Should there be a law against public institutions that lie f

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Janissy
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27 Jul 2015, 12:03 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.


I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.

Regards
DL


How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?


So you follow the golden rule only when it is simple to do so.

To bow out of your social duty to your fellow man when things get tough is a sign of a weak character.

Regards



You say social duty. I say oppressive nanny state.

I am somewhat hypocritical since I do support nanny state legislation that protects people from their own stupidity that could get them killed- such as seat belt laws. But you have to draw the line somewhere. I draw it well before outlawing people from buying (literally, with donations) into ideas I don't agree with. As long as the money is paying for exactly what the charity/church says it is paying for, stopping that would be an absurd overstep.

There are no doubt things that I do that somebody out there thinks are stupid things to do/pay for. If somebody thinks that something I do is stupid (or that you do!!), is it their duty to put a stop to that?

I pay more (a lot more) for grass fed beef. Even though the farm it comes from is a short drive my house, it still costs more than grain fed beef from a larger farm. It's a small farm and the people running it can't do a volume business . You could even call it a boutique farm. Judging from the people also there to buy, the customer base is middle class health nuts willing to pay double for grass fed. There are plenty of people who consider that stupid. Should this producer/consumer exchange be shut down to protect us from what some consider the stupidity of paying double for the same amount of beef?



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27 Jul 2015, 12:35 pm

One's Religious-Beliefs should never become an actual Law.
Then again The Laws are Religious-Beliefs.

They got their own Scribes (i.e.: Law-Makers) who write Verses (i.e.: Legislation & Policies) into their Un-Holy Bibles (i.e.: Law-Books), backed by their Supreme-Being (i.e.: Government), who even go so far as to Ex-Communicate (i.e.: Sentencing & Incarceration) you from Society for the Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that you have committed against its Scriptures (i.e.: Religious-Observance to Legal-Policies), full of Inquisitions (i.e.: Court-Trials) where they want you to confess to your Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that are only offensive to Text on Paper (i.e.: their bible) even though you may have done nothing that brings any actual harm/injury/suffering/damage to person or property, and they are full of Witch-Hunters (i.e.: Police who engage in activities upon others that can only be described as Criminal along with the supporters of such Police-Brutality & Corruption).


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28 Jul 2015, 10:31 am

Janissy wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.
No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.


I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.

Regards
DL


How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?


So you follow the golden rule only when it is simple to do so.

To bow out of your social duty to your fellow man when things get tough is a sign of a weak character.

Regards



You say social duty. I say oppressive nanny state.

I am somewhat hypocritical since I do support nanny state legislation that protects people from their own stupidity that could get them killed- such as seat belt laws. But you have to draw the line somewhere. I draw it well before outlawing people from buying (literally, with donations) into ideas I don't agree with. As long as the money is paying for exactly what the charity/church says it is paying for, stopping that would be an absurd overstep.

There are no doubt things that I do that somebody out there thinks are stupid things to do/pay for. If somebody thinks that something I do is stupid (or that you do!!), is it their duty to put a stop to that?

I pay more (a lot more) for grass fed beef. Even though the farm it comes from is a short drive my house, it still costs more than grain fed beef from a larger farm. It's a small farm and the people running it can't do a volume business . You could even call it a boutique farm. Judging from the people also there to buy, the customer base is middle class health nuts willing to pay double for grass fed. There are plenty of people who consider that stupid. Should this producer/consumer exchange be shut down to protect us from what some consider the stupidity of paying double for the same amount of beef?


The issue is liars taking advantage of the gullible.

Your beef farmer is giving you beef. Not lies about what he gives you being beef while just giving you beef manure.

Regards
DL



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28 Jul 2015, 10:34 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
One's Religious-Beliefs should never become an actual Law.
Then again The Laws are Religious-Beliefs.

They got their own Scribes (i.e.: Law-Makers) who write Verses (i.e.: Legislation & Policies) into their Un-Holy Bibles (i.e.: Law-Books), backed by their Supreme-Being (i.e.: Government), who even go so far as to Ex-Communicate (i.e.: Sentencing & Incarceration) you from Society for the Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that you have committed against its Scriptures (i.e.: Religious-Observance to Legal-Policies), full of Inquisitions (i.e.: Court-Trials) where they want you to confess to your Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that are only offensive to Text on Paper (i.e.: their bible) even though you may have done nothing that brings any actual harm/injury/suffering/damage to person or property, and they are full of Witch-Hunters (i.e.: Police who engage in activities upon others that can only be described as Criminal along with the supporters of such Police-Brutality & Corruption).



What would you replace the state with? Anarchy?

Anything less is someone writing laws and enforcing them.

Regards
DL



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28 Jul 2015, 10:42 am

Fnord wrote:
Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Raptor wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted. No, I don't believe in passing laws to protect people who are bound to f**k themselves from f*****g themselves.
I see that you follow the golden rule. Not.
How, by not wanting to pass complex legislation to protect the stupid from thier own stupidity?
So you follow the golden rule only when it is simple to do so. To bow out of your social duty to your fellow man when things get tough is a sign of a weak character.
Yeah, I'm really awful aint I? Whatev
Careful there, Rappy! You've just been judge by One Who Is Holier Than Thou! Any moment now, you should be feeling an immense weight of guilt and shame, followed by a desperate urge to repent.

Any moment now ...

Any moment now ...

Will you hurry up?

:wink:


I'm guessing GnosticBishop doesnt yet know that I'm a conservative and therefor a sociopath incapable of remorse. :P


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28 Jul 2015, 11:48 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
One's Religious-Beliefs should never become an actual Law.
Then again The Laws are Religious-Beliefs.

They got their own Scribes (i.e.: Law-Makers) who write Verses (i.e.: Legislation & Policies) into their Un-Holy Bibles (i.e.: Law-Books), backed by their Supreme-Being (i.e.: Government), who even go so far as to Ex-Communicate (i.e.: Sentencing & Incarceration) you from Society for the Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that you have committed against its Scriptures (i.e.: Religious-Observance to Legal-Policies), full of Inquisitions (i.e.: Court-Trials) where they want you to confess to your Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that are only offensive to Text on Paper (i.e.: their bible) even though you may have done nothing that brings any actual harm/injury/suffering/damage to person or property, and they are full of Witch-Hunters (i.e.: Police who engage in activities upon others that can only be described as Criminal along with the supporters of such Police-Brutality & Corruption).

[]


Just a quick question for you.

I just picked this up and wondered how you would handle the present and upcoming immigration problems without the present governments in place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... aaxSoyK2nI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX73ggsMNEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbtLktBdf4Q

Regards
DL



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28 Jul 2015, 12:56 pm

Janissy wrote:
I pay more (a lot more) for grass fed beef. Even though the farm it comes from is a short drive my house, it still costs more than grain fed beef from a larger farm. It's a small farm and the people running it can't do a volume business . You could even call it a boutique farm. Judging from the people also there to buy, the customer base is middle class health nuts willing to pay double for grass fed. There are plenty of people who consider that stupid. Should this producer/consumer exchange be shut down to protect us from what some consider the stupidity of paying double for the same amount of beef?


GnosticBishop wrote:
The issue is liars taking advantage of the gullible.

Your beef farmer is giving you beef. Not lies about what he gives you being beef while just giving you beef manure.

Regards
DL


The issue is not liars taking advantage of the gullible. It is purely your opinion that priests/pastors etc. are lying to their congregation. If they believe what they are saying, it is by definition not a lie. I am an atheist. I do not agree with their beliefs. This does not mean they are lying. It also does not mean that the people in the congregation are gullible. People who have different beliefs from you are not gullible for believing things you do not. I am not a gnostic. I am an atheist. But I'm not going to call you gullible for believing in....whatever gnostics believe (despite many posts from many people I'm not definately sure). It's just a difference.

Thus the point of my post you quoted about the beef farmer with high prices (which I think are justified). The farmer isn't lying to me. But there are people who think that boutique farmers are lying when they imply (or don't disagree with) the claim that their grass feed beef is healthier than what I could get for much cheaper if I stuck to industrial-scale farmed beef. And that I am gullible for paying more to this boutique farmer. Should I be legally protected from what some people think is my gullibility and some people think are his (and similar farmers) lies? {disclaimer: I have encountered people who think I'm gullible and the health claim is bs but none have suggested legal changes}

You are doing precisely that. You are claiming that beliefs different from your own are lies and that the people who believe them are gullible rather than simply following a religion you don't.



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28 Jul 2015, 1:27 pm

I am surprised that you, a « Gnostic-Christian », even pose this as a question.

GnosticBishop wrote:
Ban-Dodger wrote:
One's Religious-Beliefs should never become an actual Law.
Then again The Laws are Religious-Beliefs.

They got their own Scribes (i.e.: Law-Makers) who write Verses (i.e.: Legislation & Policies) into their Un-Holy Bibles (i.e.: Law-Books), backed by their Supreme-Being (i.e.: Government), who even go so far as to Ex-Communicate (i.e.: Sentencing & Incarceration) you from Society for the Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that you have committed against its Scriptures (i.e.: Religious-Observance to Legal-Policies), full of Inquisitions (i.e.: Court-Trials) where they want you to confess to your Sins (i.e.: Crimes) that are only offensive to Text on Paper (i.e.: their bible) even though you may have done nothing that brings any actual harm/injury/suffering/damage to person or property, and they are full of Witch-Hunters (i.e.: Police who engage in activities upon others that can only be described as Criminal along with the supporters of such Police-Brutality & Corruption).

[]


Just a quick question for you.

I just picked this up and wondered how you would handle the present and upcoming immigration problems without the present governments in place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... aaxSoyK2nI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX73ggsMNEI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbtLktBdf4Q

Regards
DL

All I am going to tell you at the moment is that borders never should have been raised in the first instance.

For a mere mortal to think that he owns a whole entire continent solely due to some « Pagan-Ritual » involving sticking a pole into the ground, with a piece of cloth attached at its top, and calling it a flag, demonstrates extreme arrogance, especially when they also decide that they own all of the land's populations, all of the fish in its seas, all of the fauna in its forests, all of the air that everyone breathes, when you, a « Gnostic-Christian », should know that « God » owns it all.

The Africans in the 2nd video are also most-certainly in the wrong in their activities, but the fact of the matter is that destructive-behaviours are found everywhere, and many compilations can be made to show any group as being barbaric (see « Police-Brutality Compilation » videos & often the Blacks/Hispanics are often the ones attacked/targeted).

I suspect that Southern-Italy probably also has a lot of punishment-oriented legislation. From my observations with statistical-crimes, the nature of the types of punishments dished out in certain locations determines the types of crimes that will be or become prevalent in said location, for example, places that do lots of impounding of everyone's cars will experience a high rate of thievery (because impounding itself is thievery), murders tend to be more prevalent in locations that are full of Capital-Punishment, kidnappings & holding of hostages become more common-place where imprisonment is frequent (I know most people are unfamiliar with « under-ground » criminal-activity but « missing persons » are actually quite a gigantic list within the United States where its prison-populations are higher than anywhere else on the entire planet including more people in prison than all of the communist-countries combined... many of these missing persons captured & held hostage or in captivity as slaves whether as sex-slaves or child-labour), the nature of the punishments simply invites the types of crimes that will become prevalent.

Most people who've read any number of my posts related to these topics should know by now that I regard there to exist an invisible « Justice-System » that is always in operation at all times where basically « You Will Experience Everything That You or Your Servants Cause Others to Experience » (a kind of a « Golden-Rule » with which all « Reap What They Sow » eventually... some might call it a Karmic-System [of Justice]). Therefore, I would simply inform the populations about said « Karmic-Reality » and oriented places that want a peaceful existence to themselves be peaceful, and not hell-bent on punishing everyone for everything, for purposes of negating the « karmic-effects » that we see happening. This is certainly not any « immediate » solution but, over time, I do know factually that it works pretty damn well to keep problems from arising, and if the populations choose to ignore the « Prophetic-Warnings » that I describe, then it is that population's own problem for not heeding the warnings that would have otherwise eventually negated the severity of eventual-consequences.

Present governments are inadequate to be able to deal with genuine problems (whilst present governments simultaneously create many unnecessary problems). This is largely due to the amount of incompetence that exists within present governments (although this is technically by sinister criminal-minded design... some might call the master-mind behind all of this Satan, Shetani, Baal, Shiva, although there are others who might use terms like Illuminati, Bilderbergs, Rothschilds, etc). Ideally, when trouble-makers are causing problems, they can be apprehended peacefully and brought into rehabilitation-centres for a day, educating them as to the reality that any harm that they do upon others will eventually return unto themselves, and if they are too violent to be able to apprehend peacefully, then it would be necessary to let them calm down before approaching (assuming that a « tranquiliser-approach » will not happen), and for severe cases like murderers, they need to be kept in a peaceful rehabilitation-centre for a maximum of up to six months with daily mandatory attendance on being peaceful with others & its importance, followed by release. Most cases involving criminal-activity (and I mean actual criminal-activity that has caused some sort of harm/injury/suffering/damage to person/property) should only require one day or three at the most before release.

Currently, not one single government with the whole entire planet has this kind of a system implemented, but if that day were to ever come, I guarantee you that you will see an eventual significant decrease in criminal-interactions between people amongst those particular populations, and as its successes become known to the rest of the world-populations, the wise would see that there's something to such a system & wish to implement it within their own regions.


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28 Jul 2015, 1:54 pm

Janissy wrote:
Janissy wrote:
I pay more (a lot more) for grass fed beef. Even though the farm it comes from is a short drive my house, it still costs more than grain fed beef from a larger farm. It's a small farm and the people running it can't do a volume business . You could even call it a boutique farm. Judging from the people also there to buy, the customer base is middle class health nuts willing to pay double for grass fed. There are plenty of people who consider that stupid. Should this producer/consumer exchange be shut down to protect us from what some consider the stupidity of paying double for the same amount of beef?


GnosticBishop wrote:
The issue is liars taking advantage of the gullible.

Your beef farmer is giving you beef. Not lies about what he gives you being beef while just giving you beef manure.

Regards
DL


The issue is not liars taking advantage of the gullible. It is purely your opinion that priests/pastors etc. are lying to their congregation. If they believe what they are saying, it is by definition not a lie. I am an atheist. I do not agree with their beliefs. This does not mean they are lying. It also does not mean that the people in the congregation are gullible. People who have different beliefs from you are not gullible for believing things you do not. I am not a gnostic. I am an atheist. But I'm not going to call you gullible for believing in....whatever gnostics believe (despite many posts from many people I'm not definately sure). It's just a difference.

Thus the point of my post you quoted about the beef farmer with high prices (which I think are justified). The farmer isn't lying to me. But there are people who think that boutique farmers are lying when they imply (or don't disagree with) the claim that their grass feed beef is healthier than what I could get for much cheaper if I stuck to industrial-scale farmed beef. And that I am gullible for paying more to this boutique farmer. Should I be legally protected from what some people think is my gullibility and some people think are his (and similar farmers) lies? {disclaimer: I have encountered people who think I'm gullible and the health claim is bs but none have suggested legal changes}

You are doing precisely that. You are claiming that beliefs different from your own are lies and that the people who believe them are gullible rather than simply following a religion you don't.


Not so.

We can know that priests and imams are lying from straight deduction from what they themselves tell us.

They say that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

Then they turn about and tell you of all they know and fathom of what is unknowable and unfathomable.

If you cannot see the lies from that then you are not intelligent enough to judge.

Regards
DL



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28 Jul 2015, 2:07 pm

[quote="Ban-Dodger"][/quote]

"the fact of the matter is that destructive-behaviours are found everywhere,"

Exactly why someone must write an enforce laws.

Imagine even on our roads.
Take away the speed limits and other signage or the enforcement of the laws we now have, and what do you think would happen in quick order?

Correct. Carnage.

Don't get me wrong.
I absolutely hate that we have had to use religions and governments to govern ourselves and provide social control and manipulation. On this, you and I have no argument. But to think we can do away with most governance would be foolish for both of us.

We cannot ever be as free as you and I would like. As Socrates asked or, answered really about this issue, who would make your shoes?

IOW. We are all in this together, alone, and we all rely on each other, via laws, to look after each other.

Regards
DL



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28 Jul 2015, 2:11 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Not so.

We can know that priests and imams are lying from straight deduction from what they themselves tell us.

They say that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

Then they turn about and tell you of all they know and fathom of what is unknowable and unfathomable.

If you cannot see the lies from that then you are not intelligent enough to judge.

Regards
DL


That's your argument? Those things aren't inconsistent. Priests, imams (and rabbis) are all working from a Judeo-Christian tradition which has revealed knowledge at its core; Bible, Torah, Koran. All 3 documents are said to give revealed information (for those who believe in revealed information) but none claim it's the totality of all information about God.

If something is mysterious, does that therefore mean somebody is lying if they say they know anything about it? :roll:



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28 Jul 2015, 2:18 pm

Janissy wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Not so.

We can know that priests and imams are lying from straight deduction from what they themselves tell us.

They say that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

Then they turn about and tell you of all they know and fathom of what is unknowable and unfathomable.

If you cannot see the lies from that then you are not intelligent enough to judge.

Regards
DL


That's your argument? Those things aren't inconsistent. Priests, imams (and rabbis) are all working from a Judeo-Christian tradition which has revealed knowledge at its core; Bible, Torah, Koran. All 3 documents are said to give revealed information (for those who believe in revealed information) but none claim it's the totality of all information about God.

If something is mysterious, does that therefore mean somebody is lying if they say they know anything about it? :roll:


It does when they also tell you that what they know is not supposed to be knowable and that they somehow fathom the unfathomable.

But have a look at what even Jesus' contemporaries had to say about all that was written of the so called revealed religion.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Regards
DL



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28 Jul 2015, 4:12 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Janissy wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Not so.

We can know that priests and imams are lying from straight deduction from what they themselves tell us.

They say that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

Then they turn about and tell you of all they know and fathom of what is unknowable and unfathomable.

If you cannot see the lies from that then you are not intelligent enough to judge.

Regards
DL


That's your argument? Those things aren't inconsistent. Priests, imams (and rabbis) are all working from a Judeo-Christian tradition which has revealed knowledge at its core; Bible, Torah, Koran. All 3 documents are said to give revealed information (for those who believe in revealed information) but none claim it's the totality of all information about God.

If something is mysterious, does that therefore mean somebody is lying if they say they know anything about it? :roll:


It does when they also tell you that what they know is not supposed to be knowable and that they somehow fathom the unfathomable.

But have a look at what even Jesus' contemporaries had to say about all that was written of the so called revealed religion.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Regards
DL


A) they don't do that: say X about Y is unfathomable and then proceed to give along lecture about X about Y.

In fact they usually do the exact opposite: resort to saying "God works in mysterious ways,etc, etc,.." just before becoming silent about X about Y.

B) the two quotes are interestng, but they have nothing to do with your point.

c) You cant outlaw any institution that "lies" because then you could simply define anything that you disagree with as a "deliberate lie" and outlaw it. Obama could declare the creed of Republicanism "a deliberate lie" and outlaw the GOP. A president who happened to be Baptists could declare any faith other than Baptism a "deliberate lie" and end of freedom of religion, and so forth.



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28 Jul 2015, 8:57 pm

I need to correct you on the « Law » for what humans call « Law » and put them into Government-Legislations are NOT actually « Laws » but are actually Decrees. And we do NOT need those Decrees.

GnosticBishop wrote:
Ban-Dodger wrote:


"the fact of the matter is that destructive-behaviours are found everywhere,"

Exactly why someone must write an enforce laws.

Imagine even on our roads.
Take away the speed limits and other signage or the enforcement of the laws we now have, and what do you think would happen in quick order?

Correct. Carnage.

Don't get me wrong.
I absolutely hate that we have had to use religions and governments to govern ourselves and provide social control and manipulation. On this, you and I have no argument. But to think we can do away with most governance would be foolish for both of us.

We cannot ever be as free as you and I would like. As Socrates asked or, answered really about this issue, who would make your shoes?

IOW. We are all in this together, alone, and we all rely on each other, via laws, to look after each other.

Regards
DL

What humanity DOES need are Guide-Lines, just like when you have an Instruction-Manual on how to do something correctly, with its own safety-measures, such as operating Cooking Equipment, the instructions are NOT « Laws » but Guide-Lines, and if it's something « Dangerous » that is being operated upon, then of course it's also Wise to include Safety-Instructions as well as Warnings as to what could happen if Safety-Guide-Lines aren't followed.

This does NOT require Government (i.e.: forcing it upon others). Perhaps you are unaware of this, but a Government is a system of Punishment, NOT a system of Rehabilitation nor is it a System of Education, and is therefore a system of WAR, a Government (the way they are presently structured) therefore is NOT a System of Peacefulness, and the last time I had bothered to ask Court-Workers (i.e.: Lawyers/Attourneys) regarding the purpose of the existence of a Court-System, the answer I got was that it was a system to determine how to Punish you.

I tell you, I most certainly do NOT need anybody's help in punishing myself, for I had already done a pretty damn good job of punishing myself WITHOUT the need for anybody to force it upon my person, and furthermore, the Prison-Population in the United-States™ factually happens to be the highest amongst ALL nations on the entire planet, MOST of its captives being in there for NON-Violent purposes (i.e.: they have committed absolutely NO acts of harm/damage/injury/suffering upon other persons or property, yet they were witch-hunted as criminals, and have thus been IMPOVERISHED due to the Criminal Political-Decrees). Additionally, ALL « Countries » within the world follow the SAME Government-System (this is called: Maritime Legal-System), and you can actually EXPECT to see that of which is happening in Southern-Italy to also eventually reach every other « nation » that refuses to heed the types of warnings that I give about the Enforcement-Systems.

Regarding the LAW, The REAL LAW, that « Law » happens to be something like a « Golden-Rule » system, capable of enforcing itself, WITHOUT any mere mortals needing to take it upon themselves to think that Ideologies need to be Forced upon others, and if you need to see an actual « Academically Studied » simulation as to changing the Rules themselves to NOT be extortionist, towards that of being more along the lines of Guide-Lines, then you, a « Gnostic » Christian, should be familiar with some of these expressions, and their meanings, and how they are NOT « Government-Decrees » made via Politicians who manipulatively claim that they are Laws...:

« Blessèd are the merciful for they shall receive mercy »
« Blessed are the peaceful for they shall be able to live peacefully »
« Blessèd are those who forgive for they shall receive forgiveness »
« Woe unto those who do not forgive for neither will they be forgiven »

Guide-Lines, man, because Guide-Lines like, The Guide-Lines might actually be Over-Powered.

Only ONE « Law » actually exists : « You will experience everything that you or your servants cause others to experience (and if not during the current life-existence then in the next or a future life-existence) »


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GnosticBishop
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29 Jul 2015, 8:56 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
[
Quote:
quote="GnosticBishop"]
Janissy wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Not so.

We can know that priests and imams are lying from straight deduction from what they themselves tell us.

They say that God is unfathomable and unknowable and works in mysterious ways.

Then they turn about and tell you of all they know and fathom of what is unknowable and unfathomable.

If you cannot see the lies from that then you are not intelligent enough to judge.

Regards
DL


That's your argument? Those things aren't inconsistent. Priests, imams (and rabbis) are all working from a Judeo-Christian tradition which has revealed knowledge at its core; Bible, Torah, Koran. All 3 documents are said to give revealed information (for those who believe in revealed information) but none claim it's the totality of all information about God.

If something is mysterious, does that therefore mean somebody is lying if they say they know anything about it? :roll:


It does when they also tell you that what they know is not supposed to be knowable and that they somehow fathom the unfathomable.

But have a look at what even Jesus' contemporaries had to say about all that was written of the so called revealed religion.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Regards
DL


A) they don't do that: say X about Y is unfathomable and then proceed to give along lecture about X about Y.


http://biblehub.com/romans/11-33.htm


Quote:
In fact they usually do the exact opposite: resort to saying "God works in mysterious ways,etc, etc,.." just before becoming silent about X about Y.

B) the two quotes are interestng, but they have nothing to do with your point.


They sure do.

Quote:
c) You cant outlaw any institution that "lies" because then you could simply define anything that you disagree with as a "deliberate lie" and outlaw it.


We already have fraud laws that do just that and I have no say in what they decide is a lie or not.

Quote:
Obama could declare the creed of Republicanism "a deliberate lie" and outlaw the GOP. A president who happened to be Baptists could declare any faith other than Baptism a "deliberate lie" and end of freedom of religion, and so forth.
[/quote]

No stupidity please and religions are not free. They are under the laws f the land like all corporate citizens. That is why they have to pay taxes like anyone else unless the government exempts them.

Regards
DL