Can Homosexuality and the Christian Faith Exist Together?

Page 3 of 12 [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12  Next

Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,440
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

12 Mar 2015, 5:03 pm

Campbell1324 wrote:
Staremaster, read this! =)

Here's an idea. "I am the light of the world. He who follows me shall not be condemned but have everlasting life"

By the very definition of that, we are not condemned. But look at this

"He who condemns sin is already condemned. But he who condemns sin not is saved."

These are the words of Jesus. What I wanted was the first messager's way of speaking to be used by all of you people (not necessarily the exact way but in the meaning of the words), because it states this. Though I skimmed it, but I knew it was stating such a thing, yeah...

If you would please understand this message, it would make the meaning of the posts on this part of the PPR. This was meant to discuss the reasons why Homosexuality is such and area that could possibly be wiped from our souls since it is sin! ha. Trust me, both me and my family members have agreed and we basically have experienced it ourselves (but one is still in denial that God can take this away)


Or maybe they aren't in denial and simply do not share your beliefs...and have no desire to change their homosexual ways.


_________________
We won't go back.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

12 Mar 2015, 6:13 pm

As Christianity is presented in the New Testament, any kind of adultery, that is, sex between individuals who are not husband and wife, goes against Christian doctrine or the words of the Christos as they appear in the New Testament. Christos is just the anointed one, liaison between God and man. Anyone guilty of adultery must repent or be cast out as a reprobate or apostate. That is pretty much how Christos is presented in the New Testament. You cannot fit adultery into Christianity. I have reached this conclusion after studying what is in the New Testament. Adultery can be present, but the adulterer is to be forever rebuked by Christians or cast out, in some cases.

Homosexuality is a form of adultery, according those who wrote the Bible.

I am not arguing for or against what is in the Bible, since I am gnostic I merely study what is in it but I do not see it as God.



alomoes
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 20 Jan 2015
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 38

12 Mar 2015, 6:34 pm

Well, it depends if you follow the rules in the bible or not. What do you think Jesus would say?

This site is so dated looking, I love it. http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/b ... n_gay.html



Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

12 Mar 2015, 7:45 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
LGBT people are BORN that way, IMO.

We have to get away from the binary idea of nature vs nurture. It's a spectrum between the two. Some will be closer to the nurture end and can be diverted in either direction. Others are closer to the nature end and can no more be diverted than the ocean tide can be.


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

12 Mar 2015, 8:13 pm

As far as gays and the Catholic church go, the way the church is structured pretty much creates a safe haven for men who are attracted to other men. It's not a matter of Christianity peacefully coexisting with homosexuality or even feeling at ease with it, more like the priest hood would be the kind of life which appeals to a man who likes being surrounded by and at ease with members of the same sex. Men who want to be surrounded by beautiful women would not be attracted to the life of a priest or monk in the first place and wouldn't even consider such a choice. Since a gay subculture exists in the church, you see it easier for other gays to join pretty soon there's a strong gay undercurrent that has nothing to do with the religion as it is presented in the Bible and everything to do with the kind of structure the Catholic church created.

It's similar with the military. It would appeal more to men who prefer the company of other males although it's getting more and more desegregated as women's presence is abundant nowadays. Any kind of profession that allows men to be in constant contact with other men and hardly any with women is naturally going to appeal to men who like being with other men. That's just a given.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,563

12 Mar 2015, 8:15 pm

Narrator wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
LGBT people are BORN that way, IMO.

We have to get away from the binary idea of nature vs nurture. It's a spectrum between the two. Some will be closer to the nurture end and can be diverted in either direction. Others are closer to the nature end and can no more be diverted than the ocean tide can be.


Facebook Like 1

:)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 33,881
Location: temperate zone

12 Mar 2015, 9:04 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
As Christianity is presented in the New Testament, any kind of adultery, that is, sex between individuals who are not husband and wife, goes against Christian doctrine or the words of the Christos as they appear in the New Testament. Christos is just the anointed one, liaison between God and man. Anyone guilty of adultery must repent or be cast out as a reprobate or apostate. That is pretty much how Christos is presented in the New Testament. You cannot fit adultery into Christianity. I have reached this conclusion after studying what is in the New Testament. Adultery can be present, but the adulterer is to be forever rebuked by Christians or cast out, in some cases.

Homosexuality is a form of adultery, according those who wrote the Bible.

I am not arguing for or against what is in the Bible, since I am gnostic I merely study what is in it but I do not see it as God.


More, or less, my understanding of it.

Homosexual acts would be either premarital, or extramarital, sex (depending upon the marital status of those involved). And would also be "sodomy". The Bible specifically mentions "men laying with men" being forbidden, but lesbian acts are-well- the Bible didnt seem to get around to mentioning that from what Bible scholars here on WP say.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,563

12 Mar 2015, 10:11 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
As far as gays and the Catholic church go, the way the church is structured pretty much creates a safe haven for men who are attracted to other men. It's not a matter of Christianity peacefully coexisting with homosexuality or even feeling at ease with it, more like the priest hood would be the kind of life which appeals to a man who likes being surrounded by and at ease with members of the same sex. Men who want to be surrounded by beautiful women would not be attracted to the life of a priest or monk in the first place and wouldn't even consider such a choice. Since a gay subculture exists in the church, you see it easier for other gays to join pretty soon there's a strong gay undercurrent that has nothing to do with the religion as it is presented in the Bible and everything to do with the kind of structure the Catholic church created.

It's similar with the military. It would appeal more to men who prefer the company of other males although it's getting more and more desegregated as women's presence is abundant nowadays. Any kind of profession that allows men to be in constant contact with other men and hardly any with women is naturally going to appeal to men who like being with other men. That's just a given.


Truly sad though that even Catholic Priests have to live a life of lie, and guilt, just 'cause 'GOD' made 'em that way.

The Catholic church continues to change, and the same reason OF HUMAN MINDS that finally WINS out on women required to have their heads covered, and strict rules on ex-communication, will be relaxed eventually with homosexuals, too, and Pope Francis is evidence of that future reality, already.

I mean seriously, I take the eucharist every week, and never go to confession, 'cause I need to get up and stretch my legs a little bit. It's a peaceful ritual but that's all it is, a meaningful ritual, and no frigging requirement from THE God with no written rules..:)

God is no micromanager but naturally anxious humans are.

If GOD was here, GOD would probably be more like a noble tiger OR LION, than a scared, frail, little human being trapped in illusory thoughts.

In FACT, GOD ALREADY LIVES STRONGLY IN LIONS AND TIGERS, AND SADLY weaker in human beings, as is obvious as the worried looks on the facades of faces do tell the tale of that 'tail' between the legs, even in Super Walmart, in the most fundamentalist Christian towns, in the world.

Yeah, I know, I've most always lived in the New World 'Christian Jerusalem', at least according to the record books for Christian churches per square mile.

The 'real Jesus' would be like 'NEO' here, and go completely unnoticed as any person close to any real balanced mind and body person in GOD, would, as most modern Christians have no earthly idea what THAT reality IS ALL ABOUT.

IT MIGHT AS WELL BE ANOTHER DIMENSION in Star Trek, or Star Wars, with the FORCE and YODA, and all that 'stuff'..;)

And until they learn there is A NEVER ENDING practice of being with GOD aligned and NOT JUST SOME WORDS OUT OF A BOOK TO RECITE, THEY WILL NEVER BE in balance with GOD.

It's real.

It's no JOKE.

And no fairy tale BY FAR FAR FAR..
IN THE FULLEST OF HUMAN POTENTIAL
EXERCISED IN A PERFECTION OF PRACTICE
THAT NEVER EVER ENDS WITH ALWAYS A HIGHER
LEVEL TO GO IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE FORCE OF ALL
THAT
IS
NOW
IN MIND AND BODY BALANCE AKA GOD OR MOTHER NATURE TRUE
EXPRESSED IN ANIMALS LIKE HUMAN BEINGS AND BETTER OF COURSE
IN OTHER ANIMALS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID OF THE DARKNESS OR LIGHT
OF
GOD
AND
I
THINK
THIS PHOENIX
NEEDS A SLIGHTLY
LONGER TALE TO FLY!


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


slave
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Feb 2012
Age: 111
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,420
Location: Dystopia Planetia

12 Mar 2015, 10:14 pm

Campbell1324 wrote:
This is more of a religious discussion topic that I had just thought about off the top of my head, and I will not be bias to anyone's beliefs whatsoever since I supposedly gay at one time.

I'm very new here, but my ideas are just as good as anyone's.

I'm not here to share personal experiences, but recently I have been straying away from homosexuality the more I've become a Christian. This raises the question in my head. Is God changing the hearts of LGBT people because Paul and formerly He as Himself indoctrinated it into our heads, in the bible no less? Is it just not acceptable for God, or can we coexist with God and our human nature while our faith grows?

Or... can even give up our lust for the same sex but still be gay? As far I can tell, they're all viable yeses.

I just want you guys to hang on this, and I'll check the discussion every once and awhile.


may i ask if English is your mother tongue?



xenocity
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Dec 2014
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,282
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan

12 Mar 2015, 10:47 pm

Yes homosexuality and christianity can coexist.

Here's a little known fact about the Bible....

The Bible has been edited and revised numerous times in history.
Through these editing and revisions numerous items have been deleted and added.
The last time they did this was in the 1940s, when homosexuality, tattoos, and others were added to the bible.
The Catholic bible was canonized around the year 400 A.D.
It was recanonized in the Council of Trent (1545 - 1563), this is when numerous decisions were made.
This is also where the formal definition of marriage was handed down by God, where he said a marriage is only permitted between one man and one woman of the Catholic faith, the man had to be Catholic and the woman had to renounce her faith and convert to Catholicism. The two witnesses had to be Catholic and it had to be ordained by a male member of the clergy (they had to perform the wedding and sign the certificate).
If you didn't meet this official definition your marriage wasn't legal at all and was considered a sin.

Each branch of christianity has it's own canon bible which differs on which books are part of the new testament.

At the First Lateran Council in 1123 banned the Catholic clergy from getting married and having sex.
It wasn't until 305 when the Catholic church declared homosexuality a sin.

Times are a changing thanks to science, it's only a matter of time before the homosexuality decree is reversed along with the clergy marriage and sex ban by the Vatican.

Though the real question is whether or not Catholics are the true christians and whether or not the rest are lead by Satan.
Apostle Peter (he was also first pope) had a vision that Satan would break up the church by posing as member of the clergy.


_________________
Something.... Weird... Something...


Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

12 Mar 2015, 11:54 pm

Wow! Where do I begin with that lot?

xenocity wrote:
Through these editing and revisions numerous items have been deleted and added.

That much is true.

xenocity wrote:
The last time they did this was in the 1940s, when homosexuality, tattoos, and others were added to the bible.
Ummm.. which Bible? Many Bible versions have been produced in the last hundred years, and from original sources.

xenocity wrote:
Each branch of christianity has it's own canon bible which differs on which books are part of the new testament.

For the great majority there are really only two Bibles - Protestant versions without the Apocrypha, and Catholic versions with the Apocrypha.

xenocity wrote:
Though the real question is whether or not Catholics are the true christians and whether or not the rest are lead by Satan.
Apostle Peter (he was also first pope) had a vision that Satan would break up the church by posing as member of the clergy.

I don't recall that vision. I recall Paul getting pissed at the Corinthians over division, but the only vision I recall Peter having was over letting gentiles into the faith.

As far as the "real question" (pertinent to this thread) to me it's this: Why in this enlightened age do we still need the rhetoric of sin and judgement? Homosexuals should not need religious validation.


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

13 Mar 2015, 1:01 am

aghogday wrote:

Truly sad though that even Catholic Priests have to live a life of lie, and guilt, just 'cause 'GOD' made 'em that way.

The Catholic church continues to change, and the same reason OF HUMAN MINDS that finally WINS out on women required to have their heads covered, and strict rules on ex-communication, will be relaxed eventually with homosexuals, too, and Pope Francis is evidence of that future reality, already.

I mean seriously, I take the eucharist every week, and never go to confession, 'cause I need to get up and stretch my legs a little bit. It's a peaceful ritual but that's all it is, a meaningful ritual, and no frigging requirement from THE God with no written rules..:)

God is no micromanager but naturally anxious humans are.

If GOD was here, GOD would probably be more like a noble tiger OR LION, than a scared, frail, little human being trapped in illusory thoughts.

In FACT, GOD ALREADY LIVES STRONGLY IN LIONS AND TIGERS, AND SADLY weaker in human beings, as is obvious as the worried looks on the facades of faces do tell the tale of that 'tail' between the legs, even in Super Walmart, in the most fundamentalist Christian towns, in the world.

Yeah, I know, I've most always lived in the New World 'Christian Jerusalem', at least according to the record books for Christian churches per square mile.

The 'real Jesus' would be like 'NEO' here, and go completely unnoticed as any person close to any real balanced mind and body person in GOD, would, as most modern Christians have no earthly idea what THAT reality IS ALL ABOUT.

IT MIGHT AS WELL BE ANOTHER DIMENSION in Star Trek, or Star Wars, with the FORCE and YODA, and all that 'stuff'..;)

And until they learn there is A NEVER ENDING practice of being with GOD aligned and NOT JUST SOME WORDS OUT OF A BOOK TO RECITE, THEY WILL NEVER BE in balance with GOD.

It's real.

It's no JOKE.

And no fairy tale BY FAR FAR FAR..
IN THE FULLEST OF HUMAN POTENTIAL
EXERCISED IN A PERFECTION OF PRACTICE
THAT NEVER EVER ENDS WITH ALWAYS A HIGHER
LEVEL TO GO IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE FORCE OF ALL
THAT
IS
NOW
IN MIND AND BODY BALANCE AKA GOD OR MOTHER NATURE TRUE
EXPRESSED IN ANIMALS LIKE HUMAN BEINGS AND BETTER OF COURSE
IN OTHER ANIMALS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID OF THE DARKNESS OR LIGHT
OF
GOD
AND
I
THINK
THIS PHOENIX
NEEDS A SLIGHTLY
LONGER TALE TO FLY!

Even though I am not gay, I do not really fit into what is presented in what is known as the Bible today which pretty much says your duty to God is to stay with one partner your entire life and have as many kids as you can and that is totally not me. I see no point in someone who doesn't want to do that being forced to just to appear as a "good Christian" so I don't fit in with the traditional values of the church any more than gays and even less since many gays want to marry and have kids. They want to do the same as the heteros, pretty much, only they want same sex unions instead of opposite sex ones. Still don't understand why they want to have much to do with the New Testament as it looks today.



aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,563

13 Mar 2015, 3:22 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
aghogday wrote:

Truly sad though that even Catholic Priests have to live a life of lie, and guilt, just 'cause 'GOD' made 'em that way.

The Catholic church continues to change, and the same reason OF HUMAN MINDS that finally WINS out on women required to have their heads covered, and strict rules on ex-communication, will be relaxed eventually with homosexuals, too, and Pope Francis is evidence of that future reality, already.

I mean seriously, I take the eucharist every week, and never go to confession, 'cause I need to get up and stretch my legs a little bit. It's a peaceful ritual but that's all it is, a meaningful ritual, and no frigging requirement from THE God with no written rules..:)

God is no micromanager but naturally anxious humans are.

If GOD was here, GOD would probably be more like a noble tiger OR LION, than a scared, frail, little human being trapped in illusory thoughts.

In FACT, GOD ALREADY LIVES STRONGLY IN LIONS AND TIGERS, AND SADLY weaker in human beings, as is obvious as the worried looks on the facades of faces do tell the tale of that 'tail' between the legs, even in Super Walmart, in the most fundamentalist Christian towns, in the world.

Yeah, I know, I've most always lived in the New World 'Christian Jerusalem', at least according to the record books for Christian churches per square mile.

The 'real Jesus' would be like 'NEO' here, and go completely unnoticed as any person close to any real balanced mind and body person in GOD, would, as most modern Christians have no earthly idea what THAT reality IS ALL ABOUT.

IT MIGHT AS WELL BE ANOTHER DIMENSION in Star Trek, or Star Wars, with the FORCE and YODA, and all that 'stuff'..;)

And until they learn there is A NEVER ENDING practice of being with GOD aligned and NOT JUST SOME WORDS OUT OF A BOOK TO RECITE, THEY WILL NEVER BE in balance with GOD.

It's real.

It's no JOKE.

And no fairy tale BY FAR FAR FAR..
IN THE FULLEST OF HUMAN POTENTIAL
EXERCISED IN A PERFECTION OF PRACTICE
THAT NEVER EVER ENDS WITH ALWAYS A HIGHER
LEVEL TO GO IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE FORCE OF ALL
THAT
IS
NOW
IN MIND AND BODY BALANCE AKA GOD OR MOTHER NATURE TRUE
EXPRESSED IN ANIMALS LIKE HUMAN BEINGS AND BETTER OF COURSE
IN OTHER ANIMALS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID OF THE DARKNESS OR LIGHT
OF
GOD
AND
I
THINK
THIS PHOENIX
NEEDS A SLIGHTLY
LONGER TALE TO FLY!

Even though I am not gay, I do not really fit into what is presented in what is known as the Bible today which pretty much says your duty to God is to stay with one partner your entire life and have as many kids as you can and that is totally not me. I see no point in someone who doesn't want to do that being forced to just to appear as a "good Christian" so I don't fit in with the traditional values of the church any more than gays and even less since many gays want to marry and have kids. They want to do the same as the heteros, pretty much, only they want same sex unions instead of opposite sex ones. Still don't understand why they want to have much to do with the New Testament as it looks today.


Yeah, I don't fit in with it either but my old high school buddy that was my tennis partner is the Monsignor, and he does a good job of leaving all the negative stuff from the labyrinth that is the Catholic Church out of the Sunday Service, and I like to sing, so it's a good opportunity to practice that more than anything else, really. :)

I haven't missed a Sunday since around September of 2013, as yeah, it makes me feel good to sing and connect to other folks singing. :)


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

13 Mar 2015, 2:34 pm

Narrator wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
LGBT people are BORN that way, IMO.

We have to get away from the binary idea of nature vs nurture. It's a spectrum between the two. Some will be closer to the nurture end and can be diverted in either direction. Others are closer to the nature end and can no more be diverted than the ocean tide can be.


Yeah, I agree. I've had the same feeling, for many years, now----the feeling that sometimes it's "nurture"----but, I don't think it really matters, in the broad scheme of things. I'm thinking that it only matters to the individual, and in what way they "self-identify".




_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)


pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

13 Mar 2015, 4:23 pm

Nambo wrote:
Whilst yes indeed, homosexuality is a Biblical sin, so is looking at a woman with desire so not only are homosexuals condemned, so are 99% of hetrosexual males.
In fact there is possibly nobody alive who is good enough to earn salvation from their own goodness.

But don't forget the purpose of the Mosiac Law was to show mankind, via the Abrahamic Jews, that it was impossible for man to earn his own salvation by his own good behaviour and was therefore a "tutor leading to the Christ" in that it demonstrated we need God,s mercy and gift of the sacrifice of his son to pay for our sins.

If everyone was good, Jesus death would be un-nessasary, so Jesus died to save the likes of homosexuals along with the rest of us, the condemnation evident in the New Testament is to ensure we all realise we need Christ and to stop us being self-righteous.

There is of course a further debate asking at what point Jesus mercy becomes void if it is used as an excuse to abandon ones self to sin?

The bible is a fairy tale. It was written by people who couldn't explain the natural world... It's another creation mythology as are most if not all religions...



Narrator
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2014
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060
Location: Melbourne, Australia

13 Mar 2015, 6:28 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Narrator wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
LGBT people are BORN that way, IMO.

We have to get away from the binary idea of nature vs nurture. It's a spectrum between the two. Some will be closer to the nurture end and can be diverted in either direction. Others are closer to the nature end and can no more be diverted than the ocean tide can be.


Yeah, I agree. I've had the same feeling, for many years, now----the feeling that sometimes it's "nurture"----but, I don't think it really matters, in the broad scheme of things. I'm thinking that it only matters to the individual, and in what way they "self-identify".

Very true, and well said.


_________________
I'm not blind to your facial expression - but it may take me a few minutes to comprehend it.
A smile is not always a smile.
A frown is not always a frown.
And a blank look rarely means a blank mind.