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Rollo
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24 Mar 2015, 5:26 pm

pezar wrote:
I don't know why Eisenhower refused to let Patton take Prague, but to conclude that he was a Commie from that one act is absurd.


I never claimed he was, but I can understand why people think he was unknowingly influenced by Communists. My point was to encourage people to look into some facts about that time in history. Some of those facts may mean nothing, but not all of them, because when you combine them they point to a level of Communist subversion in 40s and 50s America far higher than is generally acknowledged.

The_Walrus wrote:
Rollo wrote:
<snip>

I think your post can fairly be reduced to four points:
1) The US (and perhaps their Western allies) should have declared war on the Soviet Union in 1945. - this has been dealt with by another user


Hardly.

The_Walrus wrote:
2) There actually were some Soviet spies in the US in the 50s - surely nobody is surprised? There were US spies in Russia too. I think people mock McCarthy for the hundreds he persecuted for no good reason (such as Arthur Miller himself), not for the few he got right. (Side note: that BBC documentary was made by a Jewish journalist, raised by far-left parents, who supported the Iraq war. Kinda undermines the "Jews and Commies are running the show" thing if they go exposing each other, right?)


1. McCarthy got more than a "few" right. The true extent of Communist infiltration in the US government in the 50s was abnormally large and far closer to what McCarthy claimed than what the media at the time would admit. That was the whole point of the articles I posted, so please spare us talk about how there were US spies in Russia too as if "there's nothing to see here - move on!" (Subtext- "look at how rational and level-headed I am everyone.")

2. I never said Commies were running the show at all. I merely provided evidence that Communist subversion in the US in the 40s and 50s was far greater than is generally acknowledged. I did this in defence of what I believe to be one of the OP's general points (that many facts about US 20th and 21st century history and politics are quite different from what most people have been led to believe) against those posters who either won't look at the facts or dismiss them as irrelevant. I believe my own view is simpler than that of the OP though. My own view is that in trying to understand the American political landscape it helps to think not so much in terms of 'Communists', 'cultural Marxists', 'Zionists' or 'neoconservatives' etc but just in terms of Jews using these '-isms' as tools for as long or as short as they deem them useful.

3. I know who Aaronovitch is, and his background does not undermine my argument at all. I specifically chose that link for the benefit of those who won't pay attention to anything unless it's published by a "respectable" media outlet. It's safe enough now all these decades later to admit that McCarthy had been right when the identities (and backgrounds) of the majority of the people he was right about will not be brought to the public's attention. Plus, it helps Aaronovitch to pose as an admirer of America. Otherwise people might think that this supposed leftist's support for the Iraq war was related to Israel or something.

The_Walrus wrote:
3) The USA supports Israel despite not receiving much in exchange - it receives a fair bit more than it would from Palestine, and the US has a record of supporting causes for no real benefit to itself (see: Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Guatemala...)


Never mind Palestine - US support for Israel alienates the US from virtually the entire Muslim Middle East, which has more to offer the US than Israel does.

The_Walrus wrote:
4) Jews run the US - this is definitely true. The US is run by Jews such as Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, the Bushes, the Clintons, the Pauls, Newt Gingrich, Nixon, Reagan, Carter, the Kennedys... (note: none of these people are Jews)


Lol, big deal. Given this sort of superficial analysis I'd almost be unsurprised if you went on to claim that Britain was really run by the Windsors.

Perhaps instead of focusing solely on the actors on stage with their teleprompters, you might like to look at the ruling narrative that they actors work within - look into the media, academia, think tanks, speechwriters etc who produce and police that narrative and who tell the voters what to think, and consider whose group interests that narrative serves and whose it tramples on.



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24 Mar 2015, 5:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
Whathappened wrote:
... Go away please.
No.

Debunking conspiracy theories is a special interest of mine, and you've just proposed at least one that I've debunked before.

The game is afoot!

:twisted:


It used to be a special interest of mine too for a few months until I discovered I didn't understand nearly as much about the world as I thought I did.

I would advise people to navigate some sort of middle ground between believing that 'everything authority says is a lie' and believing that 'anyone who questions what authority says is a kook'.



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24 Mar 2015, 6:03 pm

OMG this thread is right out there. OP, you believe what you want to believe, no evidence of any kind would be acceptable to you but that which supports your conspiracy theory - you are in a loop of circular thought which is self-reinforcing.

Reminds me of one definition of denial:

Don't
Even
No
I
Am
Lying



Rollo
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24 Mar 2015, 6:23 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The USA is not Marxist. If anything it's fascist where big government and big cooperation's are indistinguishable with a surveillance state. Who wrote Obamacare? the insurance industry.


Sweetleaf wrote:
Whathappened wrote:
It amazes me in this day and age that people still believe what they are told on television or the media, as gospel truth. Do you think governments don't lie or are corrupt? ....They are. ..
Haha.


Well duh, but doesn't mean its the commies or marxists are taking over....if anything things are moving in a more fascist direction.


It's bizarre how often this claim about America becoming fascist appears online, and how little opposition it receives on threads like this. All that people usually have to substantiate this claim is some vague stuff about the government and business working together. I mean, if that is really the hallmark of fascism doesn't it make the people who make this claim wonder what is supposed to be so scary about fascism in the first place?



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24 Mar 2015, 8:15 pm

Rollo wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The USA is not Marxist. If anything it's fascist where big government and big cooperation's are indistinguishable with a surveillance state. Who wrote Obamacare? the insurance industry.


Sweetleaf wrote:
Whathappened wrote:
It amazes me in this day and age that people still believe what they are told on television or the media, as gospel truth. Do you think governments don't lie or are corrupt? ....They are. ..
Haha.


Well duh, but doesn't mean its the commies or marxists are taking over....if anything things are moving in a more fascist direction.


It's bizarre how often this claim about America becoming fascist appears online, and how little opposition it receives on threads like this. All that people usually have to substantiate this claim is some vague stuff about the government and business working together. I mean, if that is really the hallmark of fascism doesn't it make the people who make this claim wonder what is supposed to be so scary about fascism in the first place?


We got or are getting a surveillance state. America has always been more openly nationalistic displaying symbols then most places. Businesses and government are much more then cooperating for the common good. They are setting the agenda and increasingly controlling what information goes out and how it is slanted. People coming into government from big business or visa versa or both is commonplace often for mutual profit damm the citizens.

We don't have outright open totalitarianism yet although what has done openly would have been unthinkable before 9/11.
2012 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA).
A few mass casualty terrorist events in my view all bets are off.


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24 Mar 2015, 8:21 pm

Rollo wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The USA is not Marxist. If anything it's fascist where big government and big cooperation's are indistinguishable with a surveillance state. Who wrote Obamacare? the insurance industry.


Sweetleaf wrote:
Whathappened wrote:
It amazes me in this day and age that people still believe what they are told on television or the media, as gospel truth. Do you think governments don't lie or are corrupt? ....They are. ..
Haha.


Well duh, but doesn't mean its the commies or marxists are taking over....if anything things are moving in a more fascist direction.


It's bizarre how often this claim about America becoming fascist appears online, and how little opposition it receives on threads like this. All that people usually have to substantiate this claim is some vague stuff about the government and business working together. I mean, if that is really the hallmark of fascism doesn't it make the people who make this claim wonder what is supposed to be so scary about fascism in the first place?


Well, let's look at instances where a truly communist government takes over a country that was formerly capitalist. Both my examples come from South America, but they should apply everywhere.

In Chile, Salvador Allende took power in 1972 or 73. Immediately, he started expropriating private companies, basically seizing private businesses to be run by govt bureaucrats. He also instituted wage and price freezes. This immediately caused massive shortages of goods as citizens started to hoard supplies. Then the inflation started, since there were too few goods the prices on what was available soared, eventually becoming hyperinflation. As the hyperinflation reached its peak, the Chilean army killed Allende and took power. During the hyperinflation, there were all sorts of weird market distortions-I read online how a guy was offered an apartment in exchange for his cheap Fiat auto. He declined, and eventually regretted it.

In Venezuela, Hugo Chavez took power in 1998. The same pattern emerged-expropriation of private business, wage and price controls, shortages, hyperinflation. He beat back a couple attempts at a coup, and died in bed, holding power till the end. Today, the Venezuelan govt uses national ID cards to find and kill "hoarders".

So, is Obama a communist? Do you see him seizing private businesses for the benefit of the "state", meaning him and his buddies? Do you see wage and price controls? Do you see lines at supermarkets as panicked Americans try to spend rapidly inflating dollars on basic goods while they have the goods available? Do you see mass shortages, and "hoarders" being shot in the streets?

No?

Well, I guess Obama (who I don't really like myself) isn't too terribly communistic, is he? By that yardstick, Richard Nixon was more of a communist than Obama-he instituted wage and price controls, he considered a gasoline rationing system to the point where ration books were printed. Where are the Obama Ration Books?

If anything, you see Big Business and Big Government working together, which is a hallmark of fascism-socialism for the elite, capitalism for the little guy. All reward for the elite, all risk for the peons.



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24 Mar 2015, 9:52 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
We got or are getting a surveillance state.

Increased digital transparency is not necessarily a bad thing.



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24 Mar 2015, 11:17 pm

Humanaut wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
We got or are getting a surveillance state.

Increased digital transparency is not necessarily a bad thing.


Yes it is. Privacy was considered sacred American value we have voluntarily given up for security. Society decides they don't like a certain word or point of view you are more likely to get caught doing it now. It could mean government conspiracy but more likely just mass online shaming, loss of job, death threats, identity theft or destruction or worse because they can find out where you live. Security?


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25 Mar 2015, 2:43 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Humanaut wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
We got or are getting a surveillance state.
Increased digital transparency is not necessarily a bad thing.
Yes it is.

Subjectively speaking, perhaps, but only if you're a terrorist, involved in illegal file sharing, or downloading child porn. Law abiding minions who have nothing to hide, have nothing to fear. The digital highway patrol is a protector of rights, objectively speaking, and your IP address is your license plate.



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25 Mar 2015, 12:01 pm

B19 wrote:
OMG this thread is right out there. OP, you believe what you want to believe, no evidence of any kind would be acceptable to you but that which supports your conspiracy theory - you are in a loop of circular thought which is self-reinforcing.

Reminds me of one definition of denial:

Don't
Even
No
I
Am
Lying



Yeah except that I'm actually speaking the truth - and not lying. You're so deluded and propagandized that you can't see the ridiculousness of what you just said; you projected exactly what you did to ME, down to the line. Not wanting to see reality, and saying "I don't like reality but I accept things might be different from what I've been told" are worlds apart from eachother.

You live in complete denial of what's going on...it's not surprising though political correctness has really done a number on people ....haha..it's insane.



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25 Mar 2015, 12:32 pm

Rollo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
2) There actually were some Soviet spies in the US in the 50s - surely nobody is surprised? There were US spies in Russia too. I think people mock McCarthy for the hundreds he persecuted for no good reason (such as Arthur Miller himself), not for the few he got right. (Side note: that BBC documentary was made by a Jewish journalist, raised by far-left parents, who supported the Iraq war. Kinda undermines the "Jews and Commies are running the show" thing if they go exposing each other, right?)


2. I never said Commies were running the show at all. I merely provided evidence that Communist subversion in the US in the 40s and 50s was far greater than is generally acknowledged. I did this in defence of what I believe to be one of the OP's general points (that many facts about US 20th and 21st century history and politics are quite different from what most people have been led to believe) against those posters who either won't look at the facts or dismiss them as irrelevant. I believe my own view is simpler than that of the OP though. My own view is that in trying to understand the American political landscape it helps to think not so much in terms of 'Communists', 'cultural Marxists', 'Zionists' or 'neoconservatives' etc but just in terms of Jews using these '-isms' as tools for as long or as short as they deem them useful.

3. I know who Aaronovitch is, and his background does not undermine my argument at all. I specifically chose that link for the benefit of those who won't pay attention to anything unless it's published by a "respectable" media outlet. It's safe enough now all these decades later to admit that McCarthy had been right when the identities (and backgrounds) of the majority of the people he was right about will not be brought to the public's attention. Plus, it helps Aaronovitch to pose as an admirer of America. Otherwise people might think that this supposed leftist's support for the Iraq war was related to Israel or something.

OK, let's forget Communists. Jews run America. Britain too?

Does that include the Aaronovitch family?

Rollo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
3) The USA supports Israel despite not receiving much in exchange - it receives a fair bit more than it would from Palestine, and the US has a record of supporting causes for no real benefit to itself (see: Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Guatemala...)


Never mind Palestine - US support for Israel alienates the US from virtually the entire Muslim Middle East, which has more to offer the US than Israel does.

You only answered half my point...

US support for Israel does not alienate it from the entire Muslim Middle East. The US enjoys good relationships with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Turkey, even Egypt, Afghanistan... the only country it actively has a bad relationship with is Iran, and even that's defrosting. The US is just too valuable an ally (and trade partner) for the elite in those nations to neglect it.



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25 Mar 2015, 1:02 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Rollo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
2) There actually were some Soviet spies in the US in the 50s - surely nobody is surprised? There were US spies in Russia too. I think people mock McCarthy for the hundreds he persecuted for no good reason (such as Arthur Miller himself), not for the few he got right. (Side note: that BBC documentary was made by a Jewish journalist, raised by far-left parents, who supported the Iraq war. Kinda undermines the "Jews and Commies are running the show" thing if they go exposing each other, right?)


2. I never said Commies were running the show at all. I merely provided evidence that Communist subversion in the US in the 40s and 50s was far greater than is generally acknowledged. I did this in defence of what I believe to be one of the OP's general points (that many facts about US 20th and 21st century history and politics are quite different from what most people have been led to believe) against those posters who either won't look at the facts or dismiss them as irrelevant. I believe my own view is simpler than that of the OP though. My own view is that in trying to understand the American political landscape it helps to think not so much in terms of 'Communists', 'cultural Marxists', 'Zionists' or 'neoconservatives' etc but just in terms of Jews using these '-isms' as tools for as long or as short as they deem them useful.

3. I know who Aaronovitch is, and his background does not undermine my argument at all. I specifically chose that link for the benefit of those who won't pay attention to anything unless it's published by a "respectable" media outlet. It's safe enough now all these decades later to admit that McCarthy had been right when the identities (and backgrounds) of the majority of the people he was right about will not be brought to the public's attention. Plus, it helps Aaronovitch to pose as an admirer of America. Otherwise people might think that this supposed leftist's support for the Iraq war was related to Israel or something.

OK, let's forget Communists. Jews run America. Britain too?

Does that include the Aaronovitch family?

Rollo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
3) The USA supports Israel despite not receiving much in exchange - it receives a fair bit more than it would from Palestine, and the US has a record of supporting causes for no real benefit to itself (see: Libya, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Guatemala...)


Never mind Palestine - US support for Israel alienates the US from virtually the entire Muslim Middle East, which has more to offer the US than Israel does.

You only answered half my point...

US support for Israel does not alienate it from the entire Muslim Middle East. The US enjoys good relationships with countries such as Saudi Arabia and Turkey, even Egypt, Afghanistan... the only country it actively has a bad relationship with is Iran, and even that's defrosting. The US is just too valuable an ally (and trade partner) for the elite in those nations to neglect it.





Yea it does. Most of the Middle East hates us because they hate Israel, and we support Israel. Most of the countries there don't like Saudi anyway, Afghanistan is a failed state, so is Iraq...Syria and Libya are breeding grounds for terrorists usin our machinery funds and guns to amass chaos.

Yes that whole region hates us. Get real, and stop with the PC crap narrative



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25 Mar 2015, 3:06 pm

Whathappened wrote:

To say and do these things, knowingly and purposely routing up the family, destroying children's lives and tearing apart western values ..... These people have no morality. Their stated aim as atheists, and some Zionists, is the destruction of peaceful loving Christian families, all in the order of political control.


For the record, it is the atheist Scientists and Technologist that are doing the heavy lifting in our society. The majority of atheists have peaceful loving families. USA is a heavily pro-Xtian nation. Most Presidents of the USA are openly Xtian.

You are describing a war on Xtian families, I say....wtf?!?

Most American Zionists are either Xtian or Jewish....NOT atheists.



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25 Mar 2015, 7:23 pm

It's not JUST a war on Christians. It is a war on culture, our economy, our happiness, our people (Americans and other people and countries). The Zionist/Jewish influence in our country, and across the world uses the same tactics over and over and over again, repeatedly. Because they have the concentrated money, they have power, and influence. They can even influence nations to do things that are bad for their country, because of money and tactics that most people could never imagine.


You're not aware of this because it's been censored from books, lectures, any reading materials whatsoever or media. If you don't believe me; why don't you take some time to investigate this matter for yourself - it will be much better than me telling you like I am.
This is true I swear it on my heart it's the truth.
I would not lie knowingly. This is the truth.
Take the chance that it might just be true; and start looking for information. What do you have to lose, only that you could be wrong?.. but so what. Don't let fear hold you back, especially from the truth. ...

I'm going to come out and say it - I'm sure I'll be censored somehow, but it needs to be said. We need to stop hiding from this.



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26 Mar 2015, 12:26 am

Whathappened wrote:
You're not aware of this because it's been censored from books, lectures, any reading materials whatsoever or media. If you don't believe me; why don't you take some time to investigate this matter for yourself - it will be much better than me telling you like I am.


How can we investigate it if the Evul Jooish Bankstahs have censored it all? In fact, if their reach is so powerful as you literally just said, how did you find all of this out, and why aren't you and everyone else distributing information on the "conspiracy" being carted off to be ground up into matzo?



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26 Mar 2015, 12:39 am

unrestrained capitalism and greed are what's wrong with the US today. your focus on marxism is keeping you in the dark and your masters love you for it.