The Way Society Headed

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Fnord
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18 Mar 2015, 7:01 pm

Just because "everybody believes" thus-and-such does not make it true, so stop blaming others for your poverty and stop wasting your time on conspiracy theories.

:roll: Kids these days ...

techstepgenr8tion
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18 Mar 2015, 7:24 pm

naturalplastic wrote:

Since Alex revamped this Wrong Planet site it has had a curious new feature: that list of 'similar topics' at the bottom of the page (it causes many ancient threads to come to life).

The number one "similiar topic" Alex's computer picked for THIS thead is: "2 headed fish".

The number three topic is "Would You Have Sex With a Three Headed Duck?".

I think that that says it all about the ilk of the central theme of this thread!

Those are some of the cleaner interpretations of how society could be 'headed'.

_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin

trollcatman
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18 Mar 2015, 7:33 pm

Whathappened wrote:

I don't have money. I'm broke. You're right-too I think if you have money here you can do anything. ... Sadly, I don't.

I read somewhere that some conservative think tank wrote Prototype for Obamacare way back in the 90s. Didn't Romney also have Romney care?...

I mean, I do not want to be a conspiracy theorist - ....Who wants to be that? ...no one does. But I do think a select group of people actually do run the world.. I actually thought that that was almost common knowledge. I mean you always hear about it...

There is certainly a tendency of powerful people to try to retain their power, and sometimes power concentrates in the hands of a few people, that has often happened in history as well. I just don't think those people are Marxists or Zionists, they can have any ideology, or no real ideology. I recently heard a reporter from Moscow talk about Russian politicians; first they were commies, then after the fall of the Soviet Union they were all for the new democracy, and now they are nationalists. These are often the same people, they just change their ideology to adapt to the times and to stay in power because they don't care about the ideology.
I think Jewish Zionists are outnumbered by Zionist goyim btw, there are many mainly Protestant Christians for whom the Jews returning to Israel is a big deal in their religion.

Whathappened
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18 Mar 2015, 7:39 pm

Fnord wrote:

Just because "everybody believes" thus-and-such does not make it true, so stop blaming others for your poverty and stop wasting your time on conspiracy theories.

:roll:

Kids these days ...

You are obviously trying to derail this convo again, nice try. Go flame somewhere else with your nonsense. ..

Nowhere did I blame anyone for my 'poverty'.

God, why am I talking to you. Go away please.

ToughDiamond
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18 Mar 2015, 8:58 pm

Everything over here in the UK has become less socialist over the past few decades. Trade union power, healthcare, social housing, State-run utilities and industries, benefits and State pension, all gradually being taken back. The gap between rich and poor has widened. New Labour was a step to the right, and we don't even get them most of the time, we get the Tories who are even further right, currently making us all pay the price of the wealthy bankers' antics, which has cost us thousands per head. Marxism? Where?

The USA isn't seen as a Marxist state over here. If anything, it's seen as slightly more right-wing than the UK.

I agree the world does look as if it's going to the dogs, but not in the way the OP thinks.

I don't know enough about zionism to say much about that, except that I don't see any political changes over here that could have had anything to do with it.

drh1138
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19 Mar 2015, 12:24 am

Whathappened wrote:

I mean, I do not want to be a conspiracy theorist - ....Who wants to be that? ...no one does. But I do think a select group of people actually do run the world..

"I'm not saying that there's a conspiracy, but there's a conspiracy." :roll:

Quote:

I actually thought that that was almost common knowledge. I mean you always hear about it...

No, it's not common knowledge, in fact you only hear about "Jewish Bolshevism" from Nazis and other political fringe extremists. None of what you've presented is verifiable, and you only offer vague and politically-loaded topics to "research" ("Cultural Marxism"? Is that seriously the best you can offer?) alongside obscure videos that we're supposed to spend (waste?) our time watching instead of you doing the courteous and sensible thing and presenting the key points yourself for us to read and dissect.

I think your ideas may find more reception at a place like Stormfront.

Fnord
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19 Mar 2015, 6:40 am

Whathappened wrote:

... Go away please.

No.

Debunking conspiracy theories is a special interest of mine, and you've just proposed at least one that I've debunked before.

The game is afoot!

:twisted:

Whathappened
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19 Mar 2015, 8:21 am

Okay, you mentioned Bolshevism, here's something I can present to you - Jacob Shiff funded the Bolsheviks with 20 million in investments out of Manhattan New York. That is verifiable. If you can't verify that- then you must actively be avoiding reality, or have your head in the sand.

...see here's what you do - you ready? This is really hard- but you have to....open up google: and type in the keywords in the search engine. Bingo. You'll have sources galore. If you tell me I'm a conspiracy theorist for believing Shiff funded Bolsheviks- I'll tell you your insane. It happened, it's well documented. Enough said.

Trying to make me into a Nazi isn't going to work, because I'm obviously not one. Your claims have no merit; I've presented plenty of key points, you just want to go on and on blathering to prove a point or make a statement, of some kind...

This is an Internet forum- I'm not going to write a college thesis on why I think what I think. Get over it. If you're too lazy to type in some key points I've provided on google, then I can't help you. You're lazy or just willfully ignorant - probably the latter.

I've woken up and realized that anything that I present, no matter how verifiable it is, how many facts etc. Will just be labeled and dismissed as "conspiracy" when it's not to the liking of some people, or doesn't fit In line with how they want to see the world and historical events- which, kind of gets in the way of learning about real history, don't cha' think? So why waste my time? I think I'm done with this thread. Have a good one. Cheers : )

Janissy
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19 Mar 2015, 8:59 am

Whathappened wrote:

I hadn't heard of the guy so I went to wikipedia- which is not the last word on everything but does give a reasonable overview.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Schiff

He did give a famous large loan.

Quote:

What was perhaps Schiff's most famous financial action was during the Russo-Japanese War, in 1904 and 1905. Schiff met Takahashi Korekiyo, deputy governor of the Bank of Japan, in Paris in April 1904. He subsequently extended loans to the Empire of Japan in the amount of $200 million, through Kuhn, Loeb & Co.[5] These loans were the first major flotation of Japanese bonds on Wall Street, and provided approximately half the funds needed for Japan's war effort.[9] Schiff made this loan partly because he believed that gold was not as important as national effort and desire in winning a war, and due to the apparent underdog status of Japan at the time; no European nation had yet been defeated by a non-European nation in a modern, full-scale war. It is quite likely Schiff also saw this loan as a means of answering, on behalf of the Jewish people, the anti-Semitic actions of the Russian Empire, specifically the then-recent Kishinev pogrom.

This loan attracted worldwide attention, and had major consequences. Japan won the war, thanks in large part to the purchase of munitions made possible by Schiff's loan. Some of the Japanese leadership saw this as evidence of the power of Jews all around the world, raised the issue of Jewish loyalties in the Diaspora and as proof of the truth of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In 1905, Japan awarded Schiff the Order of the Sacred Treasure;[10] and in 1907, the Order of the Rising Sun, Gold and Silver Star, the second highest of the eight classes of that Order.[11] Schiff was the first foreigner to receive the Order in person from Emperor Meiji in the Imperial Palace.[12] Schiff also had a private audience with King Edward VII of the United Kingdom in 1904.

I guess this speaks to what DentArthurDent was saying in another thread that debate can make you step up your game in researching things that you otherwise wouldn't have.

Anyway, Schiff seemed to be working on the idea that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'. His enemy was the Russian Empire because it suppressed Jews. Does this mean that he therefore funded the Bolsheviks? It doesn't look like it. He apparently had high hopes for the Russian revolution (going by the wiki page and hyperlinks therein) but anti-semitism seems to have run strong in Russia with or without the tsars.

He did give a ton of money to Jewish groups within the U.S, but also to strikingly non-Jewish groups such as the Boy Scouts and Red Cross. Basically the man threw money at literally every cause that seemed non-evil to him. Yay philanthropy!

Quote:

I've woken up and realized that anything that I present, no matter how verifiable it is, how many facts etc. Will just be labeled and dismissed as "conspiracy" when it's not to the liking of some people, or doesn't fit In line with how they want to see the world and historical events- which, kind of gets in the way of learning about real history, don't cha' think? So why waste my time? I think I'm done with this thread. Have a good one. Cheers : )

I presented my source (wikipedia). How about you present yours? That way I know where you're getting your information from. Just saying "type it in google" doesn't cut it because, well, I did. And wikipedia is what I got but clearly not what you are working off of.

kraftiekortie
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19 Mar 2015, 9:03 am

Anti-Semitism ran VERY strong in Russia under the Tsars.

Read up on the term "Pogrom."

Yeah...those Jews who were hacked to death by Cossacks were really ruling the world!

Fnord
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19 Mar 2015, 9:27 am

It seems that others have developed their own debunking skills to an effective level.

The Age of Critical Thinking is upon us!

:cheers:

naturalplastic
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19 Mar 2015, 9:37 am

Janissy wrote:

Whathappened wrote:

Quote:

Well...there you have it!

The Red Cross, and the Boy Scouts, are all part of the same evil Jewish conspiracy as the Bolsheviks!

And the current Pope is probably a Jew too!

And we all KNOW that Obama is a Nazi, and a tool of the world Zionist conspiracy, who wants to impose Sharia Law, and to promote same sex marriage!

Fnord
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19 Mar 2015, 9:59 am

Just because WP was established to support people with Autism Soectrum Disorders does NOT mean that members can not disagree with any crackpot conspiracy theories being presented here.

Disagreeing with what are obviously misguided opinions does not constitute 'bullying' or other personal attack, either.

And "Look it up, it's all there" is neither provenential nor evidentiary.

Whathappened
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20 Mar 2015, 6:33 pm

Aaron Russo talks about central bankers, etc. And "one world government".

Fnord
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20 Mar 2015, 7:55 pm

Aaron Russo was a music manager, film producer, conspiracy theorist, Libertarian politician and activist. He has also been dead for over 7 years. His last film was produced in 2006. His relevancy has waned considerably, since Mr. Obama was elected after Mr. Russo had died, and a lot has happened since then.

LoveNotHate
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20 Mar 2015, 8:28 pm

Whathappened wrote:

I don't have money. I'm broke. You're right-too I think if you have money here you can do anything. ... Sadly, I don't.

is that why you are drawn to persecutory conspiracies ?
invisible hands are oppressing you ?

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