Is there any proof God exists?

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Oldavid
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08 Mar 2015, 6:10 am

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

I guess I'm rather backward because I think comic strips are for entertainment and don't contain much in the way of science or logic.

Anyhow, who am I to even care what you imagine reason to be.

....Gods not real and evolution is teeheehee!

Ho ho ho! You hope!

DentArthurDent
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08 Mar 2015, 7:52 am

sophisticated wrote:

But ultimately all "effects" can be traced back to a sentient being that was not caused into existence by anything. He just existed since forever.

How can you possibly say this.

The worlds of particle physics, quantum mechanics as well as discoveries of how the atoms etc behave at near absolute zero are blowing apart any ideas based on "common sense".

Given the latest advances in these areas all we can say about existence prior to the first nanoseconds after the big bang is a whopping great "WE DONT KNOW".

For example an external sentient being is far more improbable that suggesting that an almost infinitely dense piece of matter had always existed. After all if God can have always existed without cause, why not matter?

Lets reasonably assume god is at least partly made of energy, then if energy is allowed by your rules to have always existed then we have absolutely no need for sentience. Energy and matter are interchangeable, and once we get matter we get the universe/universes and once we get a universe we pretty much know the pathways to life.

Plenty of assumptions I know, but Occam's razor would come down heavily against the need for a god, especially a theistic one. Rather ironic really as he used his way of thinking to prove god in the same way you do, with the big exception that he, unlike you, did not have the benefit of all the knowledge we now have.

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08 Mar 2015, 11:02 am

DentArthurDent wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

But ultimately all "effects" can be traced back to a sentient being that was not caused into existence by anything. He just existed since forever.

Because a dense piece of matter will always be a dense piece of matter, it will never do anything other than just exist. How does that super dense piece of matter go about creating something as complex as life ? It's just absurd.

I don't buy into the whole randomness by chance crap because that's exactly what it is - CRAP.

The_Walrus
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08 Mar 2015, 11:42 am

Firstly, how is this thread still going?

sophisticated wrote:

Secondly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_truly_large_numbers

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08 Mar 2015, 7:18 pm

sophisticated wrote:

A dense piece of matter is not just a lump. You live on one. The gravitational attraction that formed the Earth, caused it to lump together and over eons form a large, round, "dense piece of matter." And it does far more than just exist. The density causes the centre of the planet to become molten and reactive. The resulting geologic activity "creates" a lot of things on this planet.

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08 Mar 2015, 8:17 pm

sophisticated wrote:

A dense piece of Uranium is changing into other elements and giving off heat and light. It is not just sitting there and existing.

Meanwhile the light elements in stars, hydrogen is being fused into heavier elements including carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and other elements. These elements are the stuff of life. So non-living hydrogen is being turned into life stuff by the force of gravity in the belly of a star.

You and I are made of star-dust.

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08 Mar 2015, 8:30 pm

Narrator wrote:

Said with all the imperious authority of one who was there and saw it all happen.

The mere fact that things change (always and only in the direction of entropy) only tells us that what was before the (natural) change was of a higher level of order and potential than after the change. For example; volcanoes don't suck up energy (like noise and heat and light) and matter (like various gasses, rock and dust):- they dissipate all that stuff which is never again to (naturally) be what it was.

A supposed infinitely dense piece of stuff (as in a "Black Hole", a "Singularity", or some such) is an entirely imaginary impossibility designed to be a fanciful substitute for intellect and power and will to deceive the foolish. I would say that, thanks to the mind-rotting power of the mass media it's a deception pretty successful.

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08 Mar 2015, 9:57 pm

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

I refuse to accept that matter is eternal.

If matter is eternal we would not be here. It is as simple as abc and 123.

AspieOtaku
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08 Mar 2015, 10:05 pm

Oldavid wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

I guess I'm rather backward because I think comic strips are for entertainment and don't contain much in the way of science or logic.

Anyhow, who am I to even care what you imagine reason to be.

....Gods not real and evolution is teeheehee!

Ho ho ho! You hope!

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appletheclown
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08 Mar 2015, 10:23 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

I guess I'm rather backward because I think comic strips are for entertainment and don't contain much in the way of science or logic.

Anyhow, who am I to even care what you imagine reason to be.

....Gods not real and evolution is teeheehee!

Ho ho ho! You hope!

Provide empirical proof of ANY matter, energy, or void of space coming from nothing, and I will provide empirical proof of God and that Clannad: After Story is a s**t anime.

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08 Mar 2015, 10:40 pm

appletheclown wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

I guess I'm rather backward because I think comic strips are for entertainment and don't contain much in the way of science or logic.

Anyhow, who am I to even care what you imagine reason to be.

....Gods not real and evolution is teeheehee!

Ho ho ho! You hope!

Provide empirical proof of ANY matter, energy, or void of space coming from nothing, and I will provide empirical proof of God and that Clannad: After Story is a s**t anime.

There is no proof.

Nothing produces Nothing.

Something produces something.

appletheclown
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08 Mar 2015, 10:43 pm

sophisticated wrote:

appletheclown wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

AspieOtaku wrote:

Oldavid wrote:

I guess I'm rather backward because I think comic strips are for entertainment and don't contain much in the way of science or logic.

Anyhow, who am I to even care what you imagine reason to be.

....Gods not real and evolution is teeheehee!

Ho ho ho! You hope!

Provide empirical proof of ANY matter, energy, or void of space coming from nothing, and I will provide empirical proof of God and that Clannad: After Story is a s**t anime.

There is no proof.

Nothing produces Nothing.

Something produces something.

Yay! A sensible person! :mrgreen:

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09 Mar 2015, 12:45 am

sophisticated wrote:

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

I refuse to accept that matter is eternal.

If matter is eternal we would not be here. It is as simple as abc and 123.

That's one of the more telling things you've said.
For many years, I too "refused to accept" what science was saying.
But refusal to accept doesn't make something is untrue.

As for not being here, almost everything in nature go through cycles. And to some degree, the larger the item, the longer the cycle. Global warming to ice-age is one of the longest cycles we know, but is comparatively short when you look at cycles of stars, galaxies and perhaps even the universe. Our being here, would be just a part of a cycle lasting billions or even trillions of years. We are a fly-spec in the lifetime of this solar system, let alone this universe.

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09 Mar 2015, 1:16 am

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

I refuse to accept that matter is eternal.

If matter is eternal we would not be here. It is as simple as abc and 123.

I accept every scientific fact. I'm very to different to the person you "was".

A cycle is an event. The first cycle or event was dependant on a sentient, anti-matter, eternal , super intelligent being.

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09 Mar 2015, 1:33 am

sophisticated wrote:

A cycle is an event. The first cycle or event was dependant on a sentient, anti-matter, eternal , super intelligent being.

Says who? A circle has neither beginning nor end.

I do understand your logic, and how innate it seems, but some things seem to defy logic, until you come to a more scientific understanding of what is at work. Look at this video, for example. What you see there seems impossible. Science can explain it, but our innate response is to reject it:

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09 Mar 2015, 1:49 am

Religious stories are as far fetched as Mama Luigi's!

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