10 Dec 2014, 8:35 am
Lukecash12 wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Behold the Clonal quaking aspen tree over 80000 years old some other trees over 8000 years old alone still living! How can such things be if the world is only 6000 years old? There's also the clonal creosote bush over 12000 years old. 
I have no problem with trees being thousands of years old, but that's still a long ways away from millions or billions. As I stated earlier, every piece of data has to be interpreted; fossils and stars don't come with dates stamped on them. There's only two ideologies to choose from when interpreting that data: either the supernatural is possible, or its not. Whichever you start with determines how you react to observable science.That's already way past 6000 though. Plus where is this 5000-6000 figure coming from? Can you tell us that? Because I can: some guys from the late 18th century took the number of generations in Adam's genealogy, then multiplied that number by 40. Sounds pretty arbitrary, right?
Not only that but they were ignorant of the fact that Toledoth/Hebrew-genealogies habitually skip generations, often many generations, only mentioning people who are considered historically significant. Just look at Jesus' genealogies in Matthew and Luke, cross reference them with the names in the OT and you'll notice that there are large gaps.
1) The codification for christians was done by "some guy" in the 17th Centurey (not 18th). His name was bishop Usher. He didnt do any "multiplying". He just counted the begats- and nailed it down. Creation happened the night before September 23rd of 4004 BC (as if God had punched a time clock we he got to work with his lunch pail that day).
2) But Usher's just fine tuned it. According the Hebrew Calender this year is in the upper 5900's (not exactly the same as Usher's figure but roughly the same). Christians and Jews alike both operated under the assumption that the world was a few thousand years old (starting around 4000 BC) for centuries before Usher-- even if they didnt agree to the exact decade or year.
3) However- the modern radio evangelist Harold Camping (the guy who told us all that the world was going to end a couple years back) found some imaginative new way to interpret scripture which pushes the date of Creation back to 18,000 years ago. Not quite four and half billion. But still I guess that it does give you SOME wiggle room! lol!
10 Dec 2014, 3:27 pm
naturalplastic wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Behold the Clonal quaking aspen tree over 80000 years old some other trees over 8000 years old alone still living! How can such things be if the world is only 6000 years old? There's also the clonal creosote bush over 12000 years old.
I have no problem with trees being thousands of years old, but that's still a long ways away from millions or billions. As I stated earlier, every piece of data has to be interpreted; fossils and stars don't come with dates stamped on them. There's only two ideologies to choose from when interpreting that data: either the supernatural is possible, or its not. Whichever you start with determines how you react to observable science.That's already way past 6000 though. Plus where is this 5000-6000 figure coming from? Can you tell us that? Because I can: some guys from the late 18th century took the number of generations in Adam's genealogy, then multiplied that number by 40. Sounds pretty arbitrary, right?
Not only that but they were ignorant of the fact that Toledoth/Hebrew-genealogies habitually skip generations, often many generations, only mentioning people who are considered historically significant. Just look at Jesus' genealogies in Matthew and Luke, cross reference them with the names in the OT and you'll notice that there are large gaps.
1) The codification for christians was done by "some guy" in the 17th Centurey (not 18th). His name was bishop Usher. He didnt do any "multiplying". He just counted the begats- and nailed it down. Creation happened the night before September 23rd of 4004 BC (as if God had punched a time clock we he got to work with his lunch pail that day).
2) But Usher's just fine tuned it. According the Hebrew Calender this year is in the upper 5900's (not exactly the same as Usher's figure but roughly the same). Christians and Jews alike both operated under the assumption that the world was a few thousand years old (starting around 4000 BC) for centuries before Usher-- even if they didnt agree to the exact decade or year.
3) However- the modern radio evangelist Harold Camping (the guy who told us all that the world was going to end a couple years back) found some imaginative new way to interpret scripture which pushes the date of Creation back to 18,000 years ago. Not quite four and half billion. But still I guess that it does give you SOME wiggle room! lol!
10 Dec 2014, 8:03 pm
Oops I guess they were around before god existed and created the universe! 
Since the universe is only 6000 years old!
11 Dec 2014, 12:50 am
11 Dec 2014, 2:40 am
naturalplastic wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Behold the Clonal quaking aspen tree over 80000 years old some other trees over 8000 years old alone still living! How can such things be if the world is only 6000 years old? There's also the clonal creosote bush over 12000 years old.
I have no problem with trees being thousands of years old, but that's still a long ways away from millions or billions. As I stated earlier, every piece of data has to be interpreted; fossils and stars don't come with dates stamped on them. There's only two ideologies to choose from when interpreting that data: either the supernatural is possible, or its not. Whichever you start with determines how you react to observable science.That's already way past 6000 though. Plus where is this 5000-6000 figure coming from? Can you tell us that? Because I can: some guys from the late 18th century took the number of generations in Adam's genealogy, then multiplied that number by 40. Sounds pretty arbitrary, right?
Not only that but they were ignorant of the fact that Toledoth/Hebrew-genealogies habitually skip generations, often many generations, only mentioning people who are considered historically significant. Just look at Jesus' genealogies in Matthew and Luke, cross reference them with the names in the OT and you'll notice that there are large gaps.
1) The codification for christians was done by "some guy" in the 17th Centurey (not 18th). His name was bishop Usher. He didnt do any "multiplying". He just counted the begats- and nailed it down. Creation happened the night before September 23rd of 4004 BC (as if God had punched a time clock we he got to work with his lunch pail that day).
2) But Usher's just fine tuned it. According the Hebrew Calender this year is in the upper 5900's (not exactly the same as Usher's figure but roughly the same). Christians and Jews alike both operated under the assumption that the world was a few thousand years old (starting around 4000 BC) for centuries before Usher-- even if they didnt agree to the exact decade or year.
3) However- the modern radio evangelist Harold Camping (the guy who told us all that the world was going to end a couple years back) found some imaginative new way to interpret scripture which pushes the date of Creation back to 18,000 years ago. Not quite four and half billion. But still I guess that it does give you SOME wiggle room! lol!
Masoretic Jews don't equal biblical Jews, so I'd like to see some proof that BC Hebrew people felt this way.
11 Dec 2014, 3:35 am
11 Dec 2014, 7:27 pm
Lukecash12 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Lukecash12 wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Behold the Clonal quaking aspen tree over 80000 years old some other trees over 8000 years old alone still living! How can such things be if the world is only 6000 years old? There's also the clonal creosote bush over 12000 years old.
I have no problem with trees being thousands of years old, but that's still a long ways away from millions or billions. As I stated earlier, every piece of data has to be interpreted; fossils and stars don't come with dates stamped on them. There's only two ideologies to choose from when interpreting that data: either the supernatural is possible, or its not. Whichever you start with determines how you react to observable science.That's already way past 6000 though. Plus where is this 5000-6000 figure coming from? Can you tell us that? Because I can: some guys from the late 18th century took the number of generations in Adam's genealogy, then multiplied that number by 40. Sounds pretty arbitrary, right?
Not only that but they were ignorant of the fact that Toledoth/Hebrew-genealogies habitually skip generations, often many generations, only mentioning people who are considered historically significant. Just look at Jesus' genealogies in Matthew and Luke, cross reference them with the names in the OT and you'll notice that there are large gaps.
1) The codification for christians was done by "some guy" in the 17th Centurey (not 18th). His name was bishop Usher. He didnt do any "multiplying". He just counted the begats- and nailed it down. Creation happened the night before September 23rd of 4004 BC (as if God had punched a time clock we he got to work with his lunch pail that day).
2) But Usher's just fine tuned it. According the Hebrew Calender this year is in the upper 5900's (not exactly the same as Usher's figure but roughly the same). Christians and Jews alike both operated under the assumption that the world was a few thousand years old (starting around 4000 BC) for centuries before Usher-- even if they didnt agree to the exact decade or year.
3) However- the modern radio evangelist Harold Camping (the guy who told us all that the world was going to end a couple years back) found some imaginative new way to interpret scripture which pushes the date of Creation back to 18,000 years ago. Not quite four and half billion. But still I guess that it does give you SOME wiggle room! lol!
Masoretic Jews don't equal biblical Jews, so I'd like to see some proof that BC Hebrew people felt this way.
Huh?
Am not talking about any group of before Christ people. Was just talking about the centuries prior to, and the years during, and since Darwin. However if you included the ancient of Hebrews of Judea I dont see what difference it would make to the point.
Not sure what your axe to grind is about making a big distinction between Jews of the OT, and Jews of today. But the Jews of the Iron Age several last centuries before Christ presumably believed either in Genisis, or in some creation story like it. Their cosmology postualated a young Earth- thus they wouldve thought that the earth began a few thousands before their time. They wouldve been YECs.
Actually its the Christians who have trouble getting it straight.
Since September we have been in the Hebrew year 5775. Since the Jews start the odometer at the Creation of the Universe that means creation happened in the year 3761 BC. Not exactly the same as Usher's date of 4004 BC, but pretty close.
However the Byzantine Empire, and a number of Eastern Orthodox churches, date Creation at the year 5509 BC.
It shocked me (shocked! I tell you) to learn that the Earth might be older than Usher said it was!
However-most of that 1500 year discrepancy between the Byzantine figure, and all of the other calculations (like the Jewish, and Usher, calculations) which all hover around 4000 BC - is from one section of the Bible. Its in the linneages of the Patriarchs before the Flood. The Byzantine Bible has a number of the patriarchs living longer that they do in the Jewish and Latin Vulgate Bibles. And it has some of the patriarchs being a 100 years older when they begat their named sons. It all adds up.
The age of the whole Universe gets messed up just because they cant agree on when a number of old guys sired their kids!
Jeeze!
12 Dec 2014, 12:50 am
12 Dec 2014, 5:28 am
16 Dec 2014, 9:10 pm
16 Dec 2014, 10:15 pm
16 Dec 2014, 10:58 pm
16 Dec 2014, 11:04 pm
16 Dec 2014, 11:14 pm
17 Dec 2014, 12:41 am
17 Dec 2014, 3:05 am
Humanaut wrote:
We are going to conquer the world.
Of course the Earth is flat! Everyone knows it because you can see the Sun come up over one edge every morning and see it go down over the other edge every evening!
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