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auntblabby
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17 Apr 2015, 4:27 pm

I believe he was expressing irony. and btw, a relative of acupuncture worked for me, and that is all that matters to me.



naturalplastic
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17 Apr 2015, 5:06 pm

Yeah. I kinda thought that he was being sarcastic, but it is kinda hard to tell.



Lazar_Kaganovich
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17 Apr 2015, 7:15 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
I'm a Sagittarius, the only sign of the Zodiac with a black hole(that we know of). Even if other signs have them, Sagittarius has the closest SUPERMASSIVE black hole to Earth and that makes it pretty unique. 8)

am one also, though some might say I was really an ophiuchus as I was born early in the Sagittarius month. can you tell me what quality would you say the black hole adds to Sagittarius?



The 13th zodiac sign was a hoax. But AFAIK, it is those born during the 3rd stage of Sagittarius(December 12th to December 21st) where the Sun appears to transit through Sagittarius A*. Google Sagittarius A* to learn more.



auntblabby
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17 Apr 2015, 7:26 pm

mr. google says sag A is at the border between sag and scorpio. I was earlier led to believe it was an overlap of the last decan of scorpion and the first of sag. obviously I'm no expert in this, though. :oops:



XJ220RACER
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17 Apr 2015, 10:33 pm

Lazar_Kaganovich wrote:
I'm a Sagittarius, the only sign of the Zodiac with a black hole(that we know of). Even if other signs have them, Sagittarius has the closest SUPERMASSIVE black hole to Earth and that makes it pretty unique. 8)


Yes, at the Galactic Center of the Milky Way at 26 degrees Sagittarius. On my birthchart - my Sun, Mercury, Venus and Mars are all conjunct (within 5 degrees) of the GC.

Astrologers believe that one with such a heavy influence of the GC - which is mostly Sagittarians, but also 26 degrees of any of the mutable constellations (Gemini, Virgo, Sag, Pisces) - will feel a certain pull away from the rest of humanity, a certain alienation. Just a quick overview of Virgo or Sag traits - they are the two most intellectual signs, and the two that are most concerned with some specific pursuit, especially one of knowledge. This makes it all very easy to see something like a point towards AS or some other happening where some kind of exaggerated mental ability overtakes other, more practical or material, functions of life - this is one of the things symbolized in the human/animal question of the centaur (the Sagittarian character) And that Virgo is the sign to pick apart the functions of everyday life, especially health, suggests a certain disconnection, that gave way to the observant/analytical tendency.

This is not to say that there is a cause for AS in the stars but astrology has taught me infinitely more about myself than any medical diagnosis ever could. So, if nothing else, accepting myself through the sky is a lot better for me than accepting myself through the DSM-IV. It was also the first (and only) way I've been able to pick people apart and see any individuality in them. So I absolutely do not care what scientists at a closed off NASA lab say, it works in my own personal experience, and that is the true test of what I will believe in and employ in my world view.

I could also get into how it has withstood millennia of wear and cultural diffusion, while everything the modern world (especially America) creates is completely unsustainable and ends up destroying itself, like scientific criticism may end up doing. But I'll just leave it at that it works for me.


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17 Apr 2015, 11:39 pm

Astrology is to science as religion is to medicine.

Having successfully run the Psychic Con under a legal business license, I can honestly say that the only thing real thing about Astrology is the huge amount of money you can make from selling hand-drawn Natal Charts to anyone gullible enough to buy them.

Everyone is seeking something to believe in, and there is a seeker born every minute.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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17 Apr 2015, 11:48 pm

Fnord wrote:
Astrology is to science as religion is to medicine.

Having successfully run the Psychic Con under a legal business license, I can honestly say that the only thing real thing about Astrology is the huge amount of money you can make from selling hand-drawn Natal Charts to anyone gullible enough to buy them.

Everyone is seeking something to believe in, and there is a seeker born every minute.

Yeah and a lot of people do not even know what the symbols of the signs and planets are so they are pretty much looking at a foreign language when they view a natal chart. Charts are neat.



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18 Apr 2015, 12:46 am

Acupuncture does work and this is scientifically proven...but it is not very effective or a cure-all as its traditional practitioners claim it does. Why it works is still being investigated but so far it has something to do with the way the nerves and the brain interact to release hormones, endorphins and other good stuff. It involves the immune system response too.

From what I remember reading, the needles being placed on you in certain patterns trigger certain responses which can be beneficial or harmful to you. The most common one is pain relief that comes from multiple needles triggering feel-good, pain numbing endorphin release in the brain (similar to tapping the bone behind your ear to ease car/seasickness). The nerves 'hit' by the needle take a couple of days to heal..you dont feel it but the nerves keep triggering the response until they heal up. Good for business too since the person has to return for sessions if they need further relief.

It does work but not for everything nor is it a mystical healing art. It just triggers uses the body's own responses to help in healing...which in itself is nifty and impressive.



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18 Apr 2015, 12:56 am

Fnord wrote:
Astrology is to science as religion is to medicine.

Having successfully run the Psychic Con under a legal business license, I can honestly say that the only thing real thing about Astrology is the huge amount of money you can make from selling hand-drawn Natal Charts to anyone gullible enough to buy them.

Everyone is seeking something to believe in, and there is a seeker born every minute.


Bull crap; I've already explained in detail in a post that was removed how the placebo and nocebo effect and affect is a real scientific method measure deal associated directly on TOPIC with ASTROLOGY.

And the emoting emotion of belief is also a real deal that underlies all so-called woo of real affect and effect of the real emoting emotions of faith, belief, and hope, when one greater utilizes physical intelligence to regulate emotions and integrate senses.

The only APPRECIABLE difference between me and you, ASSOCIATED WITH THIS, is, I never attempt to make money off of other people who have the ability to believe, using the 'charlatan procedures' you seem proud of above, in what you seem to think is taking advantage of people you THINK are not as smart as you in mechanical cognition; but my friend you seem to be totally missing the FEELING emoting emotional boat of life;

As science shows that only around one third of the population, these days even experience the power of the emotion of belief, PER THE PLACEBO EFFECT AND AFFECT.

Without the empowering emoting forces of THE EMOTIONS OF faith, belief, and hope there is darkness;

With IT heaven CAN BE now.

And truly SOME other folks

CANNOT SEE

through an opaque window

of hell, to use that metaphor.

It is up to you; in your attempts to live wherever the blank you decide to go....

But you are not taking the rest of us folks; with the emoting emotions of faith, hope and belief, WITH YOU,
whether that comes through symbols of astrology or frigging religion; BELIEF IS REAL AND A GAME CHANGER;

TO PARAPHRASE THE ORACLE AT THE END AND BEGINNING
OF THE MATRIX TRILOGY, WITH SMILES, AS WELL..:)


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aghogday
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18 Apr 2015, 1:07 am

Dantac wrote:
Acupuncture does work and this is scientifically proven...but it is not very effective or a cure-all as its traditional practitioners claim it does. Why it works is still being investigated but so far it has something to do with the way the nerves and the brain interact to release hormones, endorphins and other good stuff. It involves the immune system response too.

From what I remember reading, the needles being placed on you in certain patterns trigger certain responses which can be beneficial or harmful to you. The most common one is pain relief that comes from multiple needles triggering feel-good, pain numbing endorphin release in the brain (similar to tapping the bone behind your ear to ease car/seasickness). The nerves 'hit' by the needle take a couple of days to heal..you dont feel it but the nerves keep triggering the response until they heal up. Good for business too since the person has to return for sessions if they need further relief.

It does work but not for everything nor is it a mystical healing art. It just triggers uses the body's own responses to help in healing...which in itself is nifty and impressive.


QFT.

And additionally that internal healing power can be practiced

and improved USING GREATER PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE

to produce what looks like real LIFE natural miracles,

UTILIZING WHATEVER METHOD WORKS.

I prove that everyday AND EVERYNOW of my life,

irrefutably so, in documented evidence;

As in every human experience IT IS a spectrum of experience and potential;

more fully realized or NOT, by THE NAYSAYERS or YAYSAYERS OF well-being..:)


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18 Apr 2015, 1:58 am

Fnord wrote:
Astrology is to science as religion is to medicine.

Having successfully run the Psychic Con under a legal business license, I can honestly say that the only thing real thing about Astrology is the huge amount of money you can make from selling hand-drawn Natal Charts to anyone gullible enough to buy them.

Everyone is seeking something to believe in, and there is a seeker born every minute.


"Sell me this pen." (Wolf of Wall Street)



Fnord
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18 Apr 2015, 8:47 am

Astrology is the mass cultural delusion that the apparent position of the sun and planets relative to arbitrarily defined "star signs" at the time of your birth somehow affects your personality. Stripped of any fancier and woo-like terms, Astrology is the belief that huge balls of rocks, liquids, gases, and nuclear fusion reactions millions or billions of miles away from Earth can affect the financial, sexual, emotional, and employment situations of individual carbon-based life forms on one specific planet.

Astrology has never produced any worthwhile and conclusive predictions, in spite of having several different formulations across disparate cultures. As far as astrology produces falsifiable predictions, it has been thoroughly falsified as no better than guesswork. As all the "evidence" is only anecdotal, selectively reported, or made up, it is an excellent example of a woo explanation for something thoroughly mundane.

The scientific view, in the most candid form, is that Astrology is a load of ancient nonsense that is, these days, perpetrated by ignorant fools or those wishing to exploit others (e.g., the Profit Motive); in other words, crap.

As a demonstration of how people can easily be "tricked" into thinking a horoscope is accurate, a number of students (~30) were asked their zodiac and given what hey were told was the appropriate horoscope to read. They were then asked to grade how accurate they felt the horoscope was regarding their selves and a significant number, if not the majority, gave their horoscopes the maximum score. Later they were asked to pass along their personal horoscope to the person behind them where the "trick" was revealed -- they had all been given the same horoscope! This is a demonstration of the Forer effect and how the language used in horoscopes can be vague and widely applicable to many people yet still give the illusion of being very specific. With a careful selection of language, phrases and tone, it is almost impossible for a horoscope to not to be applicable to someone.

Here is a sample of such a Horoscope:

You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself. While you have some personality weaknesses you are generally able to compensate for them. You have considerable unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage. Disciplined and self-controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure on the inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You also pride yourself as an independent thinker; and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. But you have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, and sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, and reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be rather unrealistic.

These are called "Barnum Statements", and if even one of them applies to you, then I claim total accuracy, and my methods are just as good (or bad) as any other astrologer's. Astrology is all about selling you a collection of Barnum Statements, and manipulating you into convincing yourself that each one applies only to you. The natal charts are mere props that may or may not provide an accurate depiction of planetary alignments at your birth -- most astrologers I've known use either an out-dated ephemeris, or no ephemeris at all!

"There's a sucker born every minute." -- David Hannum, in criticism of both P. T. Barnum, an American showman of the mid 1800s, and his customers.



Lazar_Kaganovich
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18 Apr 2015, 8:50 am

Fnord wrote:
Astrology is the mass cultural delusion that the apparent position of the sun and planets relative to arbitrarily defined "star signs" at the time of your birth somehow affects your personality. Stripped of any fancier and woo-like terms, Astrology is the belief that huge balls of rocks, liquids, gases, and nuclear fusion reactions millions or billions of miles away from Earth can affect the financial, sexual, emotional, and employment situations of individual carbon-based life forms on one specific planet.

Astrology has never produced any worthwhile and conclusive predictions, in spite of having several different formulations across disparate cultures. As far as astrology produces falsifiable predictions, it has been thoroughly falsified as no better than guesswork. As all the "evidence" is only anecdotal, selectively reported, or made up, it is an excellent example of a woo explanation for something thoroughly mundane.

The scientific view, in the most candid form, is that Astrology is a load of ancient nonsense that is, these days, perpetrated by ignorant fools or those wishing to exploit others (e.g., the Profit Motive); in other words, crap.

As a demonstration, of how people can basically be "tricked" into thinking a horoscope is accurate, a number of students were asked their zodiac and given what hey were told was the appropriate horoscope to read. They were then asked to grade how accurate they felt the horoscope was regarding their selves and a significant number, if not the majority, gave their horoscopes the maximum score. Later they were asked to pass along their personal horoscope to the person behind them where the "trick" was revealed -- they had all been given the same horoscope! This is a demonstration of the Forer effect and how the language used in horoscopes can be vague and widely applicable to many people yet still give the illusion of being very specific. With a careful selection of language, phrases and tone, it is almost impossible for a horoscope to not to be applicable to someone.

Here is a sample of such a Horoscope:

You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself. While you have some personality weaknesses you are generally able to compensate for them. You have considerable unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage. Disciplined and self-controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure on the inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You also pride yourself as an independent thinker; and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. But you have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, and sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, and reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be rather unrealistic.

These are called "Barnum Statements", and if even one of them applies to you, then I claim total accuracy, and my methods are just as good (or bad) as any other astrologer's. Astrology is all about selling you a collection of Barnum Statements, and manipulating you into convincing yourself that each one applies only to you. The natal charts are mere props that may or may not provide an accurate depiction of planetary alignments at your birth -- most astrologers I've known use either an out-dated ephemeris, or no ephemeris at all!

"There's a sucker born every minute." -- David Hannum, in criticism of both P. T. Barnum, an American showman of the mid 1800s, and his customers.



This is coming from a guy who claims that free will is an established fact yet has not provided a shred of evidence backing up his claim...... :roll:

The evidence that favors free will is extremely weak. Whereas the evidence against free will is mounting.



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18 Apr 2015, 8:58 am

Ad Hominem much? :roll:

I once pitched a made-up Astrology method that included 13 "houses" instead of the usual 12. I also wrote and used a computer-based astrology program to determine the positions of the sun, moon, and planets at the times of the customer's births. The Barnum Statements were chosen at random from a database of similar statements taken from 10 years of daily horoscopes printed in the local newspaper.

My customers were willing to pay twice as much for my natal horoscopes; sometimes, even more!

It all depends on the strength of your sales pitch and the weakness of your customers' minds.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Apr 2015, 9:05 am

Fnord wrote:
Astrology is the mass cultural delusion that the apparent position of the sun and planets relative to arbitrarily defined "star signs" at the time of your birth somehow affects your personality. Stripped of any fancier and woo-like terms, Astrology is the belief that huge balls of rocks, liquids, gases, and nuclear fusion reactions millions or billions of miles away from Earth can affect the financial, sexual, emotional, and employment situations of individual carbon-based life forms on one specific planet.

Astrology has never produced any worthwhile and conclusive predictions, in spite of having several different formulations across disparate cultures. As far as astrology produces falsifiable predictions, it has been thoroughly falsified as no better than guesswork. As all the "evidence" is only anecdotal, selectively reported, or made up, it is an excellent example of a woo explanation for something thoroughly mundane.

The scientific view, in the most candid form, is that Astrology is a load of ancient nonsense that is, these days, perpetrated by ignorant fools or those wishing to exploit others (e.g., the Profit Motive); in other words, crap.

As a demonstration of how people can easily be "tricked" into thinking a horoscope is accurate, a number of students (~30) were asked their zodiac and given what hey were told was the appropriate horoscope to read. They were then asked to grade how accurate they felt the horoscope was regarding their selves and a significant number, if not the majority, gave their horoscopes the maximum score. Later they were asked to pass along their personal horoscope to the person behind them where the "trick" was revealed -- they had all been given the same horoscope! This is a demonstration of the Forer effect and how the language used in horoscopes can be vague and widely applicable to many people yet still give the illusion of being very specific. With a careful selection of language, phrases and tone, it is almost impossible for a horoscope to not to be applicable to someone.

Here is a sample of such a Horoscope:

You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself. While you have some personality weaknesses you are generally able to compensate for them. You have considerable unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage. Disciplined and self-controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure on the inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You also pride yourself as an independent thinker; and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. But you have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, and sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, and reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be rather unrealistic.

These are called "Barnum Statements", and if even one of them applies to you, then I claim total accuracy, and my methods are just as good (or bad) as any other astrologer's. Astrology is all about selling you a collection of Barnum Statements, and manipulating you into convincing yourself that each one applies only to you. The natal charts are mere props that may or may not provide an accurate depiction of planetary alignments at your birth -- most astrologers I've known use either an out-dated ephemeris, or no ephemeris at all!

"There's a sucker born every minute." -- David Hannum, in criticism of both P. T. Barnum, an American showman of the mid 1800s, and his customers.


Some people like it and it's not stomping on anyone's rights like certain other religions so what does it matter? It's not the worst thing to like. I wouldn't suggest losing all reason and spending thousands of dollars on it, but when you look at the fact people are willing to spend it on televangelism, which is worse?



0_equals_true
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18 Apr 2015, 10:33 am

Astrology get the number, the position, and periods of the constellations wrong, and is out of date by about 2,000 years.

That isn't even getting in the absurd notion that is somehow related to you personality becuase you were born in this arbitrary period.

It is nothing but cold reading. You read what you want to read into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r70HsEvNRck