God does nor exist nor do gods exist!
^^
I agree with this. :)
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IMHO there's clearly enough mud out there peer-reviewed and otherwise to keep us asking all kinds of questions about our realities anywhere from whether it's a single 1:1 universe where one possibility of each movement is available to a type III multiverse where probabilities are real animals rather than lack of data, whether we're really in a holographic estate perhaps on the 'skin' of a black hole where the data postulated to be held rather than destroyed, questions like what do the double slit and quantum eraser outcomes really mean, etc. etc.. The loopier it gets it also seems easier to ask the questions such as whether consciousness necessarily needs brain cells and if it could work on a computer why stop there, ideas like morphic fields which are just another way rephrasing platonic forms get another glance, questions like what's happening when a person drinks a healthy dose of DMT or when an experienced ceremonial magician is able to invoke an entity - where the space between internal and psychological space stops and the 'outer world' as independent starts, etc..
I really like the times we live in because we have so much data available to us that we can make some very educated decisions both in what we select to read to cover as many bases as we can but also to make sure that we're looking at the best that a particular field of knowledge has to offer - it's right at our fingertips either on Amazon or the WWW in general.
I would say that a lot of our old and misguided images of a very human, temperamental, or even capricious or philandering sky god or goddess (depending on the culture and whether there's one or many partying up in the sky or glaring down at our doings) are on their way out. These stories can be dismantled for perhaps deeper implications of what people may have been trying to describe or even encode in allegory can be evaluated so we could at least keep the wheat and discard of the chaff. If there is anything sentient higher and beyond us on what one might call the inner planes it filters through our brains and we ad lots...and lots.... of our own color to any messages it might send. A lot of human experience might suggest it's there but we have a long way to go in learning it's language.
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I guess sheps big guns were loaded with blanks and he had to retreat knowing he was outmatched and couldnt find a surefall reason on proving that a god exist in a realistic modern scientific level. I win yay *breaks out the champaign bottle*
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Along these lines I am what you could call an agnostic atheist. I am agnostic since I don't know or even think it's possible to know how exactly everything came about. We can have theories and collect good evidence for them but that's not the same as truly knowing. I am atheist since I think whatever we are thinking of when we say God/god is bound to be so wide of the mark as to not have any actual correlation with what there really is. It's easy to look back on the pantheon of gods/goddesses who were really just like immortal humans with superpowers and call that misguided. But I think that the currently accepted monotheistic God is equally misguided. His creators put a whole lot of abstraction in so he is far removed from the human qualities of the other gods. But still pretty human for all that. He's still an individual with a human agenda of accomplishing stuff and then contemplating what just got accomplished. Even the concept of "sentient" is a human one.
Whatever the actual truth is, I seriously doubt it can fit inside our brains. Biology limits us to conceptualizing in certain ways and those limits prevent us from actually knowing. The very concept of "knowing" is probably even wide of the mark. So I call myself an atheist because I don't think it's possible for humans to conceptualize the reality of what happened (is happening) and saying "God" just perpetuates the idea that we can. But also agnostic because I truly have no way of knowing.
techstepgenr8tion
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Even if as a culture we truly tried to take an honest objective look at ourselves and threw all of the Darwinian games out the window that reward delusions of grandeur at the cost of objectivity - that's still making quite a big assumption that if we left the universe alone it would reciprocally respect our autonomy and leave us alone. If it's sentience could care less that we existed then yes - that would be quite possible. On the other hand if it's a voracious flirt all bets are off. It would play and tug at our sleeves more vigorously still if its purpose for our being here had nothing to do with us alienating ourselves from its embrace.
As far as why I haven't posted for a while, I'll be honest, I was waiting to see what you'd come up with. What "facts" and "evidence" you had up your sleeve. My "big guns" may not be loaded right now, but at least my aim isn't as horrible as yours is. Here's a real challenge for you: cite these "facts" and "evidence" that there is no higher being withour any reference to religious texts. Can you do it? Can you? Because if you can't, then this whole thread you made has been in massive vain, and is the biggest failure I have seen from any aethiest to date. Remember: even indirect references to religious texts (such as the notion of praying) count as a reference. I have been waiting for a non-yawnable challenge, but quite honestly, it's time to step it up a notch. I can do this in my sleep, seriously.
As far as why I haven't posted for a while, I'll be honest, I was waiting to see what you'd come up with. What "facts" and "evidence" you had up your sleeve. My "big guns" may not be loaded right now, but at least my aim isn't as horrible as yours is. Here's a real challenge for you: cite these "facts" and "evidence" that there is no higher being withour any reference to religious texts. Can you do it? Can you? Because if you can't, then this whole thread you made has been in massive vain, and is the biggest failure I have seen from any aethiest to date. Remember: even indirect references to religious texts (such as the notion of praying) count as a reference. I have been waiting for a non-yawnable challenge, but quite honestly, it's time to step it up a notch. I can do this in my sleep, seriously.
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Is this seriously all you've got? Frankly I find this latest addition to be a near-indirect admission that you can't meet my challenge. From what I can see, you're all talk but no walk, and you also don't have content to back up those massively over-reaching claims. If you want to go about saying a specific religion is wrong or incorrect, be my guest. But making threads telling us "you are wasting your time and allowing yourself to be a thrall to a made up concept" and calling us all "slave[s] to a make believe belief" then saying "science has proven it" yet **failing to deliver anything relevant** when someone calls you out on it is just sad, pitiful, and more "failed troll" than "converter of minds".
Our Debating 101 lesson for the day: before you go professing extraordinarily wild claims (such as the ones littered in this thread) to the masses, make sure you are both willing and able to defend said claims against intense scrutiny.
I believe:
the only way one could unequivocally deduce that God/gods/spirits, etc. exist is if the person actually experiences contact with God/gods/spirits, etc.
Mohammed had a dialogue with Allah. Therefore, the Koran. He had a revelation.
Jesus of Nazareth experienced a communion with a God as well. He was tired of all the corruption of the Jewish establishment at that time. He consulted with his God for a solution to this, I suppose. He had a revelation. He gathered together disciples. The Romans (and the Jewish establishment--not the Jews per se!) didn't like what was going on. He was executed on a cross. Hence: Christianity.
There's nothing to argue. Religion is a matter of faith. I don't happen to have any faith in the existence of a God/gods/spirits, etc.
I believe theology in all its aspects is fascinating. Creation myths are fascinating.
If someone else does, it's cool by me (unless the person tries to enforce a law which obligates one to believe in God/gods/spirits, etc. THAT is something which is worth arguing about.
Is this seriously all you've got? Frankly I find this latest addition to be a near-indirect admission that you can't meet my challenge. From what I can see, you're all talk but no walk, and you also don't have content to back up those massively over-reaching claims. If you want to go about saying a specific religion is wrong or incorrect, be my guest. But making threads telling us "you are wasting your time and allowing yourself to be a thrall to a made up concept" and calling us all "slave[s] to a make believe belief" then saying "science has proven it" yet **failing to deliver anything relevant** when someone calls you out on it is just sad, pitiful, and more "failed troll" than "converter of minds".
Our Debating 101 lesson for the day: before you go professing extraordinarily wild claims (such as the ones littered in this thread) to the masses, make sure you are both willing and able to defend said claims against intense scrutiny.
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Last edited by AspieOtaku on 15 Nov 2014, 1:26 am, edited 7 times in total.
To be honest they probably wouldn't believe it. And I doubt many militant atheists would believe it if the opposite happened. Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, you know.
are you kidding? to say (militant) atheists wouldn't believe when faced with evidence i find just absurd.
do you really think that? as a rational person (as i think atheists, especially militant as they're more likely to be serious about it, tend to be), I would start believing in a heartbeat.
however for instance if it turned out to be the christian one I wouldn't become a christian as I find that god absolutely disgusting.
To be honest they probably wouldn't believe it. And I doubt many militant atheists would believe it if the opposite happened. Confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, you know.
are you kidding? to say (militant) atheists wouldn't believe when faced with evidence i find just absurd.
do you really think that? as a rational person (as i think atheists, especially militant as they're more likely to be serious about it, tend to be), I would start believing in a heartbeat.
however for instance if it turned out to be the christian one I wouldn't become a christian as I find that god absolutely disgusting.
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Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
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You are very likely an aspie
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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODetOE6cbbc[/youtube]God and gods were created..by people!
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techstepgenr8tion
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Probably important to point out - back then people were far from idiots, particularly on the social level and knowing when they were getting scammed. If anything got tweaked to look oblong it was our mythological narratives. Think the kind of sanitary bleaching that we give kids on relations between the Native Americans and the European settlers or the flavor of the Revolutionary War - things that only happened a couple hundred years ago - and you can only imagine the largest religion in the west having its narrative getting Madison Avenued a mile wide.
Probably important to point out - back then people were far from idiots, particularly on the social level and knowing when they were getting scammed. If anything got tweaked to look oblong it was our mythological narratives. Think the kind of sanitary bleaching that we give kids on relations between the Native Americans and the European settlers or the flavor of the Revolutionary War - things that only happened a couple hundred years ago - and you can only imagine the largest religion in the west having its narrative getting Madison Avenued a mile wide.
_________________
Your Aspie score is 193 of 200
Your neurotypical score is 40 of 200
You are very likely an aspie
No matter where I go I will always be a Gaijin even at home. Like Anime? https://kissanime.to/AnimeList
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