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blauSamstag
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10 Sep 2015, 10:49 pm

pity the wealthy man because he is unpleasant to be around?

what a crock.



AspieOtaku
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11 Sep 2015, 12:01 am

I dont get priviledge worth jack s**t, wtf is it I am an autistic hetersexual white male without the autism I would have that so called priviledge I would love that but I don't get it and get lumped in with non autistic hetero white males and expected to check my priviledge! WTF is it? Those same who lump me up make fun of autism and are ableists! People are god damned stupid!


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11 Sep 2015, 12:53 am

Nebogipfel wrote:
The term "Privilege" carries an implicit threat to take something away from those lumped in with the privileged. The "privileged" might be left resentful at their assumed guilt, pondering what of theirs is about to get pinched or redistributed. With some folks, being cast as the villains in this social theory will make them hostile to the "disadvantaged". With others, it will guilt trip them into accepting hostile maneuvers against themselves.



The 'privileged' are takers, they have no problem taking and hogging all they can well its best they start sharing the pie...of course I am referring to the sort of privileged wealth buys. I do not for instance think all white males are 'privileged' for instance, sort of hard to see someone on the streets or in poverty as 'privileged' and plenty of white people fall into that category.


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LoveNotHate
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11 Sep 2015, 4:30 am

visagrunt wrote:
While it's a poetic metaphor, social privilege doesn't lend itself to rigid analysis.

But there is absolutely no question in my mind that privilege exists.

Imagine that every person in your country were ranked on whatever scale you choose. Wealth is easy to understand--so you have a line up of the richest to the poorest people in your country. If you're struggling, perhaps you're three quarters of the way back in that line--in the 75th percentile.

But compare your quality of life in that position with the quality of life of a person who is in the 75th percentile in, say, Somalia. Or North Korea. Or India. That gap in quality of life is a representation of your national privilege.



The quality of life statistics are based on assumptions about what makes a person happier.

Most or all of them assume money/possessions means greater happiness.

So you are just assuming the answer to the question I posed.



LoveNotHate
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11 Sep 2015, 5:04 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Where do I sign up :D!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It maybe a tough job, but I am willing to take on all of that suffering caused by wealth because that's the charitable kinda guy I am!


Funny.

However, money may corrupt you in ways you don't foresee.

You are probably very familiar with stories about people who kill their spouse to avoid the financial settlement in a divorce. However, look at some of these other corruptions linked to money ...

- Af-flu-en-za 1. The bloated, sluggish and unfulfilled feeling that results from efforts to keep up with the Joneses.
- More money, less empathy
- cloud moral judgment
- linked with addiction.
- Money itself can become addictive (want more and more of it)
- drugs/alcohols/partying more accessible now, thus, so are the pitfalls of such.
- perceive the wealthy as "evil." (so people think less of you), so your relationships change
- Money only buys false happiness, not true happiness

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/0 ... 31905.html



LoveNotHate
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11 Sep 2015, 5:24 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
I dont get priviledge worth jack s**t, wtf is it I am an autistic hetersexual white male without the autism I would have that so called priviledge I would love that but I don't get it and get lumped in with non autistic hetero white males and expected to check my priviledge! WTF is it? Those same who lump me up make fun of autism and are ableists! People are god damned stupid!


You do have advantages, regardless of any disadvantages.

So would you feel better if you were told instead to, "Check your advantages"?



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11 Sep 2015, 5:56 am

I do not think the "privileged" are any more takers or prejudiced or hostile than those with less privilege. These things can just take different forms. People are people on the inside. Character determines how we react to our circumstances. People can be greedy and fight to hold onto whatever wealth they might have, regardless of how much of it they have.

The wealthy might extort, the poor might steal.

Privilege only means that those who have it have an advantage that they did not earn.
I am privileged - and very much so.
I grew up in a upper-middle class family in the USA with both my parents.
I had a good education and lots of musical opportunities.
I got to travel a little bit on family vacations.
I have had relatively good health my whole life, as has my family (for the most part.)
I'm smart and talented, and have been able to use my talent to make some money.

Does that mean I have no troubles? Of course not!
And there are plenty of people I know how have been much more privileged than I.
But that doesn't diminish my own privilege.

There is an old hymn that reminds us to "Count your blessings, count them one by one." This is a good idea for anyone, despite how much or little they have. I think about my blessings every day. They overshadow difficulties that I have. Even any autistic traits that I have, which have caused me problems, I see as a blessing for a number of reasons.

Privilege does not mean that I am now greedy and want to take advantage of others who have less than me. By saying I am privileged means that I acknowledge that I have some advantages that others don't have, and I didn't get them by my own merit. All those things I listed above are things I could do NOTHING about! I didn't choose when or where I was born, or into which family. I didn't choose my genes, I didn't choose my abilities. The only thing I did along the way is put in some effort into homework and practicing, and being diligent about trying to get work.

These privileges are a blessing, but I also am quite aware that while I have them that does not guarantee a wonderful life. I now have a great marriage and great kids. But what if one of them gets cancer or gets into a car accident? No amount of "privilege" eliminates the potential for great hardship.

I also USE my privilege to benefit others. Over 50% of my private students are on "scholarship" with me, which means that I am teaching them for much less than I "should" get paid. At times, I make only 25% of the going rate for private music instruction. I do this because I *DO* have a privilege to share with those who otherwise would not be able to afford music instruction. I am not *AFRAID* of being taken advantage of - I do this voluntarily. But, my talent and skill is STILL a privilege - an advantage I have that I did not earn, that someone else does not have.



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11 Sep 2015, 6:46 am

nerdygirl wrote:
Privilege only means that those who have it have an advantage that they did not earn.


Everything is earned though.

Nothing is free. There's always a cost.


For example, you may think "trust fund babies" of the super-rich do not earn their trust funds, however, they have to earn their inheritances by staying in good graces with their parents.



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11 Sep 2015, 6:51 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
Privilege only means that those who have it have an advantage that they did not earn.


Everything is earned though.

Nothing is free. There's always a cost.


For example, you may think "trust fund babies" of the super-rich do not earn their trust funds, however, they have to earn their inheritances by staying in good graces with their parents.

You paid a price to for your advantages.


I think you have an odd definition of "price to pay" and "earning."
How did I "earn" the family in which I was brought up? How did I earn the place and time into which I was born?

Some things are foundational privileges. Just by being an average American, I have many privileges over someone born in a third-world country. Instead of just trying to survive, I can spend time making music because my life is not consumed with attempting to make enough money just to eat.

I *do* think that those with a conscience will see privilege as carrying some responsibility with it.



naturalplastic
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11 Sep 2015, 6:52 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Where do I sign up :D!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It maybe a tough job, but I am willing to take on all of that suffering caused by wealth because that's the charitable kinda guy I am!


Funny.

However, money may corrupt you in ways you don't foresee.

You are probably very familiar with stories about people who kill their spouse to avoid the financial settlement in a divorce. However, look at some of these other corruptions linked to money ...

- Af-flu-en-za 1. The bloated, sluggish and unfulfilled feeling that results from efforts to keep up with the Joneses.
- More money, less empathy
- cloud moral judgment
- linked with addiction.
- Money itself can become addictive (want more and more of it)
- drugs/alcohols/partying more accessible now, thus, so are the pitfalls of such.
- perceive the wealthy as "evil." (so people think less of you), so your relationships change
- Money only buys false happiness, not true happiness

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/0 ... 31905.html


Like I said...sign me up!

I can handle a little "false happiness".



nerdygirl
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11 Sep 2015, 6:55 am

Let me list two privileges we all have here:

Literacy
Internet access

These are things that you either paid for yourself or were provided to you by the sharing of someone else's wealth (as in public education and a library.)



LoveNotHate
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11 Sep 2015, 7:07 am

nerdygirl wrote:
How did I "earn" the family in which I was brought up? How did I earn the place and time into which I was born?

"Family" and "place and time" is not an advantage.

Everyone has a "family" and "place and time".

nerdygirl wrote:
Let me list two privileges we all have here:

Literacy
Internet access

These are things that you either paid for yourself or were provided to you by the sharing of someone else's wealth (as in public education and a library.)

Literacy - is an advantage, but based on your definition, it's not a privilege, because people had to work hard at learning a language, and privileges are only unearned

Internet Access - could be either an advantage or disadvantage, people say it sucks the life out of them, makes them do less stuff outdoors, read books less, some people are killed because they hook up based on online contacts, or de-friend the wrong person on FB. Not a privilege based on your definition, because people had to work hard to get money to pay for this, so it's not unearned



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11 Sep 2015, 7:24 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
How did I "earn" the family in which I was brought up? How did I earn the place and time into which I was born?

"Family" and "place and time" is not an advantage.

Everyone has a "family" and "place and time".

nerdygirl wrote:
Let me list two privileges we all have here:

Literacy
Internet access

These are things that you either paid for yourself or were provided to you by the sharing of someone else's wealth (as in public education and a library.)

Literacy - is an advantage, but based on your definition, it's not a privilege, because people had to work hard at learning a language, and privileges are only unearned

Internet Access - could be either an advantage or disadvantage, people say it sucks the life out of them, makes them do less stuff outdoors, read books less, some people are killed because they hook up based on online contacts, or de-friend the wrong person on FB. Not a privilege based on your definition, because people had to work hard to get money to pay for this, so it's not unearned


I was wrong to say that privilege is "unearned." My basic premise is that wealth brings privilege, poverty does not. That is what I first said, and that is what I want to stick to.

I am privileged that I was born into a relatively wealthy family.

Literacy can only come about through education. Where did that education come from? It is a byproduct of wealth - someone's wealth. Either the person who bought the education, or the sharing of wealth.

How one uses privilege (like internet access or access to education) is their own business, but that does not diminish privilege.

Like I said, those with a conscience will see that privilege brings responsibility along with it. Internet access is a privilege. If some abuse that privilege, that's not a result of privilege. Education is a privilege. If someone chooses not to use it, that's their business.

We ARE privileged to be literate because SOME CANNOT LEARN. The capacity to learn how to read and write IS a privilege.



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11 Sep 2015, 7:31 am

nerdygirl wrote:
Let me list two privileges we all have here:

Literacy
Internet access

These are things that you either paid for yourself or were provided to you by the sharing of someone else's wealth (as in public education and a library.)


Public services aren't "someone else's" wealth, it's the wealth of society of which every person is a piece-- it's also necessary to have an amount of shared communal wealth or society itself can't function. This premise goes back well before written history when our nomadic ancestors shared a fire, shared food from a kill, and shared responsibility for the survival of the group.



nerdygirl
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11 Sep 2015, 7:40 am

Aristophanes wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
Let me list two privileges we all have here:

Literacy
Internet access

These are things that you either paid for yourself or were provided to you by the sharing of someone else's wealth (as in public education and a library.)


Public services aren't "someone else's" wealth, it's the wealth of society of which every person is a piece-- it's also necessary to have an amount of shared communal wealth or society itself can't function. This premise goes back well before written history when our nomadic ancestors shared a fire, shared food from a kill, and shared responsibility for the survival of the group.


There's that word - responsibility.

If one person in the group can't hunt due to a lack of mobility, he or she is benefiting from the privilege another has of being able to get around and hunt.

The person who CAN hunt *could* be greedy and not share with the group. Conscience guides the sharing.

What isn't gained cannot be shared. *Something* had to be gained by *someone* in order for any to benefit (whether the person himself or the person he shares with.) A fire cannot be shared without the gathering of wood. In this example, wood and the ability to gather it is the "wealth." Those who have the privilege of being able to gather it have the responsibility to share it.

This question of privilege, I believe, is at the root of the economic controversy in the US. *How much* responsibility do those with more privilege have for those who have less?