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Joined: 26 Jul 2014
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

15 Feb 2015, 5:07 pm

hahaha

Sorry I dropped that bombshell before I went to bed. But you see how it changed the whole nature of what should be simple "logical" arithmetic. And when people say, "You're just arguing semantics," it's often said as if to make semantics seem like a waste of time. But sometimes semantics highlights important differences in understanding, which can help us to talk with, instead of at people.

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
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15 Feb 2015, 7:38 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

Narrator wrote:

When I was an engineering student, back in 1980, I had a fun maths class one time.

It involved the following fractions.
You see, 1/0 is not mathematically possible.
But, if you multiply 1/0 x 0/1 then it simplifies to become 0/0 which = 1.
So, from the impossible, you get 1. Go figure, huh.

You cannot divide or multiple nothingness (zero).

But your answer to 1/0 x 0/1 = 1 is correct.

1/0=1

0/1=0

Therefore 1/0x0/1=1

However your statement; "From the impossible, you get 1" is 100% false.

1/0 is not possible in the real world but 1/0 still equals 1.

This is because you cannot divide 1 by nothing. So it remains 1.

Huh?

Well- first multiply the numerators: one times zero equals zero.
Then multiply the denominators: zero times one equals zero.

So you get zero over zero.

And zero over zero is indeterminant. You could multiply zero by 365 and still get zero. So if you divide zero into zero you get any number you choose.

1 x 0 = 1. and 1 / 0 = 1

Divide 1 cookie by 0.

How many cookies do you have now ? 1.

One times zero equals ONE????? Since when?
One times zero equals zero.

How does one over zero equal one?

if you divide one cookie by two you get two half cookies. By ten: ten ten percent sized cookies.

You cant divide something by zero at all.

But even if we go by your "logic": that failing to divide a cookie at all (ie dividing no times) results in one whole cookie. It would still only equal one. So zero times one equals zero. So the result of the equation is zero. Not one!

That's right. That's why when you take an object and divide it by zero, you still have one whole object.

1/0=1 <<< Is just another way of saying that the division is impossible.

Narrator
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15 Feb 2015, 8:09 pm

sophisticated wrote:

1/0=1 <<< Is just another way of saying that the division is impossible.

When I pick up my old led calculator, and plug in 1 / 0 =
I get a bunch of not numbers...
It comes up with this: E.EEEEEEE
Fascinating!
So I progress. I open up MS Excel, pick a random cell, and type in, =1/0
You have to do that in Excel. It's like it has its own numerical grammar.
It comes up with this: #DIV/0!
Even more fascinating!
While the hash symbol is being ubiquitous, the exclamation point is trying to tell me something.
In 1734, one mathematical fellow called it "ghosts of departed quantities."
Zero seems to be more than just nothing, if it has such an effect on things.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

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15 Feb 2015, 8:34 pm

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

1/0=1 <<< Is just another way of saying that the division is impossible.

If zero was more than nothing, then it wouldn't be called zero.

naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2015, 8:41 pm

okay.

1/2 is one half .

But 1/ 1/2 equals two.

1 over 1/1000,000 is one million.

Dividing one by positive numbers less than one results in multiplying the number one.

So logically dividing one by the tiniest number of all-zero-would yield: infinity.

So 1/0 = infinity.

Then 0/1 obviously equals zero.

So 1/0 X 0/1 would be "infinity times zero".

Which would be...zero.

Not one!

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
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15 Feb 2015, 9:03 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

1/2 is one half .

But 1/ 1/2 equals two.

1 over 1/1000,000 is one million.

Dividing one by positive numbers less than one results in multiplying the number one.

So logically dividing one by the tiniest number of all-zero-would yield: infinity.

So 1/0 = infinity.

Then 0/1 obviously equals zero.

So 1/0 X 0/1 would be "infinity times zero".

Which would be...zero.

Not one!

The fallacy is in line 5.

1 / 0 = Infinity only if 1 = infinity.

If 1= cookie then 1/0 = cookie.

naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2015, 9:09 pm

I was being slightly tongue in cheek.

You cant divide zero into anything. The answer is not "infinity". The answer would be "indeterminant".

So instead of 'infinity times zero" the final step would "indeterminant times zero".

Which would still be zero!

So the conclusion would be the same.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

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15 Feb 2015, 9:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Indeterminant times zero would be expressed as 0/0 not 1/0.

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15 Feb 2015, 9:16 pm

See how much fun words can be?
If it was just people posting numbers, we wouldn't be even half so entertained.

naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2015, 9:19 pm

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

Indeterminant times zero would be expressed as 0/0 not 1/0.

So?

1/0 = 0/0 then.

Doesnt change my point.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

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15 Feb 2015, 9:24 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

Indeterminant times zero would be expressed as 0/0 not 1/0.

So?

1/0 = 0/0 then.

Doesnt change my point.

No it doesn't.

naturalplastic
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15 Feb 2015, 9:28 pm

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

Indeterminant times zero would be expressed as 0/0 not 1/0.

So?

1/0 = 0/0 then.

Doesnt change my point.

No it doesn't.

So "zero into one" is not indeterminate?

It isnt "one". That fer sure.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
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15 Feb 2015, 9:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

naturalplastic wrote:

Indeterminant times zero would be expressed as 0/0 not 1/0.

So?

1/0 = 0/0 then.

Doesnt change my point.

No it doesn't.

So "zero into one" is not indeterminate?

It isnt "one". That fer sure.

0/1=0

1/0=1

Narrator
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15 Feb 2015, 10:00 pm

sophisticated wrote:

0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
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15 Feb 2015, 10:07 pm

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

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15 Feb 2015, 10:34 pm

sophisticated wrote:

Narrator wrote:

sophisticated wrote:

0/1=0

1/0=1

This is false.

1x0=1

You can look at it both ways.
0x1: Sitting in front of you is one emptiness, one nul space, one nothingness. You are multiplying emptiness by one. Even if you multiply nothingness by five, you still have nothing.

Flip it around.
1x0: If you have zero ones, you have zero.
Or look at it another way. I'm going to put 1 cookie in front of you zero times. If I put a cookie in front of you two times, then you would have two cookies. But if I'm going to put one cookie in front of you zero times, then I'm not actually putting any cookies in front of you. So you have zero cookies.

Lastly, do it on a calculator. It comes up with zero.

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