# First Cause

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Narrator
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Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

15 Feb 2015, 10:34 pm

sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

You can look at it both ways.
0x1: Sitting in front of you is one emptiness, one nul space, one nothingness. You are multiplying emptiness by one. Even if you multiply nothingness by five, you still have nothing.

Flip it around.
1x0: If you have zero ones, you have zero.
Or look at it another way. I'm going to put 1 cookie in front of you zero times. If I put a cookie in front of you two times, then you would have two cookies. But if I'm going to put one cookie in front of you zero times, then I'm not actually putting any cookies in front of you. So you have zero cookies.

Lastly, do it on a calculator. It comes up with zero.

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 306

15 Feb 2015, 10:49 pm

Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

You can look at it both ways.
0x1: Sitting in front of you is one emptiness, one nul space, one nothingness. You are multiplying emptiness by one. Even if you multiply nothingness by five, you still have nothing.

Flip it around.
1x0: If you have zero ones, you have zero.
Or look at it another way. I'm going to put 1 cookie in front of you zero times. If I put a cookie in front of you two times, then you would have two cookies. But if I'm going to put one cookie in front of you zero times, then I'm not actually putting any cookies in front of you. So you have zero cookies.

Lastly, do it on a calculator. It comes up with zero.

This is where the fallacy is.

Because we start the expression with 1 cookie .. it means we have 1 cookie .. THEN we multiply the cookie 0 times . How many cookies do we have now ? 1 cookie.

naturalplastic
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,929
Location: temperate zone

15 Feb 2015, 11:07 pm

sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

Are you TRYING to be funny?
Or do you really believe that?

One times zero equals one?

ROTFLMFAO!

So-are you saying that 365 times zero equals 365?

Okay...you have nothing. Then you multiply that nothing by one. So you have one of nothing. Which is nothing.
Zero.

AND you could multiply your nothing by ANY postive number- three hundred and sixty five- so you have 365 parcels of nothing-which would still be..nuthin!

365X0 = 1x0 = 0.

By your logic 365 times zero would be 365!

Here is where someone should post the video from that old broadway show (Porgy and Bess? Oklahoma?) in which the guy sings "I got plenty of nothin' , and nuthin's plenty for me" to illustrate the concept for you that "plenty of nuthin'" is still nothing!

Lol!

P.S.

Youre saying that if you multiply a cookie zero times - you get one cookie.

Zero is NOT a synonym for the number one.

Multiplying a cookie by zero means that you make the cookie disappear. So you have zero cookies.
If you multiply it by one- you have one cookie.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 306

15 Feb 2015, 11:13 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

Are you TRYING to be funny?
Or do you really believe that?

One times zero equals one?

ROTFLMFAO!

So-are you saying that 365 times zero equals 365?

Okay...you have nothing. Then you multiply that nothing by one. So you have one of nothing. Which is nothing.
Zero.

AND you could multiply your nothing by ANY postive number- three hundred and sixty five- so you have 365 parcels of nothing-which would still be..nuthin!

365X0 = 1x0 = 0.

By your logic 365 times zero would be 365!

Here is where someone should post the video from that old broadway show (Porgy and Bess? Oklahoma?) in which the guy sings "I got plenty of nothin' , and nuthin's plenty for me" to illustrate the concept for you that "plenty of nuthin'" is still nothing!

Lol!

P.S.

Youre saying that if you multiply a cookie zero times - you get one cookie.

Zero is NOT a synonym for the number one.

Multiplying a cookie by zero means that you make the cookie disappear. So you have zero cookies.
If you multiply it by one- you have one cookie.

Why don't you show me how to make a cookie disappear .

naturalplastic
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,929
Location: temperate zone

15 Feb 2015, 11:19 pm

sophisticated wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

Are you TRYING to be funny?
Or do you really believe that?

One times zero equals one?

ROTFLMFAO!

So-are you saying that 365 times zero equals 365?

Okay...you have nothing. Then you multiply that nothing by one. So you have one of nothing. Which is nothing.
Zero.

AND you could multiply your nothing by ANY postive number- three hundred and sixty five- so you have 365 parcels of nothing-which would still be..nuthin!

365X0 = 1x0 = 0.

By your logic 365 times zero would be 365!

Here is where someone should post the video from that old broadway show (Porgy and Bess? Oklahoma?) in which the guy sings "I got plenty of nothin' , and nuthin's plenty for me" to illustrate the concept for you that "plenty of nuthin'" is still nothing!

Lol!

P.S.

Youre saying that if you multiply a cookie zero times - you get one cookie.

Zero is NOT a synonym for the number one.

Multiplying a cookie by zero means that you make the cookie disappear. So you have zero cookies.
If you multiply it by one- you have one cookie.

Why don't you show me how to make a cookie disappear .

I have made countless dozens of oreos disappear in my time. Pecan Sandies too. The trick is to stop yourself from making them disappear!

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 306

15 Feb 2015, 11:25 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
0/1=0

1/0=1

hmmmm...
multiply the two results
1 x 0 = 0 (one nothing is nothing)
yet any number divided by itself equals 1 e.g. 32.7/32.7 = 1
so...
1/0 x 0/1 simplifies to 0/0 which therefor = 1
even though multiplying the two results = 0

This is false.

1x0=1

Are you TRYING to be funny?
Or do you really believe that?

One times zero equals one?

ROTFLMFAO!

So-are you saying that 365 times zero equals 365?

Okay...you have nothing. Then you multiply that nothing by one. So you have one of nothing. Which is nothing.
Zero.

AND you could multiply your nothing by ANY postive number- three hundred and sixty five- so you have 365 parcels of nothing-which would still be..nuthin!

365X0 = 1x0 = 0.

By your logic 365 times zero would be 365!

Here is where someone should post the video from that old broadway show (Porgy and Bess? Oklahoma?) in which the guy sings "I got plenty of nothin' , and nuthin's plenty for me" to illustrate the concept for you that "plenty of nuthin'" is still nothing!

Lol!

P.S.

Youre saying that if you multiply a cookie zero times - you get one cookie.

Zero is NOT a synonym for the number one.

Multiplying a cookie by zero means that you make the cookie disappear. So you have zero cookies.
If you multiply it by one- you have one cookie.

Why don't you show me how to make a cookie disappear .

I have made countless dozens of oreos disappear in my time. Pecan Sandies too. Its often to keep from making them disappear!

This is moving an object and placing it elsewhere.

It has nothing to do with multiplication.

It is subtraction.

You have one oreo in your hand and then you put the oreo in your mouth. How many oreos do you have left in your hand ? None .

1-1=0 (edited) .

Narrator
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

16 Feb 2015, 12:56 am

No matter how you want that to be true, arithmetically it is false.
Plug 1 x 0 = into a calculator.
Enter =1*0 into an Excel spreadsheet
Ask anyone who has studied maths for their profession

You will not get anyone who has studied maths for their profession to agree that 1x0=1 ever
Not happening.
Your belief that it works is a perception/interpretation issue.

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

Narrator
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

16 Feb 2015, 1:17 am

Here.. from Wikipedia, on zero:
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero

Wikipedia wrote:
Multiplying a number by zero always gives zero. For example, multiplying forty-three by zero gives zero. In symbols:

43 × 0 = 0

Always!

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

Narrator
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

16 Feb 2015, 2:03 am

But back to the main topic...
As we've seen, you can be absolutely certain about something.
So certain that...

Janissy wrote:
...if new information arrives, you will be in a mental trap, unable to assimilate it into your life.

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 306

16 Feb 2015, 2:18 am

Narrator wrote:
No matter how you want that to be true, arithmetically it is false.
Plug 1 x 0 = into a calculator.
Enter =1*0 into an Excel spreadsheet
Ask anyone who has studied maths for their profession

You will not get anyone who has studied maths for their profession to agree that 1x0=1 ever
Not happening.
Your belief that it works is a perception/interpretation issue.

You are assuming that calculators are always right and that "experts" are always right.

Narrator
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

16 Feb 2015, 2:49 am

sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
No matter how you want that to be true, arithmetically it is false.
Plug 1 x 0 = into a calculator.
Enter =1*0 into an Excel spreadsheet
Ask anyone who has studied maths for their profession

You will not get anyone who has studied maths for their profession to agree that 1x0=1 ever
Not happening.
Your belief that it works is a perception/interpretation issue.

You are assuming that calculators are always right and that "experts" are always right.

lol
Bookmarked!! thanks for sharing that

Edit: As a teacher, I was always amused when students rearranged keys on keyboards and calculators. Not that it's the case in the above video, but it reminded me of it.

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 306

16 Feb 2015, 3:07 am

Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
No matter how you want that to be true, arithmetically it is false.
Plug 1 x 0 = into a calculator.
Enter =1*0 into an Excel spreadsheet
Ask anyone who has studied maths for their profession

You will not get anyone who has studied maths for their profession to agree that 1x0=1 ever
Not happening.
Your belief that it works is a perception/interpretation issue.

You are assuming that calculators are always right and that "experts" are always right.

lol
Bookmarked!! thanks for sharing that

Edit: As a teacher, I was always amused when students rearranged keys on keyboards and calculators. Not that it's the case in the above video, but it reminded me of it.

Anyway, it all comes down to definitions.

1x0=1 .... if the multiplicand is 1 and the multiplier is 0.

You obviously treat 0 as the multiplicand, hence why you get a different answer.

Narrator
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

16 Feb 2015, 3:15 am

sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
No matter how you want that to be true, arithmetically it is false.
Plug 1 x 0 = into a calculator.
Enter =1*0 into an Excel spreadsheet
Ask anyone who has studied maths for their profession

You will not get anyone who has studied maths for their profession to agree that 1x0=1 ever
Not happening.
Your belief that it works is a perception/interpretation issue.

You are assuming that calculators are always right and that "experts" are always right.

lol
Bookmarked!! thanks for sharing that

Edit: As a teacher, I was always amused when students rearranged keys on keyboards and calculators. Not that it's the case in the above video, but it reminded me of it.

Anyway, it all comes down to definitions.

1x0=1 .... if the multiplicand is 1 and the multiplier is 0.

You obviously treat 0 as the multiplicand, hence why you get a different answer.

Well, let me put it this way....
As someone who has taught maths for the last 6 years...
As someone who has owned 3 businesses...
And as someone who spent my early twenties as a mechanical engineer...
I have never ever seen 1 x 0 being equated with anything other than zero.
naturalplastic's astonishment suggests the same...

But! !
....even with all that evidence
....I am willing to be wrong about it..

_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.

sophisticated
Deinonychus

Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 306

16 Feb 2015, 3:55 am

Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
sophisticated wrote:
Narrator wrote:
No matter how you want that to be true, arithmetically it is false.
Plug 1 x 0 = into a calculator.
Enter =1*0 into an Excel spreadsheet
Ask anyone who has studied maths for their profession

You will not get anyone who has studied maths for their profession to agree that 1x0=1 ever
Not happening.
Your belief that it works is a perception/interpretation issue.

You are assuming that calculators are always right and that "experts" are always right.

lol
Bookmarked!! thanks for sharing that

Edit: As a teacher, I was always amused when students rearranged keys on keyboards and calculators. Not that it's the case in the above video, but it reminded me of it.

Anyway, it all comes down to definitions.

1x0=1 .... if the multiplicand is 1 and the multiplier is 0.

You obviously treat 0 as the multiplicand, hence why you get a different answer.

Well, let me put it this way....
As someone who has taught maths for the last 6 years...
As someone who has owned 3 businesses...
And as someone who spent my early twenties as a mechanical engineer...
I have never ever seen 1 x 0 being equated with anything other than zero.
naturalplastic's astonishment suggests the same...

But! !
....even with all that evidence
....I am willing to be wrong about it..

It all depends on how you look at numbers, expressions, definitions and context can be important too.

I interpret 1x0 as 1 to the power of zero. If you input 1 to the power of zero into your calculator it should give you 1 as the answer.

naturalplastic
Veteran

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 22,929
Location: temperate zone

16 Feb 2015, 4:27 am

If 1x0=1

Then does 42x0=42?

And does one million times zero then equal a millon?

If the first were true then the second two would also have to be true.

And if the second two were both true then how does "zero" differ from "one"?