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devilschild
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19 Jul 2015, 11:49 am

Hey, my name is Jason, I'm an aspie, musician , and Satanist. I wanted to talk about the subject of Satanism because as an outspoken Satanist, most tend to go by what they hear without really doing any unbiased research.
If you think Satanists are all about bringing evil throughout the world and committing sinister acts like rape, child molestation, and sacrificing infants and animals, you have been lied to. Satanism condemns violent acts unless appropriate (in defense of yourself or a loved one). Satanists don't look at Satan as a representation of evil like Christians do. We rather look at him as a representation of individuality, freewill, and enlightenment. He was the first to question authority and walk his own direction. Most Satanists nowadays are really atheists using Satan as a symbol of man's natural desires. I am not an atheist (though I do agree with a lot of what they have to say and I don't deny the fact of evolution), I am a deist. I believe there is some sort of higher force out there but we have no understanding of it. If it's a God, highly unlikely it's a God man created. Who are we to say we understand the mysteries of the universe? Hell, we haven't even physically been of of this solar system, why should we know what lies beyond the WHOLE of all existence.
Satanism doesn't have any rules that don't have any logical reason behind them. I find nothing wrong with homosexuality, masturbating, premarital sex, drugs, etc. because I believe what you do is your choice. As long as you prepare yourself for the consequences of your actions and you're not hurting others, I find nothing morally wrong with it.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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19 Jul 2015, 11:59 am

Oh, so you're a humanist! I like humanism over most Christianity because the inclination for abusing others is lessened through humanism because you accept people for what they are and go from there, dealing with what they do based on what they are, not some doctrine in a book. So if someone hurts others, even if it's through a righteous code of bullying, it is still immoral while modern Christians feel it is their duty to bully and anything less is humanism or part of the zeitgeist.

What you describe doesn't sound like it has much to do with the Biblical Satan but it does sound like humanism.

Glad I can clear things up.

Although I'm a gnostic, I am often confused with a humanist myself.

Biblical Satan cannot be explained away by what you describe in your OP. Satan is destructive energy.



Jacoby
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19 Jul 2015, 12:03 pm

"Satanism" at least the kind that Anton LaVey founded is more of a repudiation of organized western religion than an actual religion in of its self. A humanist antireligion, they don't actually believe Satan or hell or anything else like that exists.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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19 Jul 2015, 12:10 pm

A lot of Satanism is based on what Lavey states in his book Satanic Bible but in reality, it's humanism inside the body of Ba'al.

There is real Satanic energy but most people with sense don't like it because it crushes them.

If you want a true example of Satanism look at the lives of people who murder others. That's a blatant example of what it is. Richard Ramirez, for example, was a true Satanist.



devilschild
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19 Jul 2015, 1:59 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Oh, so you're a humanist! I like humanism over most Christianity because the inclination for abusing others is lessened through humanism because you accept people for what they are and go from there, dealing with what they do based on what they are, not some doctrine in a book. So if someone hurts others, even if it's through a righteous code of bullying, it is still immoral while modern Christians feel it is their duty to bully and anything less is humanism or part of the zeitgeist.

What you describe doesn't sound like it has much to do with the Biblical Satan but it does sound like humanism.

Glad I can clear things up.

Although I'm a gnostic, I am often confused with a humanist myself.

Biblical Satan cannot be explained away by what you describe in your OP. Satan is destructive energy.


Yes, I guess you can call it humanism. Some Satanists will disagree to some point but I don't mind people calling it humanism. I actually enjoy that word. I'm no gay rights activist, no feminist, you can consider me a humanist. We all deserve the same rights no matter your race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc., we are ALL equal.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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19 Jul 2015, 2:12 pm

devilschild wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Oh, so you're a humanist! I like humanism over most Christianity because the inclination for abusing others is lessened through humanism because you accept people for what they are and go from there, dealing with what they do based on what they are, not some doctrine in a book. So if someone hurts others, even if it's through a righteous code of bullying, it is still immoral while modern Christians feel it is their duty to bully and anything less is humanism or part of the zeitgeist.

What you describe doesn't sound like it has much to do with the Biblical Satan but it does sound like humanism.

Glad I can clear things up.

Although I'm a gnostic, I am often confused with a humanist myself.

Biblical Satan cannot be explained away by what you describe in your OP. Satan is destructive energy.


Yes, I guess you can call it humanism. Some Satanists will disagree to some point but I don't mind people calling it humanism. I actually enjoy that word. I'm no gay rights activist, no feminist, you can consider me a humanist. We all deserve the same rights no matter your race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc., we are ALL equal.


If you want to put the face of Ba'al on that, feel free. Ba'al is not particularly evil, he's just an idol which according the the Jews, God disapproves of. But he's not the face of evil to the Phoenician culture. Ba'al is what westerners think of as Satan but that's an oversimplification. He's the dude with the horns. Ba'al just means "Lord." Originally, it was a title for any god.



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19 Jul 2015, 2:15 pm

I don't get the point of calling it satanism. Do you actually believe in Satan or is it more metaphorical? If you believe in him then your position on him is somewhat gnostic (though I think all early Christianity was like that, without a fixed doctrine but ever shifting.

Deism used to be all the rage, Jefferson was a Deist. It is a logical position if you are not an atheist.

As an atheist humanist, I don't really feel the need to join a group about that to be an individual.



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19 Jul 2015, 2:25 pm

You could say that the negative concept of Baal-zebub, was to establish monotheism. These are old god of Canaanite and other Semitic religions. Judaism is an offshoot of Canaanite religion, and it was polytheistic too. It became Monotheistic around the time of Babylonian invasion. It wasn't so much that they didn't believe in other gods, that they didn't want their enemies' gods worshiped.



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19 Jul 2015, 2:36 pm

CoS is pretty much a secular humanist organization with Randian economic and social outlooks, underscoring sexual liberation, and having a few different kinds of rituals that are more there seemingly to just have something to do.

My problem with it is that other groups looking to find a magical angle get into some weird stuff. Joy of Satan is well known for hanging their story on anti-semitism, and of course anyone whose heard of Order of Nine Angles the alarm bells that rings don't need much explanation because in a lot of ways they try to make a lot of those things happen that you described as the Christian assumption of satanists and a lot of those things can get a person put away behind bars for life.

If some's just looking for a secular humanist group that still likes a fair amount of Jungian psychology than sure, CoS might have what you're looking for. If someone's looking for a more magical path with dark-side elements I'd probably recommend OTO or A.'.A.'. just because Crowley's stuff appeals to that side of the mind but it also happens to be in its own way very right-hand path but with the tantric benefits of the left-hand path.


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19 Jul 2015, 7:26 pm

Hi devilschild I'm an Aspie and a theistic Satanist tell me are you very open about it, I am but I know some aren't due to the negative (and mainly false) stereotype.



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19 Jul 2015, 9:19 pm

Jesus does link all the Canaanite gods to Satan but He is speaking from a Jewish perspective since Jews were exceptionally mystical and did not give God a form or name. Rather, they looked for God in the ways of mankind and natural events. They felt His presence through circumstance.

The book of Job does not call Satan Ba'al but is perhaps the most confusing book in the Bible. If God allowing Satan to mess with Job, why does the Fire of God fall to torment him by burning up his sheep? Satan was also a great wind that caused a house to fall on Job's children. He was the sword used by the Chaldeans striking Job's servants?

Why such odd language in this book? Wind is often associated with spirit and God by the Hebrews, so why in this book is it a manifestation of Satan?

It is a good example of Satanic energy at work.



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19 Jul 2015, 9:52 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The book of Job does not call Satan Ba'al but is perhaps the most confusing book in the Bible. If God allowing Satan to mess with Job, why does the Fire of God fall to torment him by burning up his sheep? Satan was also a great wind that caused a house to fall on Job's children. He was the sword used by the Chaldeans striking Job's servants?

Why such odd language in this book? Wind is often associated with spirit and God by the Hebrews, so why in this book is it a manifestation of Satan?

The other thing about the old testament - you don't hear about hell fire or brimstone, nothing about a war in heaven, nothing about a devil taking people and angels to hell. The OT seems to constructively be God's skeptic.

The -el suffix means 'of God' and the four archangels of the quarters - Raphael, Gabriel, Michael, Uriel - all have names similarly describing themselves as aspects, or in Michael's case a certain kind of redundancy in the sense that his name seems to mean 'likeness of God' where Gabriel's name means 'Strength of God', Raphael is 'Healing of God', Uriel 'Light of God'. I don't know what 'Cynic of God' or 'Skeptic of God' would be in Hebrew but you might essentially be able to identify that as the being that was dubbed ha satan. It would be the portion of God's personality that sees flimsy, weak beings of dubious integrity that would want to kick them for existing and it was as if in Job the higher mind was having it out with that aspect.

When reading Job I found something else really interesting - it seemed to keep hinting strongly at an alchemical process as the push the boundaries of their own discursive logic. When they talked about the futility of life, the redundancy, it seemed to be driving at an idea that there's a much larger and longer-run structure than simply a person's incarnation; perhaps reincarnation but they never admitted that outwardly in Job. Rather they tried to fish around for causal understanding of what happens and why, Job's friends kept trying to verbally drag a confession out of him that he'd done something to deserve it (and they kept pressing him harder each time he didn't tell them what they wanted to hear - probably because the idea that God would allow such a thing scared too much to accept), some fourth guy comes in who doesn't know Job who tries to let all three of them have it, finally God shows up and says 'None of your business, you know nothing of what's happening here, and Job's right - he didn't do anything wrong'. After that he gives twice everything back to Job (albeit new humans don't replace humans lost) but it seemed to very much not be a meaningless episode because the implicit suggestion is that Job came out a stronger person and having faced such despair may have lost his fear of such things.

Overall the way things balloon out in scope nothing in the story of Job seems to suggest anything like a battle for the salvation or perdition of man. Even the story of Adam and Eve in the garden and the eating of the apple (as well as the identity of the Necthash) has very different interpretations from the popular outlook and the Gnostic Luciferian version with Christ and Sophia as the tempters is just one of the better known, the other would be that the entire fall was leaving a much less ideal state - ie. lacking conscious volition - and in gaining conscious volition (ie. ego consciousness) gaining the awareness of desirable and less desirable situations, ie. good and evil. In that later story it was the evolution of humanity from a prior animal state where all hunting for food, mating, killing, etc. was not done with any sense of a morality. In fact it seems like the 613 Levitical laws were meant to even push that gap open wider and this is something if I remember correctly that Paul said a lot to in the book of Hebrews. Similarly the dive of humanity from pure/unexperienced souls down into the nater of matter (involution) and the return back to whence we came (evolution) is the underlying meaning of Jesus' parable of the prodigal son.


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19 Jul 2015, 10:49 pm

Heil Satan! o/ :lol:



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20 Jul 2015, 1:43 am

I think LaVeyan is probably the most common and widespread type, but there are others.
Some of them are fine with violence and other acts that most consider indecent.
For example, some of the people in the Norwegian black metal scene.

I was "exploring" a few years ago, and I found a certain (theistic) sect that claimed that Lucifer was actually the creator and that God messed things up, and that Lucifer would eventually smite God, all the angels, and all the people who didn't worship him.

Essentially Christianity in reverse, I guess.



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20 Jul 2015, 1:59 am

Read about the Yazidi religion and it will sound really familiar.