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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Apr 2015, 10:40 am

0_equals_true wrote:
Astrology get the number, the position, and periods of the constellations wrong, and is out of date by about 2,000 years.

That isn't even getting in the absurd notion that is somehow related to you personality becuase you were born in this arbitrary period.

It is nothing but cold reading. You read what you want to read into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw

If you go by Hindu or Vedic Astrology, you might discover you are actually the sign before yours. In Vedic, I have sun in Leo while going by tropical astrology, it's in Virgo.

Vedic is the more accurate system but it's also really depressing because one little glitch in your chart and you don't stand a chance.



Lazar_Kaganovich
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18 Apr 2015, 11:02 am

Fnord wrote:
Ad Hominem much? :roll:



Perhaps....... :wink:

But I noticed that you play cynic with other peoples claims but p**** out when someone demands that you back up your OWN claims that free with is a reality while not providing one iota of evidence. It does *wonders* for your credibility.

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I once pitched a made-up Astrology method that included 13 "houses" instead of the usual 12. I also wrote and used a computer-based astrology program to determine the positions of the sun, moon, and planets at the times of the customer's births. The Barnum Statements were chosen at random from a database of similar statements taken from 10 years of daily horoscopes printed in the local newspaper.

My customers were willing to pay twice as much for my natal horoscopes; sometimes, even more!

It all depends on the strength of your sales pitch and the weakness of your customers' minds.


Image



0_equals_true
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18 Apr 2015, 11:06 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If you go by Hindu or Vedic Astrology, you might discover you are actually the sign before yours. In Vedic, I have sun in Leo while going by tropical astrology, it's in Virgo.

Vedic is the more accurate system but it's also really depressing because one little glitch in your chart and you don't stand a chance.


It is not your chart. Has nothing to do with you.

You were missing the point of what I'm saying as constellation are changing position over the millennia due to precession, in fact if the s continue the shape of them will not be the same, that they wll not longer resemble there symbols. It is also not 12.

Think about t, if you look through your bedroom window and see a magpie, eating a shrew. Is personally related to you? You might be able to relate to it, sure, but it didn't happen becuase of your and you aren't there becuase of it.

Consolations are just patterns of stars, these start aren't even related to each other, they can be tens to hundred of light years apart.

Not only do they not have much relevance to you they don't have much relevance to each other. It s just a way of mapping the the sky, which they used before then knew what they were looking at.

f they had no idea what they were observing, how could they possibly know so much about how t relates to people. t s pure speculation.

Astrology attempts to make something absolute out of something entirely relative.



0_equals_true
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18 Apr 2015, 11:09 am

Fnord wrote:
My customers were willing to pay twice as much for my natal horoscopes; sometimes, even more!

It all depends on the strength of your sales pitch and the weakness of your customers' minds.


Did you actually take their money? That is fraud.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Apr 2015, 11:11 am

0_equals_true wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If you go by Hindu or Vedic Astrology, you might discover you are actually the sign before yours. In Vedic, I have sun in Leo while going by tropical astrology, it's in Virgo.

Vedic is the more accurate system but it's also really depressing because one little glitch in your chart and you don't stand a chance.


It is not your chart. Has nothing to do with you.

You were missing the point of what I'm saying as constellation are changing position over the millennia due to precession, in fact if the s continue the shape of them will not be the same, that they wll not longer resemble there symbols. It is also not 12.

Think about t, if you look through your bedroom window and see a magpie, eating a shrew. Is personally related to you? You might be able to relate to it, sure, but it didn't happen becuase of your and you aren't there becuase of it.

Consolations are just patterns of stars, these start aren't even related to each other, they can be tens to hundred of light years apart.

Not only do they not have much relevance to you they don't have much relevance to each other. It s just a way of mapping the the sky, which they used before then knew what they were looking at.

f they had no idea what they were observing, how could they possibly know so much about how t relates to people. t s pure speculation.


Astrology attempts to make something absolute out of something entirely relative.


There's lots of things I think have nothing to do with me, like Bible stories that happened thousands of years ago yet people in my area, some of them, are completely obsessed with them. We choose our own obsessions. Astrology was just interesting, that's why I began reading about it.



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18 Apr 2015, 11:20 am

Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
This is coming from a guy who claims that free will is an established fact yet has not provided a shred of evidence backing up his claim...... :roll:

The evidence that favors free will is extremely weak. Whereas the evidence against free will is mounting.


I never understood the whole argument surrounding this. Christianity for instance is deterministic (God's will) yet inexplicably people are responsible for their actions, so it is a bit of having the cake and eating too as far as free will is concerned.

I don't see how having on position on this, lend itself the the moral high ground.

Free wlll only exists in a relative sense. In mind's eye (frontal lobe). Nature is subject to chaos, but we also have development, based on genetics an nurture. This is incredibly obvious, IMO.

It is all about relativism, how as far as society is concerned you still make choices. You are are the person, your frontal lobe, and physiology projects. So in that sense you are responsible for the choices you make, as in most case you are are aware of your actions. Self awareness is part and parcel of the 'self' part of the brain. You can't divorce the two.



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18 Apr 2015, 11:21 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There's lots of things I think have nothing to do with me, like Bible stories that happened thousands of years ago yet people in my area, some of them, are completely obsessed with them. We choose our own obsessions. Astrology was just interesting, that's why I began reading about it.

Try Astronomy, Astrology is a snooze-fest in comparison.



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18 Apr 2015, 11:35 am

But you don't see an astrology inquisition breaking folks on the rack, nor do you see astrology suicide bombers.

Its just harmless cotten candy.

But on the other hand it is junk food.

When you were born the body of the obstetrician standing next to your mom had more gravitional pull on you, than did the planet Mars that was in your "house". And the bed next to your mom's bed had more gravitational effect on you than did the super black hole in the center of the galaxy even if you're Sagitarius! So how can Mars, or the super black hole, effect your destiny?



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18 Apr 2015, 11:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
But you don't see an astrology inquisition breaking folks on the rack, nor do you see astrology suicide bombers. Its just harmless cotten candy. But on the other hand it is junk food. When you were born the body of the obstetrician standing next to your mom had more gravitional pull on you, than did the planet Mars that was in your "house". And the bed next to your mom's bed had more gravitational effect on you than did the super black hole in the center of the galaxy even if you're Sagitarius! So how can Mars, or the super black hole, effect your destiny?

the "gravitational" deal is a canard, the whole object of the zodiac is merely to serve as a "coming attractions" billboard in the sky for humans to use to 1]make sense out of their often mysteriously fickle affairs, and 2] time their affairs in rhythm with a heretofore unseen [and un-seeable] cosmic schedule so as to maximize harmony in life.



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18 Apr 2015, 11:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
But you don't see an astrology inquisition breaking folks on the rack, nor do you see astrology suicide bombers.

Its just harmless cotten candy.


It is not in the same league granted, but it has the potential to be exploitative and a form of fraud.

Not every is using it as a curio they read in their weekly paper, they are taking more serious that that, and can hand over a fair bit of money.



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18 Apr 2015, 11:51 am

auntblabby wrote:
the "gravitational" deal is a canard, the whole object of the zodiac is merely to serve as a "coming attractions" billboard in the sky for humans to use to 1]make sense out of their often mysteriously fickle affairs, and 2] time their affairs in rhythm with a heretofore unseen [and un-seeable] cosmic schedule so as to maximize harmony in life.


Nature is not in harmony. The idea of harmonious nature is flawed. There are symbiotic relationships that exist for a period of time. There is some order in nature but this not permanent, and not part of an overall "self-righting" system.

People who are adaptable and resilient will cope better. However there is some anecdotal evidence that unhappy people may live as long if not longer.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Apr 2015, 12:01 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
There's lots of things I think have nothing to do with me, like Bible stories that happened thousands of years ago yet people in my area, some of them, are completely obsessed with them. We choose our own obsessions. Astrology was just interesting, that's why I began reading about it.

Try Astronomy, Astrology is a snooze-fest in comparison.

I like both. Astronomy would be more interesting if it were easier to travel to distant planets though, and if these planets were places we could actually visit without dissolving, imploding or exploding.



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18 Apr 2015, 12:04 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I like both. Astronomy would be more interesting if it were easier to travel to distant planets though, and if these planets were places we could actually visit without dissolving, imploding or exploding.


Yes but you are learning the real reason behind the fragility of life, and the building blocks of life.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Apr 2015, 12:22 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I like both. Astronomy would be more interesting if it were easier to travel to distant planets though, and if these planets were places we could actually visit without dissolving, imploding or exploding.


Yes but you are learning the real reason behind the fragility of life, and the building blocks of life.

I like both. I am not incredibly serious about astrology but it's fun to tell people about it and hear them say, that sounds familiar.

Sometimes, a subject is enjoyable just because it's entertaining.



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18 Apr 2015, 5:34 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Fnord wrote:
My customers were willing to pay twice as much for my natal horoscopes; sometimes, even more! It all depends on the strength of your sales pitch and the weakness of your customers' minds.
Did you actually take their money? That is fraud.
I actually took their money, under a legally-obtained business license, and "For Entertainment Purposes Only" (as the signs on the wall so stated). I would also preface each reading with the statement "I'm not really a psychic", and my horoscope castings with "I don't actually believe in this stuff". If anyone wanted to charge me with fraud, they would have had a tough time making it stick.

Here's the crux: These statement seemed to have the opposite effect -- the same people kept coming back, and some even brought friends with them. My clientele just kept growing, despite all of my disclaimers and self-deprecating statements! They paid for readings and horoscopes, and I gave them what they wanted - all fair and legal.

It just goes to show that even in the face of denial, people will still believe in their own fantasies.



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18 Apr 2015, 6:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
0_equals_true wrote:
Fnord wrote:
My customers were willing to pay twice as much for my natal horoscopes; sometimes, even more! It all depends on the strength of your sales pitch and the weakness of your customers' minds.
Did you actually take their money? That is fraud.
I actually took their money, under a legally-obtained business license, and "For Entertainment Purposes Only" (as the signs on the wall so stated). I would also preface each reading with the statement "I'm not really a psychic", and my horoscope castings with "I don't actually believe in this stuff". If anyone wanted to charge me with fraud, they would have had a tough time making it stick.

Here's the crux: These statement seemed to have the opposite effect -- the same people kept coming back, and some even brought friends with them. My clientele just kept growing, despite all of my disclaimers and self-deprecating statements! They paid for readings and horoscopes, and I gave them what they wanted - all fair and legal.

It just goes to show that even in the face of denial, people will still believe in their own fantasies.


I did actually go to a psychic once to have a reading done. There were cards and crystals etc. I didn't go because I believe in psychics or astrology. I went because I wanted a fresh perspective on some problems I was having without paying 300$/hr (although possibly covered by insurance) to a shrink. I just wanted a quickie perspective. Why a psychic? Because they don't read minds or the future but well established ones who see people in person (she'd been there for years) are good at reading body language and tone. I wanted 30$ worth of somebody figuring out why I was feeling down by reading my body language and tone and if she dressed it up in woo that was just part of the price.

Her method was throwing down cards and woo and looking at my palm while asking leading questions. I assume that she was actually reading my reaction to the questions and that was what I was actually intentionally paying for.

It's possible that some of them were possibly paying you for a similar service and putting up with woo as an agreed-upon game for what I hope was decent advice that you gave them.