Why would a conservative only care about the wealthy?

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K_Kelly
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27 Jul 2014, 1:56 pm

Why can't charity make up for it? I'm not saying we should ditch social security or welfare at all. But many conservatives believe that it should be temporary. And if conservatives differ than liberals on issues, we have a right to speak our mind, so why should they usually care?



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27 Jul 2014, 2:11 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Why can't charity make up for it? I'm not saying we should ditch social security or welfare at all. But many conservatives believe that it should be temporary. And if conservatives differ than liberals on issues, we have a right to speak our mind, so why should they usually care?


Because I doubt there are enough chairity organizations, as well as people willing to donate to them to replace current welfare programs, as is what we have is lacking.....if we got rid of the current welfare programs, and tried switching to charity alone dealing with poverty things would be even worse.....If anything the system we have could use some reforming so its more effective and nothing wrong with Charity to supplement it.

For instance I doubt charity could replace SSI/SSDI, Unemployment, Medicaid/Medicare...perhaps food stamps, but that would take a lot of food shelves. Also much of the time welfare can be temporary, like some people on food-stamps end up getting off them when they are in a position to afford adequate food, unemployment is temporary(not sure if that is technically fully welfare or if employers pay that), Medicaid can be temporary. However some peoples circumstances don't improve....also with SSI someones disability might not improve enough for work, so making it 'temporary' in those cases really would not do much good would just leave a lot of disabled people with less resources to work with.


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27 Jul 2014, 4:41 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think many Republicans are so sold on the notion of an all knowing, all mighty free market that they honestly believe will correct all social injustice, and make everyone at the end of the day rich without interference of the government, civil rights organizations, or labor unions.
As opposed to what, prosperity and happiness through government? Hey, I guess it beats working for a living. :roll:

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They believe the best way to accomplish this is by coddling the rich who will fire up the engines of capitalism to bring about the market's second coming.

More like allowing economic growth here, lest that economic growth take place somewhere else.

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The Republican leadership on the other hand isn't so naive - rather, they know on which side their bread is buttered on, and so coddle the rich with tax cuts and sweet business contracts to get those political donations to keep them in office.

All the better when those busine$$ contract$ bring job$.

PS: You forgot to throw the word "heartless" in there.


Kraichgauer wrote:
When did I say that prosperity didn't come from the private sector? I have a problem with the notion that the market needs to be unregulated, and that it's somehow a thinking, omniscient thing that could never harm the hard working.

Yes, but don't regulate them to where it's overly tempting to roll up their tents and take them to China or just go out of business.

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And as far as prosperity happening somewhere else - that's exactly what's happening with the free market, as big business is allowed to go overseas, leaving not only individual American workers, but in fact whole communities without a hope or a prayer.
You want an iron curtain so they can't leave? On second thought don't answer that. :roll:

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And yes, that is heartless.
Good thing I reminded you to throw that in, although I'm surprised I had to.


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luanqibazao
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27 Jul 2014, 4:52 pm

Because it's infinitely easier to smear your opponents' motives than to come up with an actual logical argument.



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27 Jul 2014, 5:21 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Why can't charity make up for it? I'm not saying we should ditch social security or welfare at all. But many conservatives believe that it should be temporary. And if conservatives differ than liberals on issues, we have a right to speak our mind, so why should they usually care?

Because charity is a business. Some peoples use that to become richer and some other to push a political agenda.

As for conservatives caring only about the wealthy, it may not be the case, but the results of their politics is only good for the wealthy.



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27 Jul 2014, 9:10 pm

Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think many Republicans are so sold on the notion of an all knowing, all mighty free market that they honestly believe will correct all social injustice, and make everyone at the end of the day rich without interference of the government, civil rights organizations, or labor unions.
As opposed to what, prosperity and happiness through government? Hey, I guess it beats working for a living. :roll:

Quote:
They believe the best way to accomplish this is by coddling the rich who will fire up the engines of capitalism to bring about the market's second coming.

More like allowing economic growth here, lest that economic growth take place somewhere else.

Quote:
The Republican leadership on the other hand isn't so naive - rather, they know on which side their bread is buttered on, and so coddle the rich with tax cuts and sweet business contracts to get those political donations to keep them in office.

All the better when those busine$$ contract$ bring job$.

PS: You forgot to throw the word "heartless" in there.


Kraichgauer wrote:
When did I say that prosperity didn't come from the private sector? I have a problem with the notion that the market needs to be unregulated, and that it's somehow a thinking, omniscient thing that could never harm the hard working.

Yes, but don't regulate them to where it's overly tempting to roll up their tents and take them to China or just go out of business.

Quote:
And as far as prosperity happening somewhere else - that's exactly what's happening with the free market, as big business is allowed to go overseas, leaving not only individual American workers, but in fact whole communities without a hope or a prayer.
You want an iron curtain so they can't leave? On second thought don't answer that. :roll:

Quote:
And yes, that is heartless.
Good thing I reminded you to throw that in, although I'm surprised I had to.


So, we're not supposed to restrict business so they can't leave Americans without work, and we're supposed to deregulate businesses so they will want to stay - at the cost of the worker and the consumer. You want all the advantage given to business, I'm surprised you don't figure we should wipe their collective ass after they defecate on us, too.


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Danimal
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27 Jul 2014, 10:11 pm

Charities have a valuable role in society, but they can't fill every need. In the nearby town of Crawfordsville, Indiana there are many people dependent on food stamps and other assistance. However, food assistance may not cover the entire month for some families. A local food pantry helps fill those needs until their cards are recharged. Also, the pantry helps provide laundry detergent and other cleaning supplies that food stamps don't pay.



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27 Jul 2014, 11:10 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Why can't charity make up for it? I'm not saying we should ditch social security or welfare at all. But many conservatives believe that it should be temporary. And if conservatives differ than liberals on issues, we have a right to speak our mind, so why should they usually care?

For some it is a case of what kind of a world they want to live in. Or how the world really works.

Most folks marry, have kids and spend the best part of their lives raising, clothing, educating and looking after them, only to have them leave.
Now making that kind of a financial investment for no financial return certainly doesn't make much business sense.
But that is the way the world works.

Would a Republican model for household accounting accrue every dime spent on ones kids to a special debt account for them to be paid off before they can start savings of their own?

In order to call ourselves civilized, we like to think that human life has some value.
That every person is entitled to some measure of dignity, and that where the resources exist, no one need be without food, clothing or shelter.
Where the reality fails to meet the ideal, some call for greater government assistance.
Of course some don't have that ideal to begin with.



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28 Jul 2014, 9:24 am

Tollorin wrote:
As for conservatives caring only about the wealthy, it may not be the case, but the results of their politics is only good for the wealthy.


+1

At least in their current incarnation. I am very unhappy about the fact that they have been blocking legislation that would discourage the exportation of jobs and encourage bringing jobs back to the US. But if the Dems are for it, the Repubs are against it. I am sick of this for me/against me crap. The Repubs have opposed every measure since Obama was sworn in; even ones that were perfectly in line with their platform prior to him.


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28 Jul 2014, 9:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
So, we're not supposed to restrict business so they can't leave Americans without work, and we're supposed to deregulate businesses so they will want to stay - at the cost of the worker and the consumer. You want all the advantage given to business, I'm surprised you don't figure we should wipe their collective ass after they defecate on us, too.


Carefully read again what I actually said.
Raptor wrote:
Yes, but don't regulate them to where it's overly tempting to roll up their tents and take them to China or just go out of business.


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AspE
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28 Jul 2014, 12:00 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
Why can't charity make up for it? I'm not saying we should ditch social security or welfare at all. But many conservatives believe that it should be temporary. And if conservatives differ than liberals on issues, we have a right to speak our mind, so why should they usually care?

How can social security be temporary? Disabled people depend on it to live. Welfare is already temporary.



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28 Jul 2014, 12:07 pm

sonofghandi wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
As for conservatives caring only about the wealthy, it may not be the case, but the results of their politics is only good for the wealthy.


+1

At least in their current incarnation. I am very unhappy about the fact that they have been blocking legislation that would discourage the exportation of jobs and encourage bringing jobs back to the US. But if the Dems are for it, the Repubs are against it. I am sick of this for me/against me crap. The Repubs have opposed every measure since Obama was sworn in; even ones that were perfectly in line with their platform prior to him.


"At least in their current incarnation. I am very unhappy about the fact that they have been blocking legislation that would discourage the exportation of jobs and encourage bringing jobs back to the US. "???????????????????

AND:

"Raptor wrote:
Yes, but don't regulate them to where it's overly tempting to roll up their tents and take them to China or just go out of business.

But But..........the battle's already lost. Perfect example: A year or two ago Obama was on all TV screens celebrating and agreement for Free Trade with South Korea.
Unless I disremember my economics this means that the incredibly productive and efficient S.Korea will ship ALL of their products, competitive to U.S. manufacturers or not, to the U.S. without any import duties or fees to protect American jobs. And in return all the raw materials (from our country), etc. that these international companies may need they can now import into S.Korea without any fees or taxes. We have many such "agreements", for the benefit of many corporations, with many countries.

So until the level of low paid illegal immigrants rises to a higher level (bringing down wages in the U.S.) this is how it will remain.



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28 Jul 2014, 12:28 pm

Tollorin wrote:
K_Kelly wrote:
Why can't charity make up for it? I'm not saying we should ditch social security or welfare at all. But many conservatives believe that it should be temporary. And if conservatives differ than liberals on issues, we have a right to speak our mind, so why should they usually care?

Because charity is a business. Some peoples use that to become richer and some other to push a political agenda.

As for conservatives caring only about the wealthy, it may not be the case, but the results of their politics is only good for the wealthy.


They also claim to care about the middle class.... :lol:

And then act like there is only the wealthy and the middle class and anything else is just....well who cares....


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Sweetleaf
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28 Jul 2014, 12:31 pm

Danimal wrote:
Charities have a valuable role in society, but they can't fill every need. In the nearby town of Crawfordsville, Indiana there are many people dependent on food stamps and other assistance. However, food assistance may not cover the entire month for some families. A local food pantry helps fill those needs until their cards are recharged. Also, the pantry helps provide laundry detergent and other cleaning supplies that food stamps don't pay.


Percisly it does help supplement the government programs in place, but no way could it possibly replace them. Sadly though a lot of chairity organizations like one other poster mentioned are more about looking good politically or whatever, then actually helping people in need....but not all are like that.


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28 Jul 2014, 2:44 pm

Conservatives happen to favor economic policies that benefit wealthy people much more than they do a typical person. If you lower taxes by the same percentage on everyone, that benefits the wealthy much more than a typical person. If you make it easier for businesses to be profitable, that benefits people who already own large businesses far more than someone who only owns a small business or no business at all. When you have proposals to lower taxes on those who are not wealthy, but to keep them where they are for the wealthy, or you have proposals to make things easier for small businesses but not make them any easier for larger businesses, thus giving conservatives an awful lot of what they say they want, but then they reject the proposal and get none of what they want, because it doesn't help the rich and the large companies, well, what conclusion is a reasonable person to draw from this? Especially when the proposal in question would seemingly help most of the conservatives but they reject it because it does nothing for the wealthy? Seems then they care more about the wealthy than themselves.



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28 Jul 2014, 4:09 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
So, we're not supposed to restrict business so they can't leave Americans without work, and we're supposed to deregulate businesses so they will want to stay - at the cost of the worker and the consumer. You want all the advantage given to business, I'm surprised you don't figure we should wipe their collective ass after they defecate on us, too.


Carefully read again what I actually said.
Raptor wrote:
Yes, but don't regulate them to where it's overly tempting to roll up their tents and take them to China or just go out of business.


I did absolutely understand what you wrote. It's still putting the full advantage with business at the expense of workers and consumers when they take advantage of the fear that regulations will drive them away. As sonofgandhi had pointed out, it was Republicans who had blocked legislation that would have made it more difficult for businesses to pack up and desert Americans. Had this been allowed to go though, big business would have to stay despite all those evil regulations, and actually be what they claim to be - job creators.


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