially on this site.

It doesn't follow the same logic at all. It does, however, follow good logic. Unlike these ridiculous claims that human life is sacred beyond other species.

A 3 month old baby (i.e. a 12 month foetus) is not a person, so does not have rights in itself. It should be given a similar status to a pig.

A 5 year old, or even an 18 month old child, is certainly a person and should be given rights, particularly the right to life. The homeless are persons, and have the right to life. The disabled are persons (n.b. except those with "disabilities" which are actually total deformities which would have seen them die very quickly 100 years ago, such as total absence of large parts of the brain).

Personally, I'm a vegetarian. I open windows for insects rather than swatting them. I place a high value on life, regardless of species (though admittedly with a bias towards more intelligent lifeforms such as humans and dolphins). But I don't campaign for eating meat to be banned, or fly spray to be banned, or anyone who hits a squirrel in their car to be tried for causing death by dangerous driving. Likewise, I personally, if I had the means to get pregnant, don't think I'd abort a foetus if it wasn't threatening my health. I don't, however, think it is right to stop other people from aborting - and I'd much rather have the limit set shortly after birth than ridiculously early, or abortion banned altogether.



pawelk1986
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26 May 2014, 6:09 am

GGPViper wrote:
I found it quite illustrating that an individual who:

- doesn't believe that women should be allowed to be priests
- doesn't think that women should be allowed to participate in ice hockey or weightlifting
- votes for someone who doesn't think women should be allowed to vote

... simultaneously doesn't want women to have control over their bodies.

pawelk1986 gets an A+ for consistency, at least...

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt259726.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt251834.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt256954.html


Excuse me , I do not think that women should not have voting rights , I think even that in some situations a woman politician can cope better than man . It Januz korwin Mike our ultra- right politician said that , in addition, he heard it from Margaret Thatcher, the former Prime Minister of Great Britain , the best European politics, AS JKM spoke of her in glowing terms . As for the Catholic clergy , and indeed the whole of the Christian clergy , women should not be priests. The Bible says exactly about who can be a priest .

I do not see while obstacles to women served in the military , even though I think it 's job requiring a lot of physical resistance , especially mental , for all- present there rudeness and vulgarity .

I'm Very interested in aviation, even though I know that I'll never be a fighter pilot :(
While my male ego recently suffered heavily after I read in one scientific journal that women are medically better
predestined to be fighter pilots than men :(
Since women generally have lower growth than men and are more compact body, the blood from the heart reaches the brain faster than men , so that women have better resistance to overload than men :(

EDIT:
I see that quite well tracking my profile on wrongplanet.net, I did not know that my thoughts will find admirer in your person. :D



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26 May 2014, 9:43 am

GGPViper wrote:
I found it quite illustrating that an individual who:

- doesn't believe that women should be allowed to be priests
- doesn't think that women should be allowed to participate in ice hockey or weightlifting
- votes for someone who doesn't think women should be allowed to vote

... simultaneously doesn't want women to have control over their bodies.

pawelk1986 gets an A+ for consistency, at least...

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt259726.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt251834.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt256954.html


Yeah, that's some seriously consistent sexism there. To bother considering what competitive sports your particular lessers of choice should and should not be able to play - that's a lot of effort.


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26 May 2014, 11:06 am

I strongly believe we should be able to abort people until 1 year old!

And also, anyone who opposes abortions!



pawelk1986
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26 May 2014, 11:09 am

Hopper wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
I found it quite illustrating that an individual who:

- doesn't believe that women should be allowed to be priests
- doesn't think that women should be allowed to participate in ice hockey or weightlifting
- votes for someone who doesn't think women should be allowed to vote

... simultaneously doesn't want women to have control over their bodies.

pawelk1986 gets an A+ for consistency, at least...

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt259726.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt251834.html
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt256954.html


Yeah, that's some seriously consistent sexism there. To bother considering what competitive sports your particular lessers of choice should and should not be able to play - that's a lot of effort.


I'm not sexist, yes, I disagree on women as clergy in Christianity , but I have no problems to see women such as the military, in air force for example.

I like a woman with character, they know what they want out of life.
I do not like while for women the Barbie doll type, the so-called dumb blondes: D

If I was ever to find a wife, even though I know it's never going to happen because I'm ugly and fat: D That I would not want my candidate's wife, she was intelligent and had a character, even she was would be in charge over me :D


As I said, I have nothing against women working in typically male professions, once wrote that like m when women have some sports, such as weightlifting, I mean medical reasons, the female body is a little weaker than the body of a man, heck even men involved in weightlifting, end up crippled, often for life.

I wrote that I have nothing against women working in professions considered as typically male , but amuse me men working in typically female occupations, such as male nurse :D maybe with the exception of psychiatric hospitals where man power is sometimes essential.



Jacoby
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26 May 2014, 12:40 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
As the zef develops and becomes more worthy of life, so does how horrible and invasive the procedure to kill it becomes.

Personally, I think any woman willing to go through a risky, and really unpleasant, procedure to kill a six-month foetus obviously has a damned good reason, and should be allowed to do it.


Sorry whilst I support abortion I think six months is going way to far, several preterm babies have survived with medical assistance from as early as 22 weeks. I would put the cut off point at 12 weeks unless the mothers life was in genuine danger.
24 weeks is the limit in the UK. I'd quite happily go up to 12 months tbh. Being viable or even out of the womb is a meaningless difference. And in any case, survival at 22 weeks is very low.


WOW

Why stop there, why not age 5 or 10 or 20? Why not any dependent person? The homeless and disable, anybody that's a burden on another? It follows the same logic. Think about what you said right there, it really is an unbelievable statement especially on this site.

It doesn't follow the same logic at all. It does, however, follow good logic. Unlike these ridiculous claims that human life is sacred beyond other species.

A 3 month old baby (i.e. a 12 month foetus) is not a person, so does not have rights in itself. It should be given a similar status to a pig.

A 5 year old, or even an 18 month old child, is certainly a person and should be given rights, particularly the right to life. The homeless are persons, and have the right to life. The disabled are persons (n.b. except those with "disabilities" which are actually total deformities which would have seen them die very quickly 100 years ago, such as total absence of large parts of the brain).

Personally, I'm a vegetarian. I open windows for insects rather than swatting them. I place a high value on life, regardless of species (though admittedly with a bias towards more intelligent lifeforms such as humans and dolphins). But I don't campaign for eating meat to be banned, or fly spray to be banned, or anyone who hits a squirrel in their car to be tried for causing death by dangerous driving. Likewise, I personally, if I had the means to get pregnant, don't think I'd abort a foetus if it wasn't threatening my health. I don't, however, think it is right to stop other people from aborting - and I'd much rather have the limit set shortly after birth than ridiculously early, or abortion banned altogether.


I find these views disgusting and Nazi-esqe. The comparison is legitimate. I hope we never live in a world where you might be declared a non-person but that world has existed it can again. You don't value human life? Neither did that kid in Santa Barbara.