Why the Ancient Alien Theory could be possible.

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Kraichgauer
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18 Nov 2014, 11:57 am

ruveyn wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Daniken is outlandish at times but I wouldn't discount all of what he proposes merely because he tries so hard to make all of it fit that he stretches the boundaries of reality into dimensions that are simply false. It still doesn't mean it is impossible for us to venture to a new home, one in which we did not evolve, somehow forget we are newcomers over the generations and mistakenly believe we are from that new planet. It does bring to mind how capable mankind is at keeping accurate information flowing through the ages. So far, humans have not done a very good job of it. Would it be possible for us, as a species, to keep the knowledge alive for thousands. perhaps millions of years so that generations would know they did not fully evolve on so and so planet? What if we evolve into something else and just somehow forget what we were before? Humans today must unearth evidence to find out more about our origins. We do not have records and are not born knowing.


Von Danikens output does not meet minimal standadrs of scholarship in history, paleontology, archeology or just plain physical science. His notion that the Ark of the Covenant was a transmitter of some sort is just utter nonsense.

He liberally mixes unbridled speculation with a very think mixture of fact.

In a word, von Daniken is a BS artist, but his books sell well to the gullible and scientifically ignorant folks who are clearly in the majority.

ruveyn


My late Godfather, who was a chemist and who had a great grasp for theology for a layman and thus should have known better, had actually fallen for that crap.


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18 Nov 2014, 1:05 pm

slenkar wrote:
The dates of the pyramids are disputed.

The flood myths all over the world usually have a 'Noah' figure who collects animals/supplies into a boat because he is told to.

This is too coincidental to be independent floods.

The Indian one is very similar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sraddhadeva_Manu

The African one too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths


Hawaii one of the most isolated places in the world has the same thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu%27u

Pyramid of the Sun in Mexico footprint is 49729 sqm
Pyramid of Giza in Egypt footprint is 52900 sqm
94% similar
pretty darn close for two buildings built by different civilizations that had no contact with each other.

Skyscrapers around the world of similar height probably have similar footprint sizes,

They are built by people who learn Architecture from Universities that use Global standards of building design.

Each skyscraper is different just as the pyramids around the world have differences. But they are constructed based on a global agreed best practice.


Excuse me.

The Pyramid of the Sun at Teotiahucan is 233 feet tall.

The Great Pyramid at Giza is 480 feet tall.

One is more than twice as tall as the other!

And you're trying to palm the two structures off as being SIMILAR????

That on top of the fact that they dont look anything alike in archetecture.

They're clearly the products of different cultures.

If you and I were "94 percent alike" in hieght that would mean that we were six percent DIFFERENT in hieght. No one would consider us "similar in height".

Hundreds of pyramids, and you find two that have "similar" footprint sizes- that are still six percent different? What is THAT supposed to prove?



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18 Nov 2014, 9:20 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Are you kidding me? Advanced civilizations have been lost time and time again. We unearth them then struggle to figure out what made the people in such civilizations tick. You might think just because we are experiencing advances in the developed world it would be impossible for us to ever go backwards and we will just keep building on what we know now forever and ever but history has shown this as a rule does not happen.


What we are talking about is a far cry from losing any knowledge of the Incas. Rather, what we are talking about when we talk about interstellar travel is a highly advanced civilization that is not subject to famine (how else would they sustain themselves during such an exodus). What you are referring to are momentary lapses and the trend has still always been that civilization rebounds and advances above and beyond the former state, that is observed just as much as regression.

My main point here is that it stretches the bounds of plausibility to say that a civilization that advanced would regress utterly and lose it's history. Also, depending on which theory of yours that you choose what you are saying clearly contradicts the fossil record. Hominids have been here for millions of years and their line of descent is fairly clear.


It is not that far fetched because we have lost our history many times and may lose it again. Fear seems to be one of the catalysts in the human psyche. Fear really is a destructive state of mind. Pessimism doesn't help either. This leads to overly superstitious states somehow believing that if everyone simply becomes more superstitious, they will be alright. Magical thinking at it's worst.


You haven't constructed a response there at all. What you have done is simply repeated yourself. Please read carefully the specific points I made, instead of supplying the same rebuttal again, a rebuttal that does not at all figure in my points. Fear and pessimism haven't been proven to erase history. What has been proven to erase history is things like famine, political squabbles (e.g. Thutmoses removing images of his mother in Egypt), natural disasters, war (e.g. the burning of the library of Alexandria), etc.

So to keep things on track here is a list of things you haven't cleared up:

1. You haven't supplied a plausible cause.
2. You haven't explained how your theory squares with the fossil record.
3. You haven't explained how multiple civilizations this advanced could be erased from history.
4. Lastly, you haven't supplied an explanation as to how civilizations this advanced might have utterly regressed. Civilizations have regressed, but never has it been observed that a civilization can regress that much. Presumably, when there is such an advanced civilization as one that can achieve interstellar travel, limited resources and natural disasters wouldn't be an issue like it was for the Incas.


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Lukecash12
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18 Nov 2014, 9:24 pm

ruveyn wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Daniken is outlandish at times but I wouldn't discount all of what he proposes merely because he tries so hard to make all of it fit that he stretches the boundaries of reality into dimensions that are simply false. It still doesn't mean it is impossible for us to venture to a new home, one in which we did not evolve, somehow forget we are newcomers over the generations and mistakenly believe we are from that new planet. It does bring to mind how capable mankind is at keeping accurate information flowing through the ages. So far, humans have not done a very good job of it. Would it be possible for us, as a species, to keep the knowledge alive for thousands. perhaps millions of years so that generations would know they did not fully evolve on so and so planet? What if we evolve into something else and just somehow forget what we were before? Humans today must unearth evidence to find out more about our origins. We do not have records and are not born knowing.


Von Danikens output does not meet minimal standadrs of scholarship in history, paleontology, archeology or just plain physical science. His notion that the Ark of the Covenant was a transmitter of some sort is just utter nonsense.

He liberally mixes unbridled speculation with a very thin mixture of fact.

In a word, von Daniken is a BS artist, but his books sell well to the gullible and scientifically ignorant folks who are clearly in the majority.

ruveyn


Thank you, I couldn't have said it better. The solitary fact that so many ancient astronaut theorists still refer back to Von Daniken and that his mug is still on the history channel demonstrates that none of these pseudo-archeologists have any interest in intellectual honesty.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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18 Nov 2014, 10:58 pm

Lukecash12 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Are you kidding me? Advanced civilizations have been lost time and time again. We unearth them then struggle to figure out what made the people in such civilizations tick. You might think just because we are experiencing advances in the developed world it would be impossible for us to ever go backwards and we will just keep building on what we know now forever and ever but history has shown this as a rule does not happen.


What we are talking about is a far cry from losing any knowledge of the Incas. Rather, what we are talking about when we talk about interstellar travel is a highly advanced civilization that is not subject to famine (how else would they sustain themselves during such an exodus). What you are referring to are momentary lapses and the trend has still always been that civilization rebounds and advances above and beyond the former state, that is observed just as much as regression.

My main point here is that it stretches the bounds of plausibility to say that a civilization that advanced would regress utterly and lose it's history. Also, depending on which theory of yours that you choose what you are saying clearly contradicts the fossil record. Hominids have been here for millions of years and their line of descent is fairly clear.


It is not that far fetched because we have lost our history many times and may lose it again. Fear seems to be one of the catalysts in the human psyche. Fear really is a destructive state of mind. Pessimism doesn't help either. This leads to overly superstitious states somehow believing that if everyone simply becomes more superstitious, they will be alright. Magical thinking at it's worst.


You haven't constructed a response there at all. What you have done is simply repeated yourself. Please read carefully the specific points I made, instead of supplying the same rebuttal again, a rebuttal that does not at all figure in my points. Fear and pessimism haven't been proven to erase history. What has been proven to erase history is things like famine, political squabbles (e.g. Thutmoses removing images of his mother in Egypt), natural disasters, war (e.g. the burning of the library of Alexandria), etc.

So to keep things on track here is a list of things you haven't cleared up:

1. You haven't supplied a plausible cause.
2. You haven't explained how your theory squares with the fossil record.
3. You haven't explained how multiple civilizations this advanced could be erased from history.
4. Lastly, you haven't supplied an explanation as to how civilizations this advanced might have utterly regressed. Civilizations have regressed, but never has it been observed that a civilization can regress that much. Presumably, when there is such an advanced civilization as one that can achieve interstellar travel, limited resources and natural disasters wouldn't be an issue like it was for the Incas.


We are having two different conversations. I am talking about humans doing a lousy job of keeping up with their own history. Just having to dig for fossils to explain ourselves and the world around us supports that! If we were doing a good job keeping up with it, there would be no need to dig, would there?

I don't fully support the Ancient Alien theory as it plays out on television which seems to be geared more toward high drama than reality but I won't rule out ETs could have visited at some point and that we could become the ancient aliens ourselves when we colonize other planets.



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19 Nov 2014, 1:19 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Are you kidding me? Advanced civilizations have been lost time and time again. We unearth them then struggle to figure out what made the people in such civilizations tick. You might think just because we are experiencing advances in the developed world it would be impossible for us to ever go backwards and we will just keep building on what we know now forever and ever but history has shown this as a rule does not happen.


What we are talking about is a far cry from losing any knowledge of the Incas. Rather, what we are talking about when we talk about interstellar travel is a highly advanced civilization that is not subject to famine (how else would they sustain themselves during such an exodus). What you are referring to are momentary lapses and the trend has still always been that civilization rebounds and advances above and beyond the former state, that is observed just as much as regression.

My main point here is that it stretches the bounds of plausibility to say that a civilization that advanced would regress utterly and lose it's history. Also, depending on which theory of yours that you choose what you are saying clearly contradicts the fossil record. Hominids have been here for millions of years and their line of descent is fairly clear.


It is not that far fetched because we have lost our history many times and may lose it again. Fear seems to be one of the catalysts in the human psyche. Fear really is a destructive state of mind. Pessimism doesn't help either. This leads to overly superstitious states somehow believing that if everyone simply becomes more superstitious, they will be alright. Magical thinking at it's worst.


You haven't constructed a response there at all. What you have done is simply repeated yourself. Please read carefully the specific points I made, instead of supplying the same rebuttal again, a rebuttal that does not at all figure in my points. Fear and pessimism haven't been proven to erase history. What has been proven to erase history is things like famine, political squabbles (e.g. Thutmoses removing images of his mother in Egypt), natural disasters, war (e.g. the burning of the library of Alexandria), etc.

So to keep things on track here is a list of things you haven't cleared up:

1. You haven't supplied a plausible cause.
2. You haven't explained how your theory squares with the fossil record.
3. You haven't explained how multiple civilizations this advanced could be erased from history.
4. Lastly, you haven't supplied an explanation as to how civilizations this advanced might have utterly regressed. Civilizations have regressed, but never has it been observed that a civilization can regress that much. Presumably, when there is such an advanced civilization as one that can achieve interstellar travel, limited resources and natural disasters wouldn't be an issue like it was for the Incas.


We are having two different conversations. I am talking about humans doing a lousy job of keeping up with their own history. Just having to dig for fossils to explain ourselves and the world around us supports that! If we were doing a good job keeping up with it, there would be no need to dig, would there?

I don't fully support the Ancient Alien theory as it plays out on television which seems to be geared more toward high drama than reality but I won't rule out ETs could have visited at some point and that we could become the ancient aliens ourselves when we colonize other planets.


I'm well aware that it is hard to keep track of history. In fact history and anthropology were my majors at UOP. You, however, are still copping out and have not answered 1-4. How do you come from point A to point B?

Point A: It is hard to keep track of history and there is much of it that has been lost.
Point B: Extremely advanced civilizations collapsed all over the globe and we haven't found any fossils or artifacts, presumably very technologically advanced artifacts.

Please, instead of repeating yourself yet again, try addressing the points that have been made. If I'm willing to extend the same courtesy myself it would behoove you to do the same.


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19 Nov 2014, 3:15 am

i ate a ton of morning glory seeds a while back, tripped balls and thought this through very thoroughly for hours. if other intelligent forms of life are out there, they are light years away from us but nothing can go faster than the speed of light, right? which means we'll never reach them and they'll never reach us, even if they are real. The only explanation from there for all the 'evidence' of aliens in ancient hieroglyphics and all the claimed 'sightings' of UFOs is that aliens are actually time travelling humans from the distant (or maybe not so distant?) future. *BOOM* your minds been blown. 8) 8) 8)


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19 Nov 2014, 8:54 am

slickbacksteve wrote:
i ate a ton of morning glory seeds a while back, tripped balls and thought this through very thoroughly for hours. if other intelligent forms of life are out there, they are light years away from us but nothing can go faster than the speed of light, right? which means we'll never reach them and they'll never reach us, even if they are real. The only explanation from there for all the 'evidence' of aliens in ancient hieroglyphics and all the claimed 'sightings' of UFOs is that aliens are actually time travelling humans from the distant (or maybe not so distant?) future. *BOOM* your minds been blown. 8) 8) 8)




A crazy friend of mine has been saying for years that some spring day he is going to gather morning glory seeds, and gulp down a whole cup of them (per instructions in a book he read) for the mind-expanding effect.

I'll have to tell him that I just talked to someone on the Net who actually did that! Lol!

There was a peak year in UFOs when I was in junior high, and I came up with that as an alternate explanation as well (that UFOs might really be time machines from our own future). This was long before I ever partook of any substences BTW.



Trouble is time travel to the past (to the future might not be so hard) has the same kinda physics constraints as intersteller space travel. Maybe more.

In fact- ironically- they kinda amount to the same thing. The only way we now know to go backward in time is to- travel faster than the speed of light. According to Einstein the closer to the speed of light you get the more time slows down. And when you exceed the SOL time starts to go backward (and you arrive in Paris before you left). So faster than light space travel would BE time travel, and vice versa.



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19 Nov 2014, 5:27 pm

slickbacksteve wrote:
i ate a ton of morning glory seeds a while back, tripped balls and thought this through very thoroughly for hours. if other intelligent forms of life are out there, they are light years away from us but nothing can go faster than the speed of light, right? which means we'll never reach them and they'll never reach us, even if they are real. The only explanation from there for all the 'evidence' of aliens in ancient hieroglyphics and all the claimed 'sightings' of UFOs is that aliens are actually time travelling humans from the distant (or maybe not so distant?) future. *BOOM* your minds been blown. 8) 8) 8)


Scientists talk worm holes and such as a possible way to zoom farther away at a faster rate. Whether that happened or not who knows? It's a matter of just moving forward with what seems like endless amounts of time for generations. On a self contained vessel that is very stable it is possible to live for millions of years and many generations like this? That way, the record stands a good chance of surviving in tact if the species keeping it is in touch with reality but if they say outlandish things, will they simply be dismissed as delusional? What if something happened to destroy to such a civilization and a human like species discovered it only to believe the records they kept were impossible because they were so outlandish only they were the truth?



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19 Nov 2014, 6:12 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
A crazy friend of mine has been saying for years that some spring day he is going to gather morning glory seeds, and gulp down a whole cup of them (per instructions in a book he read) for the mind-expanding effect.

I'll have to tell him that I just talked to someone on the Net who actually did that! Lol!


WELL its been a while since ive done it but eating certain types of morning glory seeds definitely works. i never washed them but your friend probably should so he doesnt swallow all the pesticides and stuff on them. and you can only get that desired effect from like 2 different types of those seeds, a simple google search can help you there. im sure your friend knows that tho if he knows about what happens when you eat them. id just be ready to have an upset stomach. its by far the weakest psychedelic ive tried but still worth checking out. its just that stomach thing when you eat a lot that keeps me from doing it anymore haha.


As far as this time travel theory goes, wormholes are only a theory at this point. possibly even just science fiction, i dont know, so i wouldnt say that disproves the time travel theory. and i realize now the absolute challenge it'd be to create a functional time machine and by the time we'd even be able to construct a functional one, im sure we'd have figured out how to travel unimaginable distances. if anything, travelling those crazy distances would require time travel so i see what you mean when you say they're the same.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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19 Nov 2014, 6:27 pm

I'm an alien


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19 Nov 2014, 6:43 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm an alien


Me too.



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19 Nov 2014, 8:29 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm an alien


I swear I have not heard from you for light years! Where have you been?


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19 Nov 2014, 8:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm an alien


I swear I have not heard from you for light years! Where have you been?


Hobbling around on a cane.


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20 Nov 2014, 12:14 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I'm an alien


I swear I have not heard from you for light years! Where have you been?


Hobbling around on a cane.


What happened? Are you okay?


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20 Nov 2014, 12:49 am

She crashed her vehicle at Rosewell!