Page 1 of 3 [ 37 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

pawelk1986
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,899
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 33,873
Location: temperate zone

05 Jan 2017, 4:11 pm

First off: half of the folks who frequent the PPR identify as "atheists". A long time regular like you should have been aware of that by now.

But anyway: thats interesting that you come from the back ground of living in a country that is uniformly one sect of Christianity. Despite (or maybe BECAUSE) of decades of rule by atheist communist puppet regimes Poland remains staunchly and uniformly Roman Catholic. Poland used to have a huge Jewish minority. But Hitler pretty much ended that. The few Jews who remained after the War and Holocaust continued to gradually flee during the cold war years (as you say).

Eastern European countries tend to have religious populations.And they tend to have one religion dominating the nation. In Western Europe you also tend to have one sect of Christianity that dominates a given country (like the Church of England in England, or Catholicism in neighboring Ireland), but Christianity itself has all but collapsed in western europe (only six percent of the population ever goes to church). So atheism/agnosticism/secularism is the norm in western europe.

In contrast to both parts of Europe the USA has a strongly religious population (like Eastern Europe), but also a religiously diverse population. So Americans tend to be acquainted with contrasting beliefs (doesnt mean we like them or tolerate them, but depending upon region we are not usually shocked to encounter those beliefs). The very first immigrants to America included folks fleeing religious persecution (like the Mayflower Pilgrims) . And America has a long history of both importing new religions AND of inventing new religions right here. So we are an overstocked warehouse of competing religions both within Christianity and from outside of Christianity.



Adamantium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1024
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,863
Location: Erehwon

05 Jan 2017, 5:03 pm

Seems like a rational hypothesis, given the available evidence.


_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.


friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

05 Jan 2017, 5:28 pm

Atheism is a non-opinion, or trying to prove a negative. Insistently. Sometimes, I think people convert to theism out of spite, such as bitter clingers and deplorables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSE_ynUi7Q

The more-thorough Creationists teach both sides, in hair-splitting detail, and identify logical fallacies, so are a better example of the free marketplace of ideas. They should ideally answer the rhetoric, rhetorically, or say when they don't know something.

As an institution, Atheism has decided there is nothing new, so has come to a dead end. Their only way to progress, socially, or to grow, is in the direction of Intelligent Design or fringe subjects. You start to acknowledge superstitions, which noone really considers, in the day-to-day routine of life. You Atheists have brought religious subject matter, to the attention of normally-oblivious people. You give them rational causes, and that is a segue, into theism.



Adamantium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1024
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,863
Location: Erehwon

05 Jan 2017, 5:44 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Atheism is a non-opinion, or trying to prove a negative. Insistently. Sometimes, I think people convert to theism out of spite, such as bitter clingers and deplorables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSE_ynUi7Q

The more-thorough Creationists teach both sides, in hair-splitting detail, and identify logical fallacies, so are a better example of the free marketplace of ideas. They should ideally answer the rhetoric, rhetorically, or say when they don't know something.

As an institution, Atheism has decided there is nothing new, so has come to a dead end. Their only way to progress, socially, or to grow, is in the direction of Intelligent Design or fringe subjects. You start to acknowledge superstitions, which noone really considers, in the day-to-day routine of life. You Atheists have brought religious subject matter, to the attention of normally-oblivious people. You give them rational causes, and that is a segue, into theism.


Doesn't sound like any atheist I've ever met.


_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.


friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

05 Jan 2017, 6:10 pm

Skeptic-on-a-stick is the archetypal atheist.

Or, we watch explanations, on the science channel, about how the Red Sea opened, just in time for Moses to cross, and closed, just in time to drown the Egyptians, by pure coincidence. Vesuvius (?) had it timed, to the exact second, without any intelligent intervention.

Aliens are acceptable to atheists, otherworldy dimensions, and singularities -- even though you can't corroborate them. It's a materialistic excuse for angelic beings or a spirit world. We're allowed to posit the existence of magical portals, so long as it's in materialistic language.

So, I would say the two kinds of atheists are:
skeptic-on-a-stick
everything-but-Jesus

Image



friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

05 Jan 2017, 6:17 pm

Some people are LaVeyan or philosophical Satanists, but that is not strictly an example of atheism; they are using religious iconography or portray that they are god.



Adamantium
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2013
Age: 1024
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,863
Location: Erehwon

05 Jan 2017, 7:39 pm

Have you ever read Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" ???

He did not "Believe in aliens" or all that other rot, though he was quite prepared to change his view if evidence should emerge that contradicted it.

I think you have to allow for the very large number of non-dogmatic atheists who just don't see the God hypothesis as something necessary or useful. They are not as noticeable as Dawkins or Hitchens because they don't see the point in debating the issue.


_________________
Don't believe the gender note under my avatar. A WP bug means I can't fix it.


Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

06 Jan 2017, 1:19 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Sometimes, I think people convert to theism out of spite...

That's interesting that you said this, cuz I've often thought that of atheists.









_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)


friedmacguffins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,539

06 Jan 2017, 2:25 pm

friedmacguffins" wrote:
As an institution, Atheism has decided there is nothing new, so has come to a dead end. Their only way to progress, socially, or to grow, is in the direction of Intelligent Design or fringe subjects.

Adamantium wrote:
They are not as noticeable as Dawkins or Hitchens because they don't see the point in debating the issue.

In a manner of speaking, we're discussing the same phenomena, but from different perspectives.

friedmacguffins wrote:
Sometimes, I think people convert to theism out of spite...

Campin_Cat wrote:
That's interesting that you said this, cuz I've often thought that of atheists.

I think that cosmic humanists and nondenominationals are so close, in their thinking, that world peace is attainable, in our time.



adifferentname
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,885

06 Jan 2017, 5:59 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Skeptic-on-a-stick is the archetypal atheist.


Are you referencing something here?

Quote:
Or, we watch explanations, on the science channel, about how the Red Sea opened, just in time for Moses to cross, and closed, just in time to drown the Egyptians, by pure coincidence. Vesuvius (?) had it timed, to the exact second, without any intelligent intervention.


Haven't met many atheists who were willing to entertain the possibility that the exodus is anything but a myth. I'd be incredibly sceptical of any claim that there was a "scientific explanation" for the stories in the bible.

Quote:
Aliens are acceptable to atheists, otherworldy dimensions, and singularities -- even though you can't corroborate them.


What do you mean by "acceptable"? If you mean "more plausible than a god", that's one thing. If you mean "absolute belief in the existence of such", that's another thing entirely.

Quote:
It's a materialistic excuse for angelic beings or a spirit world. We're allowed to posit the existence of magical portals, so long as it's in materialistic language.


You've been conversing with some very odd atheists.

Quote:
So, I would say the two kinds of atheists are:
skeptic-on-a-stick
everything-but-Jesus


There are almost as many kinds of atheist as there are atheists. Granted, there are some weird atheist communities that seem to be under the impression they can create an ideology out of their shared scepticism on a single issue, but they're not representative of anything but their communities. You might think of them as I do - followers of Scientism.



liminal
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 5 Mar 2016
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 166
Location: NSW Australia

06 Jan 2017, 7:02 pm

Everyone* is an atheist. You don't believe in Zeus, do you? You don't believe in Thor. You don't believe in Quetzalcoatl. You don't believe in Shiva. You don't believe in Marduk. You don't believe in Amaterasu. You don't believe in Chernobog. You don't believe in Osiris.

There are many thousands of gods that you choose not to believe in.


* with the exception of some new-agers who insist that every single god from every culture exists.


_________________
Secretly he hammers the earth.


BettaPonic
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Jan 2017
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 918
Location: NOVA

24 Jan 2017, 7:16 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:
Atheism is a non-opinion, or trying to prove a negative. Insistently. Sometimes, I think people convert to theism out of spite, such as bitter clingers and deplorables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSE_ynUi7Q

The more-thorough Creationists teach both sides, in hair-splitting detail, and identify logical fallacies, so are a better example of the free marketplace of ideas. They should ideally answer the rhetoric, rhetorically, or say when they don't know something.

As an institution, Atheism has decided there is nothing new, so has come to a dead end. Their only way to progress, socially, or to grow, is in the direction of Intelligent Design or fringe subjects. You start to acknowledge superstitions, which noone really considers, in the day-to-day routine of life. You Atheists have brought religious subject matter, to the attention of normally-oblivious people. You give them rational causes, and that is a segue, into theism.


I have seen creationist material on evolution and science in general, it is not even remotely accurate.



Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1026
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...

24 Jan 2017, 7:49 pm

Dost thou remember this clip from out of a Documentary from a few years or so ago ?


Adamantium wrote:
He did not "Believe in aliens" or all that other rot, though he was quite prepared to change his view if evidence should emerge that contradicted it.


_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,472
Location: Houston, Texas

26 Jan 2017, 1:49 am

I am not an atheist, but I have nothing against them.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


wrongcitizen
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 22 Oct 2016
Gender: Male
Posts: 696

26 Jan 2017, 2:47 am

Adamantium wrote:
friedmacguffins wrote:
Atheism is a non-opinion, or trying to prove a negative. Insistently. Sometimes, I think people convert to theism out of spite, such as bitter clingers and deplorables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdSE_ynUi7Q

The more-thorough Creationists teach both sides, in hair-splitting detail, and identify logical fallacies, so are a better example of the free marketplace of ideas. They should ideally answer the rhetoric, rhetorically, or say when they don't know something.

As an institution, Atheism has decided there is nothing new, so has come to a dead end. Their only way to progress, socially, or to grow, is in the direction of Intelligent Design or fringe subjects. You start to acknowledge superstitions, which noone really considers, in the day-to-day routine of life. You Atheists have brought religious subject matter, to the attention of normally-oblivious people. You give them rational causes, and that is a segue, into theism.


Doesn't sound like any atheist I've ever met.


I second that.