Is there any proof God exists?

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I should have been more clear. I think "events" would be a better way to describe the musical tones I picked, and within the aesthetic I was trying to create, I was limited strictly to musically useful sounds within a tonal music context. In this case, I chose to limit it to major and minor triads, though I took some liberties by adding major 7ths and 9ths to major chords, minor 7ths to minor triads, predominantly kept them in root position though I did make exceptions if keeping the root in the bass meant creating a tritone, i.e. going from B to Fm. The bass notes might be B to Ab or B to C. I also held common tones as long as possible and practical. To create a musical work, limitations within a context of what a musical work is must unfortunately be imposed. Oh, and if you're familiar with my music at all, you'll know I'm not fond of limitations, especially on what "musical" means. For me, just about any organic collection of sounds will do just fine.

By extinction, I mean the absence of events you started with. In Western music, you're typically only dealing with 12 pitch classes. So if you pick 100 pitch classes at random, theoretically every tone has just as much a chance of being picked. In reality, some notes might be picked more than others. If this is taken as a probability of what notes will sound in the next generation, some notes might be picked MORE than what they'd likely have been previously, some notes that were picked more in previous generations might be picked less in subsequent generations. But every time a note is picked LESS, the odds that note will be picked next time will decrease. Now, just because it's less likely that a note will be picked doesn't mean it WON'T be picked. If it gets picked more than it likely would have based on the previous generation, it gets a new lease on life. But there's a greater probability that once a note's chances of getting picked decrease, the less likely the note WILL be picked, and eventually if this trend continues the note won't be picked at all. Once a generation goes by that the note doesn't get picked, it's chances of being picked in the future falls to zero. It is therefore extinct. Future random selections of note events, remember, are based on previous selections. So if something didn't happen the last time, it won't happen the next time.

And you're right…it's purposefully limited to what I have to work with. Because I'm only dealing with 12 pitch classes, you have a greater percentage of extinctions in a much shorter amount of time. It's only a microcosm of how something might occur in the biological world.

This is a function of random selection if evolution were to follow a similar pattern. In evolution, though, we already know that there are too many factors involved for randomness. My proposed structure for making aleatoric music doesn't account for events affecting each other or interacting in any sort of way. I'm not going for anything that deep or complex. It's just that even if random selection were accurate a la the straw atheist, the world as we know it is an inevitability.

Don't forget about their living descendants, the birds. The dinosaurs never even went extinct, since we can just look out of our window and see their offspring.

Birds are designoid. That is, they have the appearance of being designed, although they are not. Mutation generates variations on a form. Natural selection picks which one is less suited to it's environment based on reproductive success. That successful form is then the basis for new variations. We call it E-V-O-L-U-T-I-O-N. Can you say that? Evolution? I know you can.

Of course, Snake Oil cannot work on anyone who does not swallow it.

You few who seem to have some functional integrity and reason will not assume that incessant blabber is some indicator of science.

Thus far, Materialism is presented as a purely ideological fad on the same level as Voodoo. "It is so because I say it is so".

The thing that I really hate about Materialism is that they assume we're all fools.

Everyone, everywhere has always known that water runs downhill.... the Entropy stuff... but the "clever-dicks" will insist that if you wait long enough water runs uphill.

It seems also that there's usually a whole lot of recessive change built up before something radically different starts happening. That also tends to give some suggestion as to how a new population of a species can come in large enough to procreate itself without massive inbreeding rather than simply a one-off mutant spreading its fortuitous changes about.

Circumstances also contribute. It's not just that a fortuitous change crops up in an existing environment, but that it also happens when an environment changes. For example, a certain bird (the name of which escapes me) was originally found on the South America mainland without webbed feet. The very same breed made its way to the Galapagos Islands and in a relatively short period, developed webbed feet, better suited to the new environment.

Right, I think mostly a coagulation of the right recessive genes with that are what would do the most. I have a friend I talk to on here whose pretty well versed I think she was suggesting that random mutation happens but it's the more rare occurrence.

One of the more important thing probably is considering the gene sequence more like a keyboard in that can change in certain ways based on stresses. Good example is when a person, through poor diet over enough time, becomes a diabetic and the high glucose/fructose environment puts enough stress on the surrounding chemical structures/balances to cause that gene to give way. In that sense it's more like solid state memory with a certain amount of deliberate rewrite available rather than being a read-only form.

A lot of this really lends me the impression that a lot of the bashing of consciousness and the extent of its role in things is more political than scientific.

I often wonder about the process of what works as a stress on a gene sequence to "cause" a change. If I were better educated on the topic, things would be much clearer. What I have learned as a layman makes sense, but let's face it, I didn't spend 7 years at university doing it.

Oh yeah, old news. I'd PREFER to set up an interactive algorithm and just let the computer generate a MIDI data stream. It would save a lot of time. I just lack the knowledge and means to do that, but CSound, Supercollider, and Max/MSP all basically can accomplish what I have in mind. What I'd rather do is find a programmer to write something in, say, Java that would automate the process. What I'm looking to do is rather simple, no sound-mass generation or anything like that. In fact, the video you posted isn't far off the mark from what I'm interested in.

Some things I CAN do. Reason has a pattern sequencer and a customizable arpeggiator. My Korg X50 also has a user-programmable arpeggiator. It's possible in Logic to create sequences of controller messages that you could send to a midi synth and control filter cutoff frequencies, FM modulation indices, etc. Save project files with any number of these things set up as loops and, yeah, the computer can pretty much do the rest of the work for you in a quasi-intelligent sort of way.

I'm not ready for a "true" intelligent system, but the idea is fascinating. There's been people working on this since the 1960's.

"The Origin of Species on the Basis of Natural Selection!"

Actually according to Tom Insel, the director of the NATIONAL Institutes of Mental Health, NIMH, science is showing now that environmental stresses that are social, like Bullying in middle school can lead to the expression of genes that area associated with schizophrenia, SEVERAL YEARS 'DOWN THE ROAD'.

And perhaps the same is true with Autism.

Put a person in a favorable niche and theY do well.

Do different and they do not do so well..

But seriously it's pretty sad when one cannot look around and determine this causal effect and affect in the environment without science to hold their hands but as the case of the human condition more and more people get stuck in their niche and rarely crawl out.

Freedom of INFORMATION IN THE IT AGE, AT LEAST provides the avenues for folks who do want to BREAK OUT OF MOLDS AND PURSUE MORE OF THEIR HUMAN POTENTIAL, 'CAUSE EPIGENETICS AND NEUROPLASTICITY IS THE STUFF OF HUMAN HELL AND HUMAN HEAVEN.

IT'S just a matter of finding the proper recipe of challenge, adapting and becoming a 'superman or superwoman'..relatively speaking, per the other folks who continue to stay in molds of stagnation that they may not
even have a reference point for, for what HUMAN POTENTIAL REALLY CAN BE, unleashed AND RELEASED per the 'Quantum' mind of humans.. AKA HUMAN DNA MORE FULLY EXPRESSED..

In other words that which you call "nature" is a factory.

So basically a "lights out factory" popped into existence out of nothing and for no reason.

Fascinating.

way to minimize billions of years of change.. woohoo!

I suppose that we should all be flattened by any gratuitous assertion uttered in the name of Materialism. It might very well work on your average socially/politically compliant wanna-seem-to-be smarter than the average bear, but I seem to have missed out on the "swallow bs" gene.

Anyhow, here's more mathematical evidence that water doesn't flow uphill however long you wait.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... life13.htm

Yes. I'm curious as to why you would be flogging this dead horse.

Any intelligent removal of useless or "problematic" frequencies or timing immediately precludes any randomness.

I am somewhat astonished that there is anyone other than the ideologically committed nut cases that can still entertain the notion that order is a random extension of chaos.

The likes of John Cage and a whole generation of ideologically committed "randomists" have demonstrated that the more random a set of sounds the less musical it is. Complete randomness creates "white noise". Why do you persist with this nonsense?

Just because you know how something evolves (e.g. muscles) doesn't mean you have an excuse to disbelieve in God.

You grow muscles by putting them under stress.

Stress is the cause and stronger/bigger muscles is the effect.

But ultimately all "effects" can be traced back to a sentient being that was not caused into existence by anything. He just existed since forever.

Evolution only strengthens my faith.