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DentArthurDent
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20 May 2015, 6:13 am

David as I have stated many times before your approach to science is more in line with the Natural Philosophers like Aristotle. For them, and yourself, logic rather than experiment is the trump card in gaining knowledge. To you, life spontaneously arising and the evolution that followed, makes no logical sense, so therefore it matters not what evidence supporting these hypotheses and scientific theories is presented, it must be wrong. You have said as much on several occasions. Well david you can debate all you like how many teeth a horse has, we will simply take a look and count them. I have just returned from the UK where amongst other things I visited the Natural History and Science Museums. Apart from the awe of seeing so many examples from the fossil record, and the story of human knowledge and invention, I was also awed by the monumental amount of stupidity and ignorance it must take to deny all this.


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20 May 2015, 8:45 am

There is a time in my life, as a straight A student, graduating 11 out of a class of 381; going on to graduate with three college degrees, one in Health Science, one in Anthropology, and one in Social Sciences Interdisciplinary, and graduate school in social sciences; before working three part time jobs putting myself through college necessitates the economic reality of finding a real job, and moving through a government career to upper federal pay grade level of service; that I 'think' my type of knowledge is somehow superior to those who surround me.

It takes me almost five decades to come to realize how wrong I am to believe that crystalized knowledge and the mechanical ways of cognition to obtain that knowledge, while useful, is not nearly as important, in this thing called social mammal cooperative life; as either the merits or rewards of social cognition, which includes all ways of living with human empathy, both cognitive and affective; as well as all things human related to imagination and creativity; as well as all things related to human being, by way of physical intelligence, including regulating emotion; integrating senses; and gaining greater REAL cognitive executive functioning through greater focus, short term working memory; as well as the expanding of the science recognized sixth sense now of proprioception, where one not only sees the environment but feels it throughout the body, in mind and body balance.

The truth of the matter is, our culture through the interjection of mechanical cognition leaning activities, served up on a full cultural plate almost from birth; rather than the social cooperation that grows a human as being in flesh and blood human interaction with a tree of imagination and creativity growing through an environment of little as opposed to overload of senses in TV and other electronic ways of input of human; rather than output of human in kind and loving social cooperative ways, as humans truly are naturally evolved to live is creating an epigenetically cultural environment produced being that is less human, more and more as time goes by.

And yes, science shows this is becoming truth in at least some empirical ways of measures of empathy of college students, with empathy dropping off at around 30% over the course of the last several decades. And then there are studies that show that the average attention span of human beings is at around that of a gold fish; that means the chances of anyone reading this well thought out and deep analysis here of mine, and actually getting this far, is closer to Zero than 10 percent, among the average reader, with the attention of a gold fish, in shallow waters of thinking.

The 'Twitter World' is a sad one, a world of snippets of related information here and there. The ability to free associate many topics of deep information and consolidate that into one tapestry of deeper ways of expression is an art I refuse to leave behind, in a culture that is growing shallower and shallower as we speak.

While it is nice to be able to spit back facts and not much of anything else;

That's not human life; any computer can do that.

Human life is the art of connecting to other humans being as evolved for social cooperation in flesh and blood ways, where non-verbal communication is the core of reciprocal social communication as evolved for all social animals, including human beings anywhere from 60 to 90% of total effective reciprocal social communication.

And Art is the way human beings have always expressed the existential comfort of understanding they are one with other humans and the rest of nature, flowing with it, and not a static object separated from it, in illusory lies of both general culture and Abrahamic religions understood as science, rather than metaphors of free verse poetry in both the new revised Bibles and the Koran.

The height of human ignorance is no longer functioning as a human being.

The height of human ignorance is a society looking for a quick fix pill and diagnosis of one over-reaching label like Autism to explain away a culture gone insane, overall, in mechanical over social cognition ways of learning in negative epigenetic impact making humans more machines than caring, yes, unconditionally loving creatures, as evolved as such when in mind and body balance with nature.

So yes, one thing about my college experience, where I truly excel, is my innate understanding that something really horrible that I cannot quite put my finger on is going in my life; a stop of plans to go into a more lucrative major of money making power, to attempt to find out why the lives of my much 'poorer' peers in terms of a standard IQ like mine of over 130, live so freely, easily and happily; while my life is so frigging complicated and empty as compared to theirs.

Yes, those majors of health science, anthropology, and social sciences interdisciplinary will eventually be in part, and art, what saves my life, to return from a robot life, back to what I am simply evolved, for, as human being, in mind and body balanced way with flesh and blood humans and the rest of Mother Nature aka GOD.

So yes, in my case at least, the height of human ignorance is turning into an Autistic person as mechanical cognition leaning robot; rather than a highly evolved social mammal with excelling ability to connect to other flesh and blood human beings, and truly thrive in unconditional love life.

Really, more or less, this is truly what all enlightened and awakened philosophers, who escape cultural ways of mechanical cognition in lies of robot ways of life are trying to tell their counterparts in history.

But from my experience when one lives in that 'other place' of what truly can be literal human hell, as compared to 'NORMAL' touchy feely life of human being in love with both other humans and nature as whole; that is REAL ignorance; and whether or not Mr. Oldavid understand the P's and Q's of evolution; the greatest loss of human intelligence is in emotional intelligence everywhere we look in life, for those of us with new age old age eyes of evolution to even see it.

This emotional intelligence is fluid intelligence, an intelligence much greater, overall, for human survival, as classically evolved; compared to crystallized intelligence that is largely a byproduct of written abstract recorded language; collective intelligence; and complex cultures; that as we speak are having the negative epigenetic effect and AFFECT in just one life-time to make otherwise normally evolving human being into social lacking mechanical cognition robots; and in at least some cases, this thing called Autism is a direct result of culture in negative epigenetic impact, rather than an innately produced issue as human being is born to be.


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20 May 2015, 5:34 pm

I knew you weren't completely daft, Ghogsy. You make some good AFFECTIVE sense when you're not shouting.

However, confining yourself to that dimension denies the intellectual dimension the capacity to achieve its end. The purpose of the intellect is to perceive truth (as in cold, hard reality). You started off badly in that pursuit. Health science, Anthropology and Social Science are waffly, political conveniences that change more often than, and as, you change your clothes to suit the occasion.



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20 May 2015, 5:57 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
David as I have stated many times before your approach to science is more in line with the Natural Philosophers like Aristotle. For them, and yourself, logic rather than experiment is the trump card in gaining knowledge. To you, life spontaneously arising and the evolution that followed, makes no logical sense, so therefore it matters not what evidence supporting these hypotheses and scientific theories is presented, it must be wrong. You have said as much on several occasions. Well david you can debate all you like how many teeth a horse has, we will simply take a look and count them. I have just returned from the UK where amongst other things I visited the Natural History and Science Museums. Apart from the awe of seeing so many examples from the fossil record, and the story of human knowledge and invention, I was also awed by the monumental amount of stupidity and ignorance it must take to deny all this.
Yair, well, your ideology is neither logically nor experimentally justifiable. There is no "evidence supporting these hypotheses and scientific theories". The existence of fossils only indicates that some plants and animals, not known to exist today, were buried in tidal waves of mud. That does not imply, logically or experimentally, that life can, or does, spontaneously arise from inanimate slime and spontaneously develop into the likes of you.

Natural History and Science Museums are, I suppose, "proof" that "Things CAN go better with Coke".

Your "science", Arty, has nothing at all to do with either logic or experiment.



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20 May 2015, 6:08 pm

Oldavid wrote:
I knew you weren't completely daft, Ghogsy. You make some good AFFECTIVE sense when you're not shouting.

However, confining yourself to that dimension denies the intellectual dimension the capacity to achieve its end. The purpose of the intellect is to perceive truth (as in cold, hard reality). You started off badly in that pursuit. Health science, Anthropology and Social Science are waffly, political conveniences that change more often than, and as, you change your clothes to suit the occasion.


Ha! I don't agree. But that's okay; different strokes and all of that..:)


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20 May 2015, 6:35 pm

Am called away; and back for additional info; with the untimely edit
function out of tow..;)

Ha! I don't agree. But that's okay; different strokes and all of that..:)

Humans create their reality as they go; as clearly indicated in science; and that's
a fact my friend; that you may not be aware of; but never the less, it IS Scientific
method derived FACT. Perhaps, you have some reading to do.

If you like I can provide scores of links in research that prove my point;
without doubt. But somehow, I do not think you will read them.
And that my friend comes from my advanced form of cognitive
empathy, with smiles and winks, as well..:)

Seriously, if you see something you know is not there, like
something out of the corner of your eye; on a sleepy
night on a dark road; that should be evidence enough
that what you perceive as reality, is not close to
whatever objective reality, if any objective
quantum reality, actually
exists.

That's just common sense;
Humans have been getting by creating
their own best reality for survival for
much longer than text has been available
to suggest they
do
not.

The truth lives in
flesh and blood.

Text often lies;
wittingly or NOT.


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DentArthurDent
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20 May 2015, 6:48 pm

Oldavid wrote:
Your "science", Arty, has nothing at all to do with either logic or experiment.


Of course not Davy, you just keep telling yourself that. :roll:


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20 May 2015, 11:51 pm

aghogday wrote:
Humans create their reality as they go;
You prove my point.

Reality is what it is and completely independent of anyone's emotional or ideological fancies.



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20 May 2015, 11:56 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Oldavid wrote:
Your "science", Arty, has nothing at all to do with either logic or experiment.


Of course not Davy, you just keep telling yourself that. :roll:
Logic and experiment says it is so. I don't need to tell myself anything.



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21 May 2015, 1:41 am

Oldavid wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Humans create their reality as they go;
You prove my point.

Reality is what it is and completely independent of anyone's emotional or ideological fancies.


NO.

Humans experience emotions and senses and that is all that is truly REAL about human being.

All the rest, is just abstract concepts AKA illusion my friend, in 'thought balloons',
without the sensory or emotional experience of human being.

To live fully, is to feel THIS.

To know this alone, without
feeling this, is death in life;
same stuff Jesus speaks to;
same stuff Buddha speaks to;
same stuff Lao Tzu
speaks too.
I dance and speak
IT two, too; and
that my friend,
makes me the
truly advanced
one..;:)
relatively
speaking, in
metaphor of course..:;)


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21 May 2015, 1:45 am

DentArthurDent wrote:
Oldavid wrote:
Your "science", Arty, has nothing at all to do with either logic or experiment.


Of course not Davy, you just keep telling yourself that. :roll:
Hes too busy delving into alchemy, astrology and magic spells!


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21 May 2015, 8:24 am

It's truly interesting to see folks go to extreme measures to objectify reality as separate from their human experience AKA frigging LIFE.

And in doing so, they never truly learn to master their emotions; senses; focus; short term working memory; and so much more that is truly necessary to even enjoy one moment of life fully without senses and emotions associated with human existential angst also known as general anxiety and related general depression.

You know my friend, I have zero anxiety; I have bliss all the time; and it is actually observed as such by professional clinical analysis.

In fact there is a term for it named as hypomania; but in my case this bliss is totally controlled and measured by diagnosing professionals as consistent for almost 2 years now.

But here's the thing; this bliss is an going work of human mastery over emotions, senses, focus, and short term working memory in the present of now. Now is all that exists in human reality; correct.. well it can be, as truly now is reality and all that is same as GOD; however, most folks through neocortical brain, live in an abstract constructed illusion with 'thought balloons'; that keeps them out of the present; that most animals without this level of neocortical placement in the past and future, in a manufactured reality of literal hell, do not have to spend most of their life in a state of constant anxiety and fear over, and associated depression; never even living one moment with true peace of mind, as is the case with many human beings, by their own admission.

And the more complex society gets with more variables to worry about, the tourniquet of chronic stress gets tighter and tighter, until it leads to an ultimate early demise of human life, as science shows now, as fact, as well.

If I rely on the prognosis of medical doctors that I will never get well from a catastrophic synergy mix of 19 life threatening illnesses, and agree with them that there is nothing that can be done for me to improve my life, as is, by terms of medical science, then my fate is sealed friend, for the rest of my life in tortuous constant waking painful illness, beyond most people's imagination, specifically, per the type two Trigeminal Neuralgia I am 'blessed' with for over 5 years.

And Ha! when I am much younger and if I believe the prognosis of peers that I will never be strong, be a 'man', find love or be financially successful in life; that will be the fate I seal for myself, as well.

The power of human faith, hope and belief in the synergy of these human emotions as human relative free will is mighty powerful stuff, my friend, when utilized to become a real life 'superman'.

I learned along time ago; that the answers lie within our innate instinctual and intuitive minds of emotions and senses; without the interference of the naysayers of life; who heard it through the grapevine; or medical doctors that tell me I am basically screwed.

I thrive, 'cause I learn to master my human emotions, senses, focus, and short term memory that allows me to excel in all things associated with cognitive executive functioning, and overall physical functioning in life.

And that my friend is what life is all about. Thriving in the moment is what is important; not some silly argument over who gets the correct crystalized intelligence fact, as slightly more correct or less correct.

When a person focuses within and develops the relative free will to master life on a moment to moment practice of bliss; that's where reality truly tells the truth or lies for human being in this thing called human being life.

Most all headaches are caused by tension of a mind and body out of balance, where emotional distress in the body becomes tightening of muscles rather than balance of emotions.

The answer to most headaches, stomach aches, and all other chronic somatic pain that most people take over the counter or prescription drugs for, rising to around 50 percent of the population in the U.S., is truly a simple one; and that is the one of mastering human relative free will in mind and body balance through much greater potential physical intelligence.

It is also recognized by science as possible to control one's body temperature and brain waves through bio-feedback and I do the same, with greater potential physical intelligence, where I am more wild than domesticated now in animal homeostasis, my friend.

Eastern philosophies understand this practice of greater human intelligence through the physical intelligence of mind and body in balance for thousands of years.

The reason most disease is illusion, is most disease is chronic stress related, and with a practice of the physical intelligence of mind and body balance in regulating emotions, senses, focus, short term working memory, brain waves, temperature regulation, and overall human happiness with the power of the mind and body in balance, this same majority of potential human causal factors for disease, as chronic stress, is almost completely conquerable with greater physical intelligence in mind and body balance.

So medical science doesn't have an answer why I am fearless; happy all the time; dance walk 3596 miles in 21 months; have incredible strength as evidenced here time and time again, leg pressing 930 LBS, easily, 14 times; why I easily connect to the opposite sex with women decades younger than me to the tune of hundreds, as evidenced here time and time again; why I wear shorts in 18 degree weather; and all the other stuff that makes me into a real life metaphor of 'Superman', in terms of the 'new age' definition of that by 'Nietzsche' and others.

But guess what, I have both the answers and the documented evidence, on a case-study basis of course; as truly I am the only person recognized to do much of the stuff I do in 'real life' now.

I am a non-repeatable experiment friend.

And that means that only I can explain the reality of the life that is me.

If I did not do it; there is no way it could be done by scientists, alone.

But I believe that I am just a human being; and anyone else who strives the
way I do to have an amazing life, with human relative free will can do the same.

That's the good news for the believers my friend.

But for the folks here who wanna stay in depressed and anxiety land;
that is the choice they make with their own relative free will; with
or without the positive or negative assistance from others.

This place is a little like 'hell', as far as the inhabitants own
reports go. And yes, in terms of human life
hell is truly the 'Wrong Planet'
and not a normal
part
of animal life
in simple homeostasis.

People spend all day arguing over negative
crap and never even truly live a moment
of what LIFE REALLY can be,
if they just set their
mind and body
balance to
Just DO It,
my friend.

And that is the saddest of all
realities I recognize in the faces
at Super-Walmart, and all the
emotionless and uninspiring
words here in 'Hell' aka
the 'Wrong Planet',
in metaphor
of course.

And yes,
this is perhaps
the most challenging
place in the world to help
folks who insist they do not
need their own help to get over
their issues in life, as it can be
miles and miles better
on the 'right planet'
as is for just
right
now.

No human controls my life
but me. There are literally
thousands of people here
who believe that other
folks are the cause
of their problems.

That too, can be a
self-fulfilling prophecy
for sure, as I for one can
get along with almost anyone
in 'real life' now. It is only ever
an illusion before that I cannot.

And truly no reason, why it may not
be the same answer for many folks here,
to have an amazing life all the time now,

as amazingly well human being with the

PRESENT Life
of now.


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21 May 2015, 9:36 am

Fred,

What you describe here seems very much like something called Mindfulness. It was recommended to me by a doctor at our University Hospital. It is apparently now accepted into the mainstream of medical practise. So, OK, I accept my weaknesses and I'm working on it. The doctor tells me I have to find the answers within myself and I am happy with that. I'm getting better.

Mike



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21 May 2015, 10:41 am

Grebels wrote:
Fred,

What you describe here seems very much like something called Mindfulness. It was recommended to me by a doctor at our University Hospital. It is apparently now accepted into the mainstream of medical practise. So, OK, I accept my weaknesses and I'm working on it. The doctor tells me I have to find the answers within myself and I am happy with that. I'm getting better.

Mike


That's so wonderful, that your medical doctors where you live suggest practices of mindfulness as a cure for illness. And truly you must live in a much more advanced medical culture than we do here in the U.S, in terms of human well being.

A visit to a general practitioner here in the U.S., with a complaint of chronic headaches will usually result in the prescription, of a choice, in a laundry list of psychotropic drugs to attempt to treat symptoms, instead of addressing the causal issue of the number one killer that is chronic human stress, per almost constant fight or flight anxiety about so many imagined possibilities of bad stuff happening in either the past or future; along with impossible demands of a creature that is NOT evolved to multi-task social cognition activities with mechanical cognition activities, per example as 'simple', as the McDonalds Cashier operating a cash register expected to give human connecting customer service with a great big smile.

An additional problem though, is, many folks 'think' that mind and body balance in mindful awareness is sitting still saying a prescribed mantra, or specific lessons of movement in TAI CHI to achieve a state of mindfulness in mind and body balance. While it will eventually work when folks actually STOP thinking about what they are doing in practice, an even better and quicker way to achieve mind and body balance is to do it all innately, instinctually, and intuitively.

Problem tHere is, folks believe that everything in life must come with a prescription of lessons, guidelines, and instructions, as that is the way they are led to believe in a life of spoon fed culture, in instructions.

To learn how to be human is to do it by innate instinct and intuition; same as other animals not trapped under the guise of abstract complex written language, collective recorded intelligence, and the STRICT sidewalks of walking, in straight lines culture.

To look above is to see the truth, so below. And with science we have the ability to see the Golden Spiral PHI Flow in galaxies, as well as nautilus shells, orbits of planets around respective suns, sun flowers, fetuses, and the curled cat resting in bliss for 16 hours or so a day.

To move like a galaxy in golden spiral flow, is the natural way humans are evolved to move, like other mammals to capture prey and escape predator. To do it in public today, can be considered delightful or insane.

But trust me, I do not do drugs and neither does 'Tove Lo', as stunning visual artistic representation of this Universal truth of human being in golden spiral flow of 'invisible' movement in total mind and body balance awareness in proprioception, emotional regulation, sensory integration; and greater focus and short term working memory, to make real supermen and superwomen of the ancestors of our past come truth again.

The old age is the new age way of human bliss.

The truth is only forgotten.

And modern humans devolve negatively epigenetically,
who become guised with blinds of culture to miss
the truth of what it even means to be human being.

Chronic negative stress is the illusion of culture.

The same heaven in now; nirvana and bliss; that the real historical Gnostic Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, and mythological Krishna speak to as the Holy Spirit, CHI, KI, TAO, DAO, QI, Atman, and American Indian Great Spirit are the same basic animal truth of homeostasis, and true power as unconditional love', for survival, as mind and body balancing human being living in harmony and peace with other human beings and the rest of Nature aka GOD.

And to be clear, unconditional love is tough love too, as nature (GOD) dictates time and time again.

I just get it sorted out, for amazing results.

To believe it and just do it; can be to get similar
bliss.

I explain this in hundreds of ways to reach an
audience of over a million folks so far, documented
as such in empirical evidence, from ballet and martial
arts mind and body balancing dance of 3596 miles, in
21 months; to amazing strength training feats of foot, up
to 930 LBS of leg pressing power; to epic free verse poetry
ranging from one line or two lines of Haiku to 11,135 words,
as the record of one sitting so far, and over 70 thousand
synchronistic photos in the art of free verse dance
photography, as well, to dance a life
in always Now, Free Verse Poetic
expression of Tough
Unconditional
Love As
Is
for
NOW.


And
I am only
just beginning a
Now, of doing much,
much
more..:)


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21 May 2015, 12:10 pm


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21 May 2015, 5:28 pm

All based on the impossible assumption that life can, and does, spontaneously create itself out of random disorganised matter.