Palestinian boy 12, vows vengeance against Israel

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thomas81
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17 Jul 2014, 3:24 pm

Bataar wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Bataar wrote:

Ultimately, the rocket attacks will be the end of their "culture" .


Why do you use parenthesis as if to imply they have no culture? The western chauvinism on this forum never ceases to astound me.

Either way, Israel would seek to genocide them, regardless of whether they stop the rocket launches or not. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Israel in no way would seek to genocide them. When was the last time Israel violated a cease fire or attacked them unprovoked? Every time Israel has attacked them it has been in response to Hamas attacking Israel.


Israel doesn't need to violate ceasfires. It baits Hamas into violating them by establishing settlements in illegal areas then the hawk media in the US and Europe reports only the Palestinian rockets but never why they started in the first place. Thats how it works.


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Last edited by thomas81 on 17 Jul 2014, 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

trollcatman
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17 Jul 2014, 3:26 pm

Bataar wrote:
Ultimately, the rocket attacks will be the end of their "culture" as Israel will ultimately have to wipe them out. You seem to think that this territory was at some period a Palestinian controlled territory. Prior to Israel controlling it, it was Egypt, prior to that, the UK, prior to that, the Ottomans. The Palestinian people are from Jordan and even Jordan doesn't want them back. The plight of the Palestinian people lies strictly on their own shoulders.


"Wipe them out" ? Wiping out a million people is genocide.
And the fact that the area of Palestine has been controlled by foreign empires has no relevance on whether the natives are native or not. On the contrary, if a people never had their own independant country it's about time they get one.



thomas81
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17 Jul 2014, 3:29 pm

trollcatman wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Ultimately, the rocket attacks will be the end of their "culture" as Israel will ultimately have to wipe them out. You seem to think that this territory was at some period a Palestinian controlled territory. Prior to Israel controlling it, it was Egypt, prior to that, the UK, prior to that, the Ottomans. The Palestinian people are from Jordan and even Jordan doesn't want them back. The plight of the Palestinian people lies strictly on their own shoulders.


"Wipe them out" ? Wiping out a million people is genocide.
And the fact that the area of Palestine has been controlled by foreign empires has no relevance on whether the natives are native or not. On the contrary, if a people never had their own independant country it's about time they get one.


Moreover even from a pro Israel perspective, its a self defeating argument to make. If you're saying that whatever Israel does to the arabs is fair game because they have no country, then by the same logic you acquit the persecutors of the Jews of any wrongdoing too, since traditionally the Jews had no state either.


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17 Jul 2014, 4:25 pm

thomas81 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
So what would you suggest Israel does to stop missile attacks on their civvies?

The Iron dome has been working pretty effectively till now, so its a non-issue.

The recent truce proposal that the Palestinians have drawn up seems like a good deal because it involves the intervention of non biased nations to act as supervisors. It will allow Gaza to rebuild its infrastructure and ensure that Hamas cannot launch rockets. The Israelis should accept it.


Maybe you are right. But I don't think Israel is really that much looking for peace, since they are in a position of military superiority so there is little reason for them to negotiate anything. The settlements also do not indicate any movement towards peace.
Israel just started the ground offensive, it's on the news right now.



Bataar
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17 Jul 2014, 4:39 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Bataar wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Bataar wrote:

Ultimately, the rocket attacks will be the end of their "culture" .


Why do you use parenthesis as if to imply they have no culture? The western chauvinism on this forum never ceases to astound me.

Either way, Israel would seek to genocide them, regardless of whether they stop the rocket launches or not. Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Israel in no way would seek to genocide them. When was the last time Israel violated a cease fire or attacked them unprovoked? Every time Israel has attacked them it has been in response to Hamas attacking Israel.


Israel doesn't need to violate ceasfires. It baits Hamas into violating them by establishing settlements in illegal areas then the hawk media in the US and Europe reports only the Palestinian rockets but never why they started in the first place. Thats how it works.

I could be wrong here, but I don't think Israel has built any new settlements in Gaza. If they have, please provide a link with the information. You are correct that the international community considers the settlements illegal, but just to clear up confusion, that's not because the settlements were established on land belonging to another party. Rather, the settlements are considered illegal because they are considered to violate the Geneva Convention's prohibition on population transfer. The Geneva Convention prohibits a state from transferring its population into occupied territory (though it should be noted that settlers moving to occupied territory were not coerced). Though the international consensus is that the settlements are illegal, there is still legal dispute about this issue.



thomas81
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17 Jul 2014, 7:56 pm

Israel dismantled its settlements, but only under the duress or threat of, further rocket attacks. The point is if they had simply acquiesced, then the settlement building would have continued.


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thomas81
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17 Jul 2014, 11:19 pm

Oh, and the reason the tunnels in Gaza don't make effective shelters is because Israel is targeting them.

Ali Abunima cuts through the Israeli-BBC BS.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFf07h89794[/youtube]


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khaoz
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18 Jul 2014, 2:42 am

I wonder how many have vowed vengeance against the United States in the past 40 years as they pick through the blood coated parts of projectiles that have climbed in their bedroom windows in the middle of the night from 600 miles away, while family slept peacefully and innocently. Projectile fired off by men and women in no danger of harm themselves or even near enough to see and feel the immediate consequences of their actions. If so, they may begin to pontificate on the long range consequences of their action and to reflect on the reason the have been sent halfway around to world to murder people who have done nothing to them



thomas81
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18 Jul 2014, 6:13 am

A video of IDF using Palestinian human shields to defend their vehicles. Oh dear, looks like you will have to find a new talking point, Israel supporters.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAU8N-TQEdA[/youtube]


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zer0netgain
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18 Jul 2014, 6:47 am

thomas81 wrote:
trollcatman wrote:
So what would you suggest Israel does to stop missile attacks on their civvies?

The Iron dome has been working pretty effectively till now, so its a non-issue.


I was waiting for nonsense like this to pop up.

So, an enemy is allowed to attack with impunity so long as nobody gets hurt?

Would you allow someone to break into your home so long as they don't take any of your stuff or inflict physical harm on you...even though they put you in fear of your safety every time they do it?

Bull.

They committed an act of war by any definition. Retaliation has no limitation based on what harm ultimately was or was not inflicted.

Israel has gone to insane lengths to avoid civilian casualties. If they acted like Hamas, they would make no effort at all to avoid civilian casualties.

Double standard....period.



thomas81
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18 Jul 2014, 8:37 am

zer0netgain wrote:


I was waiting for nonsense like this to pop up.

So, an enemy is allowed to attack with impunity so long as nobody gets hurt?

Would you allow someone to break into your home so long as they don't take any of your stuff or inflict physical harm on you...even though they put you in fear of your safety every time they do it?


Its not analogous at all. Rocket attacks from Gaza have to be taken in their context, of a dispossessed people being surrounded on all sides by closed borders and a military siege.

zer0netgain wrote:
They committed an act of war by any definition. Retaliation has no limitation based on what harm ultimately was or was not inflicted.

Israel has gone to insane lengths to avoid civilian casualties. If they acted like Hamas, they would make no effort at all to avoid civilian casualties.

Double standard....period.


Using ranged explosives on a densely populated enclave of land does not constitute "Israel has gone to insane lengths to avoid civilian casualties."

Reasonable attempts to avoid human casualties would entail sending infantry from the get go, and fighting Hamas on their own terms in order to accurately identify combatants. Given that nearly 80 percent of all Palestinian deaths are civilian shows that this strategy has failed, and Israel are demonstrably no longer in a position to take the moral high ground as they have been proven to also exploit human shields. If the British army had behaved during the Irish troubles like Israel does now, they would have bombed nationalist areas of Northern Ireland.

John Stewart on Israels "insane lengths to avoid human casualties"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmPJb6Mcu6g[/youtube]


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18 Jul 2014, 10:55 am

thomas81 wrote:
A video of IDF using Palestinian human shields to defend their vehicles. Oh dear, looks like you will have to find a new talking point, Israel supporters.

I guess I could say that at least they finally found something useful to do with Palestinians but I won't say that since that might be construed as "hate speech". :P


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Bataar
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18 Jul 2014, 10:55 am

The Palestinians voted for war and that's what they got. Israelis voted for peace and its war they got. .
Instead of being a PR agent for Hamas take the side of peaceful Palestinians and pray that Israel demolishes Hamas and installs a government there that is friendly to Israel so both sides can work together for a peaceful future



thomas81
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18 Jul 2014, 11:10 am

Bataar wrote:
The Palestinians voted for war and that's what they got. Israelis voted for peace and its war they got.


Likud is hardly an agent of peace. They are probably the most embittered right wing zionist entity there is in Israel, as they stand for the total annexation of the west bank and gaza.

The Israelis voted for war too, don't kid yourself.


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thomas81
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18 Jul 2014, 12:40 pm

This just in- As Israel becomes more desperate to win advocates, their propagandists are falsifying images of Syrians using civilian human shields as Hamas.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali ... elds-syria


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18 Jul 2014, 12:46 pm

Quote:
Israel launches so called 'warning rockets' at a Gaza city hospital full of sick and injured people, warning them to evacuate before a full scale bombing hits it.

Of course you wont hear any of this on BBC-CNN-Fox.


For the record

I was driving home from work this afternoon and on BBC Radio 4 during the PM program they played a report from a Journalist who interviewed a Doctor based at that hospital and described the hospital being struck by missiles and artillery repeatedly with visible holes in the infrastructure.

While he was speaking to the Doctor they were interrupted by the launching of Rockets from Hamas militants located near the hospital. He then asked the Doctor if having the missiles this close to the hospital really helped the situation with his patients and his frustrated response was that "the Israeli's leave us no choice, what do you expect? We are only human beings"

You can re-listen to this on the BBC Iplayer if you wish.

BBC Radio 4 PM 18.7.2014


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