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rvacountrysinger
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22 Jul 2015, 7:33 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
It's easy for penniless, liberal young people to think taxation is a good thing, however, when they get older and starting earning money, they wise up and become conservatives.

So, I would think liberals are likely younger, less intelligent, less successful, poorer, naive, though, maybe more creative because of their youth.

“He who is a not a [liberal] at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/24/heart-head/



There are lots of older liberals. Look at bill and hilary Clinton. Lots of old people can be liberal.



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22 Jul 2015, 7:36 pm

Likewise, Bernie Sanders is 73 and he stands for liberal ideals better than either of the Clintons ever did.



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22 Jul 2015, 7:37 pm

xenocity wrote:
Typically conservatives are very narrow minded in their beliefs and those beliefs are highly strict in upholding them.
Conservatives typically only associate with those who share their values and beliefs while actively avoiding/protesting those who are different.
Typically a conservative who is willing to broaden their horizons, winds up being shunned by their fellow conservatives.
Closing oneself off from the wider world, typically leads to a decline in overall creativity.


The literal definition of a liberal is anyone who fails to fully accept, practice and/or rejects conservative values and beliefs.

A conservative believes in trickle down economics, tax cuts exclusively for the rich, overspending on the military (it is now the biggest part of the U.S. federal budget), privatization of everything including education, living by God's Law and others.

You reject or fail to uphold these values and beliefs makes you an automatically a DIRTY LIBERAL! !

Lastly both CREATIVITY & THE ARTS have been traditionally classified as liberal values over thousands of years of human history (liberal typically fund them, while conservatives typically banish them).


Then why do I meet so many non-creative liberals? I am a Conservative! And I support the arts. I just don't support progressive agendas. IMO, politics are something separate. They don't have reflection upon intelligence or creativity or lack there of. They are mutually exclusive.



rvacountrysinger
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22 Jul 2015, 7:39 pm

Furthermore , why do liberals insist that art is the only form creativity? Why don't they consider innovation in business and technology creative? If we're talking about stereotypes, more conservatives are in business- but business is a form of creativity. Creating a business, creating a market, creating advertizing, a brand of any kind is highly creative. Creativity is not limited to the theater world.



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22 Jul 2015, 7:40 pm

aghogday wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
It's easy for penniless, liberal young people to think taxation is a good thing, however, when they get older and starting earning money, they wise up and become conservatives.

So, I would think liberals are likely younger, less intelligent, less successful, poorer, naive, though, maybe more creative because of their youth.

“He who is a not a [liberal] at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/02/24/heart-head/


I'm older, and I'm still penniless and liberal. And as a matter of fact, I write.
And for the record, I have never claimed soundness of mind.
As for the OP - conservatives are usually people geared more toward making money, and being a success in life than they are to dedicating their lives to the arts, as there's rarely any money in it save for the very successful. That, and conservatives - especially social conservatives - tend to have too many taboos which dissuade them from taking part in the arts (think only of how the religious conservative establishment in Shakespeare's time called the theater evil - and the same applies today with the right's damning of Hollywood). After all, social conservatives have been on the side opposing homosexuality, and in the past, interracial marriage, things that people in the arts - and liberals - have rarely been afraid of. Of course, there have always been exceptions to this rule, as the outlandishly eccentric artist Salvador Dali was a supporter of fascism in Spain (even though one of his closest friends had been murdered by the right wing dictatorship there).


Note:

Don't feel too bad; most folks assessed as LIBERAL creative geniuses; LIKE VINCENT VAN GOGH; are assessed as such after life; as duh; they are ahead of their time and so-called common folks do not understand what they do; until they as a group catch up to understand what they DID.

I am like Grand MA Moses; as I start later; so I accumulate my riches first; that makes me even more functionally able to create at ease; without satisfying the LIMITATIONS AND EXPECTATIONS IN opinions of others who have no frigging idea what I am doing yet.

WHAT'S kinda cool about a Vincent Van Gogh today; is there is a clear historical precedence for that; so ya don't have to feel so isolated and alone; although of course one often is; if one does not play by the prison of cultural norms and regulations; not to get outcast from the herd or sheep at hand; whatever the leader of the group may dictate that as..:)

Technology and stored riches provide the answer for that; as being outcast now; does not necessarily; though often still does; spell starving to death conversely WITH money in the bank; a retirement; and a steady supply of grocery store, and buffet food as I regularly indulge in and share, as my own personal creative effort as ART, online now..:)

No telling what Grand MA Moses could of done now if she only has an iPhone, iMAC, iPAD, IPod, and MacPro to deliver the creative goods; with her talent of course, still fully in tow and in the creative know and feeling of THAT..:)

HELL, WE should all be creative geniuses by now; with all those free association tools for those who expand their mind out of the box of school stuff too..:) If a person does not work and just createS now; the possibilities and potentials over the course of life now are practically LIMITLESS like that movie by the same name too! and Lucy too; that movie is super kool; and OH MY GOD does she increase her physical and emotional intelligence too!..:)

I love 'Lucy' the most i think; of all those trans-human movies coming out now; and just to think; it's already possible without drugs for the folks in the know and feel all about THAT..;)


Absolutely. Besides Van Gogh, Lovecraft was another case of a revolutionary in the arts (in this case literature) who only came to be appreciated after death. As for his own political beliefs, Lovecraft had started out a very far right conservative (even though he was an atheist), but because he experienced destitution in the Great Depression, he ended up walking on the long road toward liberalism for the remainder of his life.


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22 Jul 2015, 7:48 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
Then why do I meet so many non-creative liberals?

Because it's ridiculous generalizing based on stereotypes with no connective basis in fact. The two factors have little to do with one another.

rvacountrysinger wrote:
IMO, politics are something separate. They don't have reflection upon intelligence or creativity or lack there of. They are mutually exclusive.

Then why did you start this thread?!? You just lambasted someone offering their opinion on your own question of "are liberals really more creative?" by countering that you've met a few vaguely "non-creative" "liberals". You're making something mutually exclusive into something wholly mutual here.



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22 Jul 2015, 7:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Absolutely. Besides Van Gogh, Lovecraft was another case of a revolutionary in the arts (in this case literature) who only came to be appreciated after death. As for his own political beliefs, Lovecraft had started out a very far right conservative (even though he was an atheist), but because he experienced destitution in the Great Depression, he ended up walking on the long road toward liberalism for the remainder of his life.


Keep in mind, it was a decidedly different political atmosphere in Lovecraft's time. His "liberalism" was in stark contrast to today's; he was still rampantly xenophobic and many who have written about his politics (such as here) write he would've been most likely to embrace fascism or Nazism/National Socialism. I love Lovecraft something fierce, but his politics were just as creepy as his stories sometimes.



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22 Jul 2015, 8:02 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
Then why do I meet so many non-creative liberals?

Because it's ridiculous generalizing based on stereotypes with no connective basis in fact. The two factors have little to do with one another.

rvacountrysinger wrote:
IMO, politics are something separate. They don't have reflection upon intelligence or creativity or lack there of. They are mutually exclusive.

Then why did you start this thread?!? You just lambasted someone offering their opinion on your own question of "are liberals really more creative?" by countering that you've met a few vaguely "non-creative" "liberals". You're making something mutually exclusive into something wholly mutual here.


I started the thread because several "studies" were pushed by liberal media hounds to say that conservatives can't be creative.



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22 Jul 2015, 8:27 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Absolutely. Besides Van Gogh, Lovecraft was another case of a revolutionary in the arts (in this case literature) who only came to be appreciated after death. As for his own political beliefs, Lovecraft had started out a very far right conservative (even though he was an atheist), but because he experienced destitution in the Great Depression, he ended up walking on the long road toward liberalism for the remainder of his life.


Keep in mind, it was a decidedly different political atmosphere in Lovecraft's time. His "liberalism" was in stark contrast to today's; he was still rampantly xenophobic and many who have written about his politics (such as here) write he would've been most likely to embrace fascism or Nazism/National Socialism. I love Lovecraft something fierce, but his politics were just as creepy as his stories sometimes.


Actually, Lovecraft had become an FDR New Dealer in later life. And when a friend had returned from Germany with word of how the Nazis were treating Jews and others, Lovecraft was very much cured of his affection for fascism. Even before that, Lovecraft thought Hitler was little more than "an honest clown."
And while Lovecraft had never entirely lost his racism, he did mellow on that subject in later life. He even adopted a notion of cultural relativism, saying, for instance, that Chinese culture was different from western culture, but was of equal worth, largely due to ending his life long isolation and actually meeting new and different people. Unfortunately, he never lost his anti-black prejudice.


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22 Jul 2015, 8:28 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
I started the thread because several "studies" were pushed by liberal media hounds to say that conservatives can't be creative.


First you said it was "a study", now it's "several". Do you have links to these studies?



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22 Jul 2015, 8:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, Lovecraft had become an FDR New Dealer in later life. And when a friend had returned from Germany with word of how the Nazis were treating Jews and others, Lovecraft was very much cured of his affection for fascism. Even before that, Lovecraft thought Hitler was little more than "an honest clown."
And while Lovecraft had never entirely lost his racism, he did mellow on that subject in later life. He even adopted a notion of cultural relativism, saying, for instance, that Chinese culture was different from western culture, but was of equal worth, largely due to ending his life long isolation and actually meeting new and different people. Unfortunately, he never lost his anti-black prejudice.


Interesting; I knew the key points of his social and political beliefs, but I never looked into it with much detail.



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22 Jul 2015, 8:33 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, Lovecraft had become an FDR New Dealer in later life. And when a friend had returned from Germany with word of how the Nazis were treating Jews and others, Lovecraft was very much cured of his affection for fascism. Even before that, Lovecraft thought Hitler was little more than "an honest clown."
And while Lovecraft had never entirely lost his racism, he did mellow on that subject in later life. He even adopted a notion of cultural relativism, saying, for instance, that Chinese culture was different from western culture, but was of equal worth, largely due to ending his life long isolation and actually meeting new and different people. Unfortunately, he never lost his anti-black prejudice.


Interesting; I knew the key points of his social and political beliefs, but I never looked into it with much detail.


There's some very good biographical information on Lovecraft, such as Lovecraft: A Biography, by the late L. Sprague De Camp (though this book might be out of print), as well as some stuff by S.T. Joshi, who is considered to be the preeminent Lovecraft historian today.


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22 Jul 2015, 8:40 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
There's some very good biographical information on Lovecraft, such as Lovecraft: A Biography, by the late L. Sprague De Camp (though this book might be out of print), as well as some stuff by S.T. Joshi, who is considered to be the preeminent Lovecraft historian today.


Oh, I know S.T. Joshi; I'm the kind of nerd who took the H.P. Lovecraft walking tour when I was in Providence. I've read his complete fictional oeuvre, I just never focused too much on his personal life outside of the basic abbreviated biographies, and most of my knowledge of his views are either theological or centered around his most controversial racial claims.

I just recently bought 'The Annotated H.P. Lovecraft' that came out last year...I should think about cracking that open soon.



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22 Jul 2015, 9:07 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
There's some very good biographical information on Lovecraft, such as Lovecraft: A Biography, by the late L. Sprague De Camp (though this book might be out of print), as well as some stuff by S.T. Joshi, who is considered to be the preeminent Lovecraft historian today.


Oh, I know S.T. Joshi; I'm the kind of nerd who took the H.P. Lovecraft walking tour when I was in Providence. I've read his complete fictional oeuvre, I just never focused too much on his personal life outside of the basic abbreviated biographies, and most of my knowledge of his views are either theological or centered around his most controversial racial claims.

I just recently bought 'The Annotated H.P. Lovecraft' that came out last year...I should think about cracking that open soon.


Always glad to hear from another Lovecraft nerd!
Another source for biographical information on Lovecraft is the documentary on DVD called Fear Of The Unknown, which also delves into his fiction.


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22 Jul 2015, 9:10 pm

i think conservatives are more creative based on the stories reported on fox news.