Can Homosexuality and the Christian Faith Exist Together?

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appletheclown
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11 Apr 2015, 9:40 am

GnosticBishop wrote:

If not, then what are you saying causes one to be gay?

Regards
DL

Nobody knows. To bad no one is actually satisfied with that answer, despite it being true.


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appletheclown
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11 Apr 2015, 9:54 am

Ok, time for some clarification.

What do believe is that we shouldn't accept lgbt folks purely on the basis they are born that way.
If they aren't, people will try to change them, if they are some lgbt will think they are trapped.
What I am saying is, we need to accept them on the basis they are human, living and breathing.

As for the gay gene, I tend to lean on the it is a myth side because I believe to not know and to still accept
lgbt folks as equals is more compassionate than accepting them purely because they have no choice in the matter of who they want to have sex with.

To know would mean many people may say they accept lgbt folks as equals, but only because they can't help it,
and that isn't genuine.

I am by no means a homophobe, nor do I think of lgbt folks as lesser, I would just rather their own choices define them, not the chemicals in their body.


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aghogday
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11 Apr 2015, 10:03 am

appletheclown wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:

If not, then what are you saying causes one to be gay?

Regards
DL

Nobody knows. To bad no one is actually satisfied with that answer, despite it being true.


Jesus H. Christ, anyone who knows anything about human behavior understands that environment
AND GENETICS PLAYS A ROLE IN ALL HUMAN BEHAVIOR, FROM FRIGGING Autism to Homosexuality;
and science suggests that androgny is even associated with higher functioning Autism.

Obviously, androgyny is associated with homosexuality, unless one is 'mind blind' to reality.

So even by this simple human logic your assertion here again that there is no gay genetics makes
as much sense as the statement by frigging Michael Savage that autistic kids are all spoiled brats who
have been spared the 'rod' by mommy and daddy to pull their frigging boot-straps up.

Science shows a genetic association with both Homosexuality and Autism.

Science also shows an environmental association with both Homosexuality and Autism.

There is rarely to never one single determing gene for any condition of the human being, either
in flesh AND or in behavior.

And I have already evidenced the genetic association for Homosexuality in this thread, and if you
are suggeting there is no genetic association at this point, you are DEAD WRONG, SAME AS YOU
WOULD BE IF YOU SUGGESTED AUTISM OR FRIGGING SCHIZOPHRENIA IS ONLY AN ENVIRONMENTAL
CONDITION.

AND IF YOU ARE ONLY SUGGESTING THERE IS NOT ONE SPECIFIC GENE THAT DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT
SOMEONE IS GOING TO BE GAY;

THE SAME APPLIES TO TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER HUMAN
CONDITIONS WHERE BOTH GENETICS AND ENVIRONMENT PLAY A ROLE TOGETHER TO MAKE THE ENTIRE SOUP OF HUMAN BEING WHAT IT IS NOW. PERIOD. EXCLAMATION POINT! AND beyond in frigging so-called Junk DNA, GOD, or AND WHATEVER..:)


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11 Apr 2015, 10:22 am

appletheclown wrote:
pcuser wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
This is a debate about DNA, something that should be easily determinable by today's methods.
We found proof that DNA correlates to heart disease, cancer, and almost every time we looked for these correlations, we found them relatively quickly.

On the other hand, the gay gene has never been found, the fact that this research has taken so long just makes me wonder why are we looking for something that isn't there.

It is a myth, and no matter how many people believe it is there, it still doesn't change the fact there is no gay gene.

It is something we should be able to prove wrong easily, but no studies have actually been aimed at disproving the gay gene myth in the first place.

You're a moron. Just because you refuse to accept facts, you make insane comments to try and make gay people into a lesser class...

Stating the gay gene is in fact a myth does not mean I am saying they are lesser in worth than everybody else.
In fact, the only thing I am saying is just that, there is no gay gene.
What difference does it make that they are born that way or not?
They are productive members of society either way, so why would pointing this out be homophobic?
Your adding your own perception of me to the context of my post, which is absurd.
If a person wants to be homosexual, or becomes homosexual, or is somehow born that way is irrelevant
to their worth. They are no less, and no more than you or I.
But there still is no proof of this so called gay gene.


I understand your point of view. I'm saying you're wrong about the science. Genes cause being who you are, as in being gay. When you claim it's a choice, you give homophobes a reason why they are 'correct' about it being a choice and a sin. They then use that to discriminate. How can you not understand these simple statements of fact???



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11 Apr 2015, 11:27 am

pcuser wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
pcuser wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
This is a debate about DNA, something that should be easily determinable by today's methods.
We found proof that DNA correlates to heart disease, cancer, and almost every time we looked for these correlations, we found them relatively quickly.

On the other hand, the gay gene has never been found, the fact that this research has taken so long just makes me wonder why are we looking for something that isn't there.

It is a myth, and no matter how many people believe it is there, it still doesn't change the fact there is no gay gene.

It is something we should be able to prove wrong easily, but no studies have actually been aimed at disproving the gay gene myth in the first place.

You're a moron. Just because you refuse to accept facts, you make insane comments to try and make gay people into a lesser class...

Stating the gay gene is in fact a myth does not mean I am saying they are lesser in worth than everybody else.
In fact, the only thing I am saying is just that, there is no gay gene.
What difference does it make that they are born that way or not?
They are productive members of society either way, so why would pointing this out be homophobic?
Your adding your own perception of me to the context of my post, which is absurd.
If a person wants to be homosexual, or becomes homosexual, or is somehow born that way is irrelevant
to their worth. They are no less, and no more than you or I.
But there still is no proof of this so called gay gene.


I understand your point of view. I'm saying you're wrong about the science. Genes cause being who you are, as in being gay. When you claim it's a choice, you give homophobes a reason why they are 'correct' about it being a choice and a sin. They then use that to discriminate. How can you not understand these simple statements of fact???

I never said it was a choice, I said they are not born that way and that there is no gay gene.
Besides, if we are all slaves to DNA, then nothing we do is wrong, is it?


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GnosticBishop
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11 Apr 2015, 3:53 pm

aghogday wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
aghogday wrote:
[

Homosexuality is clearly both a genetically and environmentally produced diversity of human being, now solidly backed up by science.

quote]

I agree with the genetic base of homosexuality. What do you mean by environmentally produced? Do you mean nurturing or the environment effects DNA?

If you mean nurturing is backed up by science as producing gays, please give your source.

Regards
DL


Homosexuality is environmentally produced, in the sense that sexuality and gender is a spectrum and bisexuality exists in even greater numbers among humans than one-sex homosexual orientation, according to the largest study done on human sexuality, per the Kinsey Report on Human Sexuality.

In that sense one can go one or both ways, so in part that makes THAT part OF THE HOMOSEXUAL equation a potential choice..:)

Additionally, there are current primitive cultures that exercise free sex from puberty, where the culture is one of making babies for survival, FOR greater numbers of humans, FOR greater effectiveness of the sum of social cooperation in what is described as the 'work of the night', where there are no words for homosexuality or masturbation in the language.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/where-masturbation-and-homosexuality-do-not-exist/265849/

But of course, culture and religion AND even recorded written and spoken language CAN BE powerful repressors, oppressors, and subjugators through illusory fears, of GOD given human nature, per natural feelings and senses.

Perhaps, the most well known example of this is FGM, Female Genital Mutilation; still a widespread practice, in some African Muslim countries, where women see taking away a GOD given organ of the clitoris that is only evolved for pleasure, as a sign of self-esteem.

That's just insane, and proves that culture, religion, and even written language that supports these mutilation practices is the same, in this way.

The Bonobo, is the only primate, except for humans, that share in face to face kissing for pleasure, oral sex, and front to front sex.

The difference among Bonobos and other primates, other than humans, IS that the Bonobo obviously has a much greater propensity to share feelings of emotion and senses through the AFFECT and effect OF EMOTIONAL CONTAGION through MIRROR NEURONS.

NOW TO BE CLEAR, SCIENCE DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY PROVE THE DEAL ABOUT EMPATHY and mirror neurons among Bonobos; but I have enough frigging affective empathy by way of mirror neurons myself, to see it in the 'eyes', uniquely the similar to human primates, in Bonobo eyes and other facial expressions.

When a human can share in the pleasure of others, and truly cares about others this way through affective/emotional empathy, much of the pleasure is in giving others pleasure, in all ways that can happen. So many sexual practices, alternate to procreation become the norm, as pleasure given in all ways of human reciprocal communication, is a way for peace instead of strife.

Make Love NOT WAR, is a REAL DEAL FOR BOTH HUMAN PRIMATES AND BONOBOS, WHO ARE FREE TO DO THAT IN ALL WAYS THAT CAN BE DONE. SO YEAH, IN THIS WAY, PORNOGRAPHY IN most all the VICARIOUS AND VIRTUAL MIRROR NUERON WAYS IT IS PROVIDED CAN BE AT LEAST ONE POTENTIAL ANSWER , FOR PEACE FOR HUMAN BEINGS, unless violence is promoted in it, of course.

It is transparent as hell to me, when I 'hear' and 'see' a psychopathic leaning mind, in metaphor, in ways of not sharing this affective empathy by the 'cold hearts of eyes, ears and tongues', and other senses and feelings, and even the cold hearts of words that can reflect those 'cold eyes of human being death in life'.

This happens for many reasons, from childhood neglect in the first two years of life and or through social stress, and or generally speaking chronic stress before and or later in life.

But seriously for this deficit of humanity, this is where most hate is generated, in the eyes of 'cold dead hearts and souls, out of mind and body balanced in both emotions and senses; losing the ability to connect in the emotional and affective empathy of love in all associated senses and feelings.

And on top of that; a major 'cause of human misery and suffering is over-population, globally speaking.

MOST, Any turn away from intercourse, is a way out of human misery and suffering for the human race, overall, in the
long term..:)

3500 years ago things are not the same;

But times are A changing and not to evolve with GOD AS IS
IS
FGM-like Insanity..:)


No argument.


That article did not rule out the genetic connection but with such a strong social bonding aspect to sex, any gay tendency might be strongly suppressed.

Thanks for the info.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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11 Apr 2015, 4:09 pm

appletheclown wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:

If not, then what are you saying causes one to be gay?

Regards
DL

Nobody knows. To bad no one is actually satisfied with that answer, despite it being true.


Process of elimination.

If it is a condition of our body or mind, and it is and must be, then to me it has to be gene and DNA generated.

Regards
DL



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11 Apr 2015, 4:14 pm

appletheclown wrote:
Ok, time for some clarification.

What do believe is that we shouldn't accept lgbt folks purely on the basis they are born that way.
If they aren't, people will try to change them, if they are some lgbt will think they are trapped.
What I am saying is, we need to accept them on the basis they are human, living and breathing.

As for the gay gene, I tend to lean on the it is a myth side because I believe to not know and to still accept
lgbt folks as equals is more compassionate than accepting them purely because they have no choice in the matter of who they want to have sex with.

To know would mean many people may say they accept lgbt folks as equals, but only because they can't help it,
and that isn't genuine.

I am by no means a homophobe, nor do I think of lgbt folks as lesser, I would just rather their own choices define them, not the chemicals in their body.


I think it is chemical thanks to DNA.

Check his out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6fpiqp ... r_embedded

Regards
DL



appletheclown
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11 Apr 2015, 10:43 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:

I think it is chemical thanks to DNA.

Check his out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6fpiqp ... r_embedded

Regards
DL

Nice story, that still doesn't change my opinion.
To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil. I don't and will never understand people who think love, and such emotions are just chemicals.
I never will. I will die a thousand times over before I think such an absurd thing like that.

DNA doesn't make me accept people as equals, and it never will. I accept people for who they are by choice, and compassion, not because of DNA.


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12 Apr 2015, 12:35 am

"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!



GnosticBishop
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12 Apr 2015, 8:29 am

KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!


Yes. Without DNA none of us would be here.

appletheclown

Who told you that love was just DNA and chemistry?

Love cannot be called true love without it being expressed towards someone and reciprocity taking place.

Sure, some will distort the word love by saying they love everyone but that is not true love as is shared between people who express their love for another who reciprocates. Love must be reflected back to you to be true love.

One cannot love alone. Those emotions that are not reflected back are not true love.

When we use the phrase, love my neighbor, it is not the same love that we have for wife and children etc..

Regards
DL



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12 Apr 2015, 10:32 am

KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!

I know that. You are not getting my point.
It is as enraging as the predestiny myth to have someone say, "oh its just your DNA"
To have my choices, my values, my favorite foods, my skills, and my love for any woman chalked up to DNA makes no sense at all. To have who I molded myself to be chalked up to, "Oh you were born that way" is infuriating.

I'm not nice to people because of DNA.


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12 Apr 2015, 10:41 am

appletheclown wrote:
KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!

I know that. You are not getting my point.
It is as enraging as the predestiny myth to have someone say, "oh its just your DNA"
To have my choices, my values, my favorite foods, my skills, and my love for any woman chalked up to DNA makes no sense at all. To have who I molded myself to be chalked up to, "Oh you were born that way" is infuriating.

I'm not nice to people because of DNA.


You just got lucky (at least for the things you like) in the DNA lottery and you want to take all the credit for it. When a person is born on third base, he or she can't claim a triple...



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12 Apr 2015, 12:10 pm

pcuser wrote:
appletheclown wrote:
KimD wrote:
"To have any part of me defined by something as insignificant and worthless as DNA,
makes my blood boil."

What nonsense. Without DNA, you would not exist at all!

I know that. You are not getting my point.
It is as enraging as the predestiny myth to have someone say, "oh its just your DNA"
To have my choices, my values, my favorite foods, my skills, and my love for any woman chalked up to DNA makes no sense at all. To have who I molded myself to be chalked up to, "Oh you were born that way" is infuriating.

I'm not nice to people because of DNA.


You just got lucky (at least for the things you like) in the DNA lottery and you want to take all the credit for it. When a person is born on third base, he or she can't claim a triple...


Actually, you are. It is a part of your survival instinct that says that cooperation, or being nice to people, gives a better chance for you to survive than to not be nice or IOW, compete against others.

Check this out buddy and recognize that what you are is whatever your DNA says you are. I am not saying that you have no choices in what you do, --- you do, --- but you cannot deny that DNA does reduce some of your choices.



Regards
DL



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25 Apr 2015, 6:30 pm

I don't think homosexuality is compatible with Christianity because of the inherent sexual negativity imbedded in the monotheistic faiths. You can't edit the bible to suite your political ends( like you were able to several centuries ago), so to be a "Christian" while homosexual means that you are rejecting a long-standing( albeit bigoted) tenet of the Christian faith. Thus you would not be a Christian, just a person having "Christian" values.



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25 Apr 2015, 7:10 pm

I am not a Christian, but I don't think that homosexual acts are any more sinful in Christianity than for example heterosexual sex outside of marriage or any of the other sins. People are saved through their acceptance of Christ and not because they committed fewer sins than other people.