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androbot01
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09 Jan 2015, 12:13 pm

North Korea's (alleged) cyber attack on Sony and the massacre at Charlie Hebdo although unrelated politically share the same target - free expression of thought.

I think this is a trend that will continue. And I am fearful that expression will be curbed out of fear.



kraftiekortie
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09 Jan 2015, 5:36 pm

The people at Charlie Hebdo plan on creating 1 million copies. Their usual circulation is 40,000.

I believe they are fighting for freedom of expression tooth, nail, and claw.



tomato
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09 Jan 2015, 6:38 pm

There never was any freedom of expression except when you are alone in the wilderness. Freedom of expression is a myth and an illusion. The only reason you would feel free to express yourself is that that which you express is unimportant. Hence the expression:

He who knows doesn't speak and he who speaks doesn't know.

But then again, I just spoke that, which means I don't know.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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09 Jan 2015, 6:43 pm

My earnest question to you is, isn't it already like that? Name me one person who says what they want whenever they want. No one I know ever does that. We all curb our expression to some extent because we have to live in a society and there are rules we all must follow and some of those rules simply say we cannot say whatever we want whenever we want to. If you can think of one person who can be successful not ever having to mind what they say please tell me how they do it because I cannot think of any example.



androbot01
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09 Jan 2015, 7:00 pm

"You can't yell fire in a crowded theatre." And we all wear masks everyday. I think its good that we are able to discuss politics and religion openly though.



kraftiekortie
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09 Jan 2015, 7:01 pm

You're darn tootin'!



tomato
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09 Jan 2015, 7:15 pm

androbot01 wrote:
I think its good that we are able to discuss politics and religion openly though.

There is no freedom in such discussion either. If you're feeling free it's because what you're saying is unimportant and nonthreatening to the status quo, otherwise you'd soon be silenced.



androbot01
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09 Jan 2015, 7:30 pm

tomato wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I think its good that we are able to discuss politics and religion openly though.

There is no freedom in such discussion either. If you're feeling free it's because what you're saying is unimportant and nonthreatening to the status quo, otherwise you'd soon be silenced.


What would be examples of threatening and important things? The worst I can come up with is that I think the current education system should be disbanded in favour of homeschooling with online resources. The schools have become too big and powerful. And dangerous to both mind and body.



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09 Jan 2015, 7:44 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If you can think of one person who can be successful not ever having to mind what they say please tell me how they do it because I cannot think of any example.


Rap artists, songwriters, bloggers, vloggers, self-publishers, indie publishers, and artists of mediums across the spectrum express pretty much whatever they want nowadays.



Fnord
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09 Jan 2015, 7:55 pm

tomato wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I think its good that we are able to discuss politics and religion openly though.
There is no freedom in such discussion either. If you're feeling free it's because what you're saying is unimportant and nonthreatening to the status quo, otherwise you'd soon be silenced.
You seem to have no idea what you are talking about.

First, here in the states, there are no enforceable "Blasphemy Laws"; nor are there any prohibited religions, either. Thus, people are free to practice the religion of their choice, practice no religion, and even criticize any religion or religious leader without fear of arrest. They are also free to express their religious beliefs through speech or print.

Second, the so-called "Status Quo" is in a state of flux, as traditional mainstream religions are experiencing a decline in membership as people become more secular in their beliefs. Many churches are so desperate for membership (and income) that they've relaxed their standards and liberalized their doctrines. The rules are changing in such a way that even Atheists may freely express themselves in some churches and still be treated well.

Third, just because someone else's opinions are "unimportant and nonthreatening" to you, does not make them so to the rest of the world. If you have something important and truthful to say, then say it. If someone else feels threatened by it, then that is their problem. The only limitation being that intentionally threatening someone may be against secular law, especially if the threat is made against a law-enforcement officer to a political leader.

That's how it is. I suggest you learn to deal with it.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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09 Jan 2015, 8:11 pm

Syd wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
If you can think of one person who can be successful not ever having to mind what they say please tell me how they do it because I cannot think of any example.


Rap artists, songwriters, bloggers, vloggers, self-publishers, indie publishers, and artists of mediums across the spectrum express pretty much whatever they want nowadays.



I am talking about in everyday life when you are out in the real world, not thinking up stuff for your blog, vlog or thinking up your own lyrics and even when you do come up with this stuff, you run the risk of people not responding to what you say so you tweak it to the point they start responding. So you see, expression is tailored by those expressing in order to impact an audience, and it's the same in real life even though the audience is much more compact, usually. The first expression a person makes might be their most raw but if they do not get the response they want from others, they will keep changing and tweaking until they figure out which expression gets them what they want. Why is it people do not like admitting, yes, we are symbiotic, dependent on each other for response and this will decide how we express ourselves, more often than not. It's not a true freedom. If someone can be truly free and go on forever doing the same thing even after they alienated everyone under the sun, they have my applause. They most likely won't be popular with anyone else but a handful of of devout souls.

In the real world it's even tougher because people seem more social than ever these days and are less willing to forgive people who express themselves in ways they find uncomfortable. They will pretty much focus on whomever they feel is nice or charming.



tomato
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09 Jan 2015, 8:26 pm

Chances are a lot of those people that are silenced just disappear and you don't even notice. "suicide" "heart attack" etc.



androbot01
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09 Jan 2015, 8:27 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The first expression a person makes might be their most raw but if they do not get the response they want from others, they will keep changing and tweaking until they figure out which expression gets them what they want.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing." :wink:

People aren't always acting.



androbot01
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09 Jan 2015, 8:38 pm

George Carlin was not murdered, tomato. His heart silenced him.

If secret forces were dispatching trouble makers, they surely would have gotten rid of John Stewart.



Fnord
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09 Jan 2015, 8:44 pm

androbot01 wrote:
George Carlin was not murdered, tomato. His heart silenced him. If secret forces were dispatching trouble makers, they surely would have gotten rid of John Stewart.
If these "Secret Forces" want to eliminate troublemakers, they should first go after those who see hidden conspiracies everywhere they look.


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10 Jan 2015, 1:13 am

androbot01 wrote:
tomato wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
I think its good that we are able to discuss politics and religion openly though.

There is no freedom in such discussion either. If you're feeling free it's because what you're saying is unimportant and nonthreatening to the status quo, otherwise you'd soon be silenced.


What would be examples of threatening and important things?


Salman Rushdie and the Satanic Verses?
What the book is really all about?
Quote:
Muhammd Mashuq ibn Ally wrote that "The Satanic Verses is about identity, alienation, rootlessness, brutality, compromise, and conformity. These concepts confront all migrants, disillusioned with both cultures: the one they are in and the one they join. Yet knowing they cannot live a life of anonymity, they mediate between them both. The Satanic Verses is a reflection of the author’s dilemmas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satani ... d_analysis

Wether the radicalization of today has it's roots in the late 80's?

How freedom of speech is a weapon
Or how the pen is a sword you go to war with and how there's always collateral damages in wars?

Or shall we talk of the difference between multicultural and bicultural? http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biculturalism/page-3

I don't think much of multicultural. Being bicultural myself that is :|