Not being harmful, only because you were told not to be so

Page 1 of 1 [ 9 posts ] 

thinkinginpictures
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 May 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,310

16 Oct 2015, 12:04 pm

If we have two individuals, A and B, who grew up in the very same group which told them not to do harm to other people, and A does not do it because he wouldn't do it anyway, and B refrains from it too, but only because the group told him not to do so, isn't B evil nonetheless, regardless of wether or not he does harm to others? After all, he only refrains from doing harm because the group told him not to, not because he wouldn't do so anyway.

That's my point. I believe that B is evil, regardless of the fact he hasn't done any harm to others, but based off the fact that he would do so, if the group told him so.

True human angels are those who refrain from doing harm unto others (I'm not talking self-defense here), regardless the social context, regardless of the law, regardless of culture.

Apparently society is filled with non-angelic beings, since we have to have a society which have to codify non-harmful behavior.

That is evidence that most people are not angels, but demons.

Otherwise, we wouldn't need a law on violence.

In-fact I believe that with brain scans, at least in the coming years of the technological development, we can actually pinpoint individuals and test if they would refrain from harmful behavior, regardless of the social context (as in: "being told to do so", not anger or self-defense). Then we can preemptively punish them for being born evil.

That would make a huge punishment scene on planet Earth, as I believe most people are born evil, but let the testing begin and let's see for ourselves: How many people would refrain from doing harm onto others, regardless of their culture or religion?

- and let us give those people a Paradise on planet Earth for the rest of their life.

- and to hell with everybody else.

With technology, we shall play God!



cberg
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,183
Location: A swiftly tilting planet

16 Oct 2015, 12:09 pm

You're gonna want to go BCI hackathoning...


_________________
"Standing on a well-chilled cinder, we see the fading of the suns, and try to recall the vanished brilliance of the origin of the worlds."
-Georges Lemaitre
"I fly through hyperspace, in my green computer interface"
-Gem Tos :mrgreen:


techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,195
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

18 Oct 2015, 11:22 am

That whole idea is a eugenic moral monstrosity.

Also have you considered that people can learn or change? What about looking at those 'born evil' as simply younger/weaker brethren who need to be educated by example wherever possible?


_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin


Drake
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,577

18 Oct 2015, 2:33 pm

I disagree strongly with the entire OP.

But something that hasn't been said, how do you make sure the people doing the testing are "good"? Really, I don't think someone truly "good" would involve themselves with this kind of testing, and the gap would be filled with monsters playing God.

If it was possible to detect "thought crime" at all, really the only thing I think of that would be actionable is someone actively seeking to cause harm, so you cut them off before they can carry out their intentions. In the same way as if a plot is discovered by normal means you don't wait for that plot to be carried out. But again, the issue of giving people the power to read minds, that is scary and that kind of power in the wrong hands goes from scary to terrifying.



izzeme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Apr 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,665

19 Oct 2015, 2:51 am

As long as someone doesn't harm someone else, that's good enough for me.
Whether this is due to internal or external morality is not really relevant for day-to-day live.

That said, it does sometimes scare me that some people only behave "good" out of fear for repercussion, especially religeous nuts (not all, just the nuts) that claim atheists have no morals, since they dont need to fear hell...



Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

20 Oct 2015, 1:11 pm

The reason we have laws is because not everyone will do right on their own and law standardizes what is right (although the law isn't always right). It's always been that way and always will be.

Quote:
In-fact I believe that with brain scans, at least in the coming years of the technological development, we can actually pinpoint individuals and test if they would refrain from harmful behavior, regardless of the social context (as in: "being told to do so", not anger or self-defense). Then we can preemptively punish them for being born evil.

That's just crazy and at least somewhat reminiscent of Nazi Germany's Aktion T4 program.


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


glebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Age: 61
Posts: 1,665
Location: Mountains of Southern California

20 Oct 2015, 1:25 pm

Raptor wrote:
The reason we have laws is because not everyone will do right on their own and law standardizes what is right (although the law isn't always right). It's always been that way and always will be.

Quote:
In-fact I believe that with brain scans, at least in the coming years of the technological development, we can actually pinpoint individuals and test if they would refrain from harmful behavior, regardless of the social context (as in: "being told to do so", not anger or self-defense). Then we can preemptively punish them for being born evil.

That's just crazy and at least somewhat reminiscent of Nazi Germany's Aktion T4 program.

A very scary concept indeed. I think we are better off with moral persuasion and the force of law rather than scanning people's brains and then punishing them for something they might do.


_________________
When everyone is losing their heads except you, maybe you don't understand the situation.


Earthling
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 3,450

20 Oct 2015, 1:49 pm

Such black and white thinking... humans are not all-good or all-bad.
Either way, rather than killing these people they should be able to live their life with dignity, even if they are "evil".



Barchan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Sep 2014
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 846

21 Oct 2015, 11:30 am

Quote:
I believe that B is evil, regardless of the fact he hasn't done any harm to others, but based off the fact that he would do so, if the group told him so.


That's not evil. Just natural.

It takes all kinds of people for society to function. There are those who are fit to lead (Person A); and those who are fit to follow (Person B).