God does nor exist nor do gods exist!

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I think we'd rather you made a cogent argument yourself than play linkwarz with us. Citations are all well and good but that doesn't mean you don't have to make any of your own arguments. You expect us to debate with a brick wall? You expect us to bow down and say that your sources are infallible and so much better than ours?

God will never be proven to not exist.. he's not a falsifiable hypothesis.
He is running out of places to hide though, and we now know he really isn't a necessary factor at all.

Of course one must first define God before proving if God exists or does not exist. Many consider God ineffable. Let "X" represent an undefined variable. Is it a meaningful question to ask, "does X exist"? I think not. It is similar to asking, "does anything exist"? Of course the answer is yes, but that leaves out the God question. Unless,you say that God is being itself, like many theologians. The interesting thing is (as Kant proved) existence is not a predicate. Since science and logic requires predicates, those paths cannot lead to God. I am looking at the mystics ( Eckhart,gnostics etc) for another path.
Science and logic is based on the correspondence theory of truth. From now on referred to as CTT. Is the CTT true? By its own definition it must correspond....to what?! another CTT! infinite regress! Finding an ultimate explanation via logic is impossible because there is no foundation.
Suppose one says that the explanations go back infinitely. That explains nothing! Suppose one says that the earth is supported by a turtle and that turtle sits on a turtle...ad infinitum. That does not explain why they are turtles and not rocks. If one wants an ultimate explanation one must take another path than logic and science!
We know that certain things exist without anything objective to correspond to. For example, I know that I am aware,conscious. However, I cannot prove it. The triangle I visualize has no objective physicallity. There is no physical triangle in my brain, my neurons are not firing in a triangular form etc. To say that the triangle is encoded in my brain is like saying that holding a CD of Mozart's music =knowing what his music sounds like.
The problem with anything foundational like existence and/or consciousness is that being foundational it cannot refer to anything and therefore the CTT does not apply.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/correspondence/

Once again a link does not work. For that last link google "stanford correspondence theory of truth" or cut and paste it.

If all religions were were 100% proven to be not true along with the existence of their gods how would all the religious followers react? Would they panic?

To be honest they probably wouldn't believe it. And I doubt many militant atheists would believe it if the opposite happened. Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, you know.

When people speak, they think of a mouth. When they speak about seeing, they think of eyes. When they hear about something, they think of the ears. Being everywhere is movement. Time, is a clock, or the sun rising, and setting. Next thing you know, things appear in your mind. You believe it, or not. Only that is not what it is. You cannot see. Your blind. Now you have only one option to find the truth, and it may or may not work.

Go die!

Is this my idea of humor?

Maybe.

Maybe not.

Follow your heart.

If you have one.

I agree with Lukecash12.

I'm an (ex-Christian) agnostic. I certainly see little evidence for a god, and I don't really care whether one exists, but I'm not going to declare that there isn't one. For all we know, there could be.

*starts handing out pamphlets mentioning many reasons that god doesn't exist* There ya go muahahahhaha!! ! Next time to go door to door!

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but... what science is this exactly? Science is defined as follows:
Doesn't the very nature of a supreme being kinda fall outside the limitations of "observation" and "experiment"? If you want to try and nitpick the religious texts and "prove" they're wrong, be my guest and I'll address those points individually, but frankly the whole notion of a man-made thing nullifying a supreme being sounds ridiculous to me.

I don't know about you, but I see a website built by guy with too much time on his hands, severely lacking on basic research, and riddled with very basic logical fallacies (including quite a few of the Contextomy variety, which I can quite easily snap right back with if you desire, and a random sampling of the later ones used earlier ones as their basis, which falls victim to False Premise, and one he himself cites, Proof by contradiction). I don't even know where to begin with this one. Want to pick a spot and start there?

And if vice versa were true instead?

Care to share these "many reasons"?

Thanks for the link, that's a great site!

I know right it brings a smile to my face every time I read it and also provides the many explanations on why it is impossible for a god to exist!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y[/youtube]The bible is so repulsive in fact it has no place in modern society, esspecially mentioning how those who work on the sabbath day shall be put to death!If it wasn't for the separation of church and state such a law would come into effect! It would make western society no different than the middle east!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE[/youtube]

*crickets*

See, I find it quite hilarious that you start this thread to spread all this nonsensical propoganda, then when someone comes and asks you to back it all up with the "facts" and "evidence" you claim to have, all you do is post YouTube videos of the same logical fallacies I outlined in my post plus a comedy routine from a dead guy. I have yet to see these "facts" or "evidence" that you speak of, and you have yet to refute (or for that matter, even address) anything I have said thus far. What's the matter? Can't stand "the big guns"? If you can't take the heat, don't start posting threads like this

It seems to me that George Carlin has good working knowledge of how GOD works, but he doesn't understand the history of Abrahamic religions and the way they have been manipulated by people in power down through history.

He understands that prayer can work, no matter what name one uses for 'GOD' per the SUN, Joe, or whatever abstract worded concept is used, and he understands that the GOD of nature, is in the Sun, but doesn't extend that to ALL THAT IS.

Actually, the historical man named Yeshua; one of many translations of the name of the ACTUAL living man named Jesus now, was more of a Pantheist and Yogi, than anything associated with current Old Testament Version of what some folks refer to as a limited form of 'GOD's Word'

The actual man Jesus, spent forty days out in the desert separated from culture, and found GOD in nature, similar as Buddha wandering around the country side and sitting under a tree; and Muhammad, solitary in a cave imagining he was talking to Angels, and such as that.

The early oral traditions of Christianity better reflect the Gospel of Thomas, where the man Jesus' idea of GOD living within us, outside of us, above and below as an unnamable force is almost identical to the way Carl Sagan and most other modern scientists describe nature and as one and same.

Again, it's just words and whether they be GOD, the Sun, or Joe, or the 'Weather', it doesn't change the essence of the force scientifically proven to interconnect all that is in the interdependent relationship of all that is, just like the real dude Buddha and Jesus suggested, although Muhammad still seemed a little stuck on the previous biblical names of Angels, in his report of how it all works, to him at the time of his life.

And the Gospel of Thomas was censored out of the New Testament by the likes of Roman Emperor Constantine, who wanted to expand the Roman Empire and did erect a Sun-GOD like statue of himself to enhance his psychopathic leaning nature.

Constantine did this in part by making Jesus into a Warrior GOD, while his early Roman Catholic Cohorts, supported his desire of rule, in council meeting, not unlike a board meeting with guys smoking cigars for a major corporation today, to meet their selfish empowering desires. The early Roman Catholic Cohorts also developed an idea of a trinity well after Jesus lived.

The real man Jesus, as reported in this Gospel of Thomas, one of the ones censored out, said if you want to find the living one aka GOD, strip off your clothes and tread on them without shame of your nakedness like a little child. I practice this and find it works great in REAL LIFE TOO.

Oh by the way here's his words, as reported, in the Gospel of Thomas, before Constantine and his early Roman Catholic Cohorts, crowned him to be a warrior GOD of the frigging Universe.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/thomas.htm

If Jesus knew that, and could be here to talk about it, he would likely be throwing tables in the temple disgusted as what has become of the words of a man, who said the humble will be the greatest in the kingdom of heaven NOW.

No, NOT in SOME fantasy of an afterlife, created by psychopathic leaning folks who invented an eternal hell as well, to scare the crap out of folks to basically control their reproductive freedoms, for the men who were too weak, to secure their own women's desires, by satisfying them as virile men, to subjugating people for material gains by you must give us your 'tax worthy' ten percent, to build our churches to keep us in business.

Yes, that's what the turning over the tables in the moneychanger temple was all about, but many people still don't get it.

Nor do they get the historical FACT NOW EVIDENCED that Jesus was more of a classical pantheist mixed with Yogi healer than any frigging GOD of the Universe.

Problem with people looking to fantasies to cure their ills, like a kingdom of heaven after life, is they never even live in now, which is the saddest part of all. And in the linked text above, Jesus clearly indicates if you do not find the kingdom of heaven now, in nature, you will never find it, particularly after you are dead.

As shown through history per the American Indians and other people who live close to nature, and in reality of what human nature really means, they see GOD and Nature more CLEARLY as ONE force that they are an inseparable part of like Jesus and Buddha.

As soon as complex written languages were developed, along with collective intelligence, and complex cultures, people could invent whatever GOD suited their purposes to control the herd to live in a large population that humans are not evolved to live in, as they are only evolved to connect to around 150 to 200 sets of eyes.

And that's what they did obviously, and George Carlin gets that part for sure, however, he doesn't understand the definition of GOD most definitely includes the SUN, as a life giving force, that he so eloquently describes truthfully in his rant about religion that I agree with except for the part about GOD not existing, as science now does prove this interconnecting interdependent relationship of ALL THAT IS, MOST DEFINITELY DOES EXIST, WITHOUT QUESTION.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF SEMANTICS AND MORE GENERALLY LINGUISTICS, THAT COME FROM complex written human language, collective intelligence, and complex cultures, that primitive people's just aren't AS confused about.

IN other words, language can be illusion, but the essence of ALL THAT IS aka GOD is reality, and it is clear for those to see, who are not blinded by ignorance.

The American Indian could see, without written words, obviously, and so can we, if we find a way to escape COMPLEX WRITTEN LANGUAGE AND CULTURAL illusion.

And that's where the big camel, and the little eye of the needle come into play, as we are ALL RICH WITH COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE OF ILLUSION GROWING from complex written language forming more complex culture AS WE SPEAK, for those who do know, they do not know, the truth of what all that is, IS, by culture alone.

I find GOD in science, as I know it is the same GOD that Carl Sagan, the Real man Yeshua aka Jesus, and Bruce Lee were all talking about, per the force without visual form, until science came along and found ways to see more of it with the aided eye.

The essence is what counts.

Words are only empty constructs when they are illusion. Particularly when psychopathic leaning individuals who have little to no empathy or feeling connection to nature, are making the rules, and science does now show that the modern religious clergy is in the top ten list of professions of folks who do have psychopathic leaning tendencies.

Some things, rarely change, and control over others, through subjugation, oppression and repression of basic GOD GIVEN human nature Is a psychopathic leaning way.

IT IS THE SIMILAR TODAY AS YESTERYEAR, AND when oral tradition was replaced with the so called 'word of GOD', the problem was obviously exacerbated, as the oppression, repression and subjugation became man-made religious law from the 10 commandments down FROM the 613 commandments of the Torah.

Jesus consolidated it the same way Buddha did into one basic commandment love GOD aka as Nature (the living one) with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Fortunately this Universal law is built into our genetics, except for the psychopathic leaning individuals who GET THIS WAY FROM MUTATIONS OF NATURE, or the unloving eyes of a mother, or bullying peer in childhood PER NURTURE. They likely stayed in the gene pool, as they make excellent cold-blooded warriors, to support the human tribal instinct.

Innately the overwhelming majority of humans are evolved for human empathy, sharing, and cooperation.

It is the psychopathic leaning individuals who have always taken advantage of the good part of human nature, and they continue to do so, both in politics and brick and mortar religions.

DAVID ICKE CALLS THEM REPTILES. And yeah although obviously that shouldn't be take literally as it seems he does, but in truth, they are ruled moreover by the reptile part of the brain and associated wiring, per the psychopathic leaning individuals that do rule moreover by reptile brain of dominance over others, even in the same species, which is moreover antithetical to what it means to be a social animal, per cooperation or die, in GOD's greatest game of survival.

The human race is doomed without the golden rule, but it's in our genetics, OVERALL, and one cannot fool Mother Nature, and continue to survive.

My bet is that GOD aka Mother NATURE TRUE WILL HAVE 'HER' WAY. :)

WE CAN COOPERATE OR EVENTUALLY WE CAN BECOME EXTINCT AND THAT IS WHERE OUR RELATIVE FREE WILL COMES INTO PLAY! :)

WE CAN CREATE HEAVEN OR HELL NOW IN REAL LIFE.

IT'S UP TO US, NOW.

And GOD just sits back and 'watches' and 'waits' as GOD's WILL, WILL be done with US or without US AND OUR RELATIVE FREE WILL, as it has evolved to create both HEAVEN AND HELL IN REAL LIFE NOW.

Last edited by aghogday on 09 Nov 2014, 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.