The KKK used the American Flag, originally..

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Geekonychus
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24 Jul 2015, 9:01 am

Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?


The democratic party changed in the 40's. In the south, it literally changed. Southern democrats formed the Dixiecrat party. They later merged into the RNC.

The south hasn't changed.


Context doesn't mean anything in 2015, it's just feelings now. The Democrats are the party that enslaved and oppressed black people, why does the modern party want to keep that name?


Context means plenty. As for the names of our political parties, i am more concerned with the way that the meanings have been twisted over time, and the fact that both of them are right wing these days.

You keep making these fallacious arguments where you equate something that has a very narrow definition and application with something else that has a very broad definition and application.

Frankly it's stupid and only sounds clever to people who are already inside your echo chamber.


I think its all stupid too, demonize what they did that was evil not a flag. Context should matter but it doesn't, this whole Confederate flag fiasco came about because of a horrific crime from sick individual. That's literally all we got out of it, we don't try to examine motive we don't try to think of ways to prevent it. We attack a flag because it triggers some feelings for some people. Don't display it, I don't care but lets not pretend that context matters now. I only follow the logic given to me, if you ban the Confederate flag okay but it doesn't make a lot of sense to share the name of the political party most associated with slavery and white supremacy.

A lot of white people have this habit of trying to bring other whites down or to put themselves above them as "good whites", they can't be racist they can't be responsible if you're willing to throw one of your "own" under the bus. That's how I see that line of thinking, look at how not racist I am! There is real racism that exists today, there is systematic racist laws and policies in place but we talk about a flag, its pathetic.


Your flag isn't banned. Private citizens can display it all they want and nobody is arguing otherwise. Your argument that ignoring context is somehow logical is ridiculous and utterly undermined by your second paragraph calling out whites who dare object to the flag being hung in government buildings as race traitors. The only white's being thrown under the bus are the inbred racist ones and that's a good thing. Those people aren't my "own" and deserve no defense from me, regardless of skintone.

You only have a bias against context because, in this case, the context is quite clear.



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24 Jul 2015, 9:07 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It doesn't matter that the KKK used the American flag.

The KKK appropriated it. It's not the flag's fault!

What flag an idiot organization uses is irrelevant as far as the flag is concerned.



You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses. Similar idea with the Confederate flag. Most believe it is a symbol of states that wanted to fight to keep their structure of owning people. Southerners proclaim they were fighting against an overly mechanized world, like what industries had in the north, where machines did the bulk of the work. If southerners think it's so great they can go out in the heat and bugs and do the work themselves! This is the real reason machines eventually took over. No one likes heat and bugs. Don't you love it when people sit idly by, deciding what's good for "those others" without lifting one finger themselves. They do nothing yet sit in judgment of everyone else. If they aren't willing to go out and take action, they haven't earned the right to judge. Although machines rob us of opportunities to exercise, I prefer them over summertime misery with heat, humidity, burning sun and insects by the billions.



Jacoby
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24 Jul 2015, 9:17 am

Geekonychus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
They should change the name of the Democratic Party, how can they share the name of the party most associated with slavery?


The democratic party changed in the 40's. In the south, it literally changed. Southern democrats formed the Dixiecrat party. They later merged into the RNC.

The south hasn't changed.


Context doesn't mean anything in 2015, it's just feelings now. The Democrats are the party that enslaved and oppressed black people, why does the modern party want to keep that name?


Context means plenty. As for the names of our political parties, i am more concerned with the way that the meanings have been twisted over time, and the fact that both of them are right wing these days.

You keep making these fallacious arguments where you equate something that has a very narrow definition and application with something else that has a very broad definition and application.

Frankly it's stupid and only sounds clever to people who are already inside your echo chamber.


I think its all stupid too, demonize what they did that was evil not a flag. Context should matter but it doesn't, this whole Confederate flag fiasco came about because of a horrific crime from sick individual. That's literally all we got out of it, we don't try to examine motive we don't try to think of ways to prevent it. We attack a flag because it triggers some feelings for some people. Don't display it, I don't care but lets not pretend that context matters now. I only follow the logic given to me, if you ban the Confederate flag okay but it doesn't make a lot of sense to share the name of the political party most associated with slavery and white supremacy.

A lot of white people have this habit of trying to bring other whites down or to put themselves above them as "good whites", they can't be racist they can't be responsible if you're willing to throw one of your "own" under the bus. That's how I see that line of thinking, look at how not racist I am! There is real racism that exists today, there is systematic racist laws and policies in place but we talk about a flag, its pathetic.


Your flag isn't banned. Private citizens can display it all they want and nobody is arguing otherwise. Your argument that ignoring context is somehow logical is ridiculous and utterly undermined by your second paragraph calling out whites who dare object to the flag being hung in government buildings as race traitors. The only white's being thrown under the bus are the inbred racist ones and that's a good thing. Those people aren't my "own" and deserve no defense from me, regardless of skintone.

You only have a bias against context because, in this case, the context is quite clear.


Please don't strawman me, don't call it my flag because it is not. As blue of a Yankee as it gets as far as my family goes. In fact I say right in my post that I don't care whether or not it is displayed, that's the decision the people and their elected officials.

Are you trying to imply I am racist? I... just think the people the demonize these flags specifically are stupid, its just feelings based nonsense with no understanding of history or context or any rational thought. They just see red and their brain shuts down. I think there is such an insecurity in some white people that they feel the need to prove themselves as not racist; that's why we have this war on the Confederate flag, why we destroyed Paula Deen's life, why Martin O'Malley has to apologize for saying "all lives matter". I am actually against racism, you pay lip service in the most superficial way only the defuse guilt. The Confederacy is part of American history, you can't disown it and pretend it was some foreign evil enemy that we vanquished once and for all in 1865. The history of the United States is one of racism, enslavement, and genocide. Not the only thing but first and foremost before almost any other flag in the world.



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24 Jul 2015, 10:38 am

I don't think any German today (unless they are neo-Nazis) believe that the Nazi flag represents anything but oppression and death.

I'm not a person who "sits idly by, and judges." I go out in the world. I listen to many opinions. I formulate opinions based upon my own impressions, with input from others.

I just believe the KKK appropriated the American flag for its own purposes--hence, it's not the flag that's the problem.



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24 Jul 2015, 12:01 pm

The original post is factually wrong about this being news: everyone over a certain age is well aware of how the KKK would wrap itself in the American flag (and in the Christian cross, etc). It was common for Southern Whites who opposed the Black civil rights movement in the South in the Fifties/Sixties to practice the doublethink of waving both the flag of sedition (Confederate), and the American flag at the same time.


Whether the Confederate battle flag should be banned or not is another question. Its an ambiguous symbol that has always provoked ambivalent feelings. It can mean either thing: heritage, or hatred, depending upon the context. And maybe its okay for that ambiguity to continue: you are free to display it- but you have to take responsibility for how you are viewed for displaying it .



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24 Jul 2015, 12:50 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The original post is factually wrong about this being news: everyone over a certain age is well aware of how the KKK would wrap itself in the American flag (and in the Christian cross, etc). It was common for Southern Whites who opposed the Black civil rights movement in the South in the Fifties/Sixties to practice the doublethink of waving both the flag of sedition (Confederate), and the American flag at the same time.


Whether the Confederate battle flag should be banned or not is another question. Its an ambiguous symbol that has always provoked ambivalent feelings. It can mean either thing: heritage, or hatred, depending upon the context. And maybe its okay for that ambiguity to continue: you are free to display it- but you have to take responsibility for how you are viewed for displaying it .


Quoted for truth.

No one's banning a flag. You're free to wave it to your heart's content... just leave it off of state property. I don't get why this is so hard to understand.


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24 Jul 2015, 1:13 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't think any German today (unless they are neo-Nazis) believe that the Nazi flag represents anything but oppression and death.

I'm not a person who "sits idly by, and judges." I go out in the world. I listen to many opinions. I formulate opinions based upon my own impressions, with input from others.

I just believe the KKK appropriated the American flag for its own purposes--hence, it's not the flag that's the problem.

People who sit by and say, we must fight automation without actually doing manual labor was who I meant, not you in particular. Doesn't it annoy you when idle people say others should go out and break their backs but are not willing to do the same and if you suggest it to them, they would be absolutely mortified and consider you an enemy for life yet they are more than willing to demand with callous disregard, a system requiring others to do it.



kraftiekortie
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24 Jul 2015, 3:37 pm

I do get rather annoyed when others want me to do their work for them.



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24 Jul 2015, 3:44 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I do get rather annoyed when others want me to do their work for them.

I get annoyed when those who don't want to do hard, physical labor themselves think others should be forced to.



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24 Jul 2015, 4:07 pm

That's even worse!

Ana: I wouldn't call you quite an enigma--but you seem to have a unique, perhaps esoteric view of things



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24 Jul 2015, 5:36 pm

blauSamstag wrote:

The south hasn't changed.


That's bullcorn.Maybe it hasn't changed fast enough for some,but it has changed.It is continuing to change for the better.
If what you said is true,than how did I go to school with black kids and drink from the same water fountain??
There are pockets of hate all over this country,don't think it's just down here.


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24 Jul 2015, 9:17 pm

Misslizard wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:

The south hasn't changed.


That's bullcorn.Maybe it hasn't changed fast enough for some,but it has changed.It is continuing to change for the better.
If what you said is true,than how did I go to school with black kids and drink from the same water fountain??
There are pockets of hate all over this country,don't think it's just down here.


Sure, you gave up jim crow on an official basis.

You want a gold star for that?



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24 Jul 2015, 9:52 pm

The South changed, only about a quarter of the people around here still speak French. Very few only speak French.

The Americans were bad the Kintucks worse, then came the Carpetbaggers. Most of New Orleans are post Northern War of Aggression Yankees.

Later I learned the reason when I tried American food. They hate their nose and tongue and stomach.

We are said to be the most European American city. When I went to Europe they were as friendly, had great food, and enjoyed life.

When I went to America I found a glum people, willing to argue about anything, even if it happened 150 years ago. the food is horrible, and they do not know joy.

All across the south of the State is food, music, singing, dance, drink, playing cards, and it is time to eat again. This is French, Zydeco Bands.

New Orleans created Jazz, country blacks brought in Blues, and whites rocked like Jerry Lee Louis. Elvis was North Mississippi, and from Arkansas to the Blue Ridge, the old dance tunes of Europe and the American Bluegrass play all over. It has been going on for hundreds of years. Nashville was built on music and bourbon. Texas cowboys can make music, dance the Two Step, and ride rodeo. Texas Barbeque is one of the worlds high art forms.

It is hard to explain what culture is to people who do not have one.

We still fly the Fler De Leis, and curse Napoleon.



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24 Jul 2015, 10:44 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:

The south hasn't changed.


That's bullcorn.Maybe it hasn't changed fast enough for some,but it has changed.It is continuing to change for the better.
If what you said is true,than how did I go to school with black kids and drink from the same water fountain??
There are pockets of hate all over this country,don't think it's just down here.


Sure, you gave up jim crow on an official basis.

You want a gold star for that?

WTF would I want with a gold star? Ever looked at the Southern Poverty Law Center's hate map and looked at what's in your state??You'd like to believe we haven't changed in our personal life,I think that's called cultural prejudice.Assuming we are all racist becuse of the past and what a few idiots believe today.Thinking everyone in the South is a racist is like assuming all people of color are in a gang.Really ignorant to generalize......
Jim Crow didn't make me play with those kids,I did that becuse we had fun together.


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24 Jul 2015, 10:53 pm

Misslizard wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:

The south hasn't changed.


That's bullcorn.Maybe it hasn't changed fast enough for some,but it has changed.It is continuing to change for the better.
If what you said is true,than how did I go to school with black kids and drink from the same water fountain??
There are pockets of hate all over this country,don't think it's just down here.


Sure, you gave up jim crow on an official basis.

You want a gold star for that?

WTF would I want with a gold star? Ever looked at the Southern Poverty Law Center's hate map and looked at what's in your state??You'd like to believe we haven't changed in our personal life,I think that's called cultural prejudice.Assuming we are all racist becuse of the past and what a few idiots believe today.Thinking everyone in the South is a racist is like assuming all people of color are in a gang.Really ignorant to generalize......
Jim Crow didn't make me play with those kids,I did that because we had fun together.
Misslizard!! *hugs* I miss you so much I am glad to see you again! Unleash Godzilla upon the world and turn everything in the world reptilian for this is the new age of reptile and the age of mammals is a thing of the past! *secretly thinking of majoring in herpetology* Yes reptiles rule this planet once again muahahha snakes lizards crocs and turtles! Unite!


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