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Idealist
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16 Dec 2015, 6:09 am

androbot01 wrote:
Trump is getting so much support. He could win.


I will keep this very short, as I would very much like to see lunch time.

I normally don't care very much about American politics, and have never had anything more than a passing thought about any of it's former Presidents. This time around I'm of two very strong minds about the American Presidency.

If Trump becomes President it will be a massive boon for America, it with pave the way for a brighter, more prosperous future for all the Great Western Nations. In the short term however, my country (Scotland), will suffer immeasurably, and may not fully recover by the time America gets into a position where it can readily save us, and the rest of Europe, from the very real and serious Islamic threat.

If he fails, America will become a very ugly place to live, especially for Atheists and minority religions, those that will not have the collective unity to stand against, and weather incoming storm. However, the mounting bottleneck in Scotland will at last be broken. Millions of immigrants en-route to the United States, that got stuck on the last stepping stone, will finally continue their journey, spilling forth from our country like a great flash flood. We'll be left to pick up the broken pieces of our nation left in their wake, but in the short term, our survival would be guaranteed.


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16 Dec 2015, 6:58 am

Idealist wrote:
androbot01 wrote:
Trump is getting so much support. He could win.


I will keep this very short, as I would very much like to see lunch time.

I normally don't care very much about American politics, and have never had anything more than a passing thought about any of it's former Presidents. This time around I'm of two very strong minds about the American Presidency.

If Trump becomes President it will be a massive boon for America, it with pave the way for a brighter, more prosperous future for all the Great Western Nations. In the short term however, my country (Scotland), will suffer immeasurably, and may not fully recover by the time America gets into a position where it can readily save us, and the rest of Europe, from the very real and serious Islamic threat.

If he fails, America will become a very ugly place to live, especially for Atheists and minority religions, those that will not have the collective unity to stand against, and weather incoming storm. However, the mounting bottleneck in Scotland will at last be broken. Millions of immigrants en-route to the United States, that got stuck on the last stepping stone, will finally continue their journey, spilling forth from our country like a great flash flood. We'll be left to pick up the broken pieces of our nation left in their wake, but in the short term, our survival would be guaranteed.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say,Idealist. I'm not aware of any 'bottleneck' in Scotland or millions of immigrants en route to the US. Most immigrants have been bombed out of their homes in Syria and made it to Europe in small
boats.It's not as if they have the means to cross the Atlantic in those boats or by any other method.They will get
more social security and healthcare benefits in the UK than in the US anyway.
As far as I can see the the only bearing Trump has on Scotland is that his mother is Scottish and he has investments here.He's been disowned by the Scottish Government due to what they consider his racist and discriminatory statements, but if by some chance he was elected President he would have to be treated accordingly,especially as the US has nuclear weapons here.


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16 Dec 2015, 7:19 am

pluto wrote:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Idealist.


And yet you're quoting me... But it's fine.

I don't want to be talking too much about this subject, for a variety of reasons, but I will say this...

pluto wrote:
I'm not aware of any 'bottleneck' in Scotland or millions of immigrants en route to the US.


The 'bottleneck' won't fully coalesce until/if Trump is elected, but it is present now, if only because of the real threat that Trump will be elected, and they'll be deported, and won't make it back into our country.


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16 Dec 2015, 7:33 am

nurseangela wrote:
cathylynn wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You can make fun of Trump all you want, but he's winning in the poles, isn't he? I would vote for him in two seconds. After this last terrorist attack, the US should be closing all borders - at the very least - to all immigrants for the time being.



polls - more proof that trump has the uneducated vote.


I think you should look in the mirror because you're the uneducated one. I already corrected my mistake. Read before you make stupid comments.


Can we tone down the calling each other stupid comments. This topic seems to spark passion in people, which is understandable as it concerns the future of a superpower state. However, let's not descend into a quagmire of angry feelings.



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16 Dec 2015, 7:53 am

Trump, if elected, will bring us back to Medieval days.



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16 Dec 2015, 8:33 am

The US is willfully blind that we are a client state of Saudi Arabia not the other way around and they represent an existential threat to America and many other places. Whabbism the main ideology behind most Islamic terrorism is mostly financed by them especially the schools that teach it. The wife of the San Bernadino terror team spent a lot of time Saudi Arabia and of course the 9/11 hijackers were largly Saudi. Trump started to remind us last night during the debate that hundreds of of Bin Ladin family members were sent home in the days after 9/11 but seemed to realize he was going to a place that might kill him and noticably even to this body language impaired Aspie clam up.

Any realistic plan to stop Islamic terrorism must start with killing every member of the Saudi Royal Family, thier friends and blowing up as much of their assets as possible and that includes oil. That will be painful, but that is how it is when you quit a long time addiction.

Moussaoui Calls Saudi Princes Patrons of Al Qaeda


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16 Dec 2015, 9:32 am

frenchmanflats wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
frenchmanflats wrote:
Russia has expanding its influence into the middle Asian states. They have held joint naval exercises with China. Putin is clearly has mandated his military to re-arm and modernize their nuclear weapons. With Putin at the helm we cannot trust them. They have always cheated on every treaty we have signed with them. The Crimea has always been traditionally been Russian territory. We cannot neglect of "ally' with Saudi Arabia because the control the flow of oil to the West unless you want to pay $10 per gallon of gasoline.Concerning South Ossestia, Ossetian separatists committed the first act of violence when they blew up a Georgian military vehicle on August 1,2009, wounding five Georgian peacekeepers. During the evening, Georgian snipers retaliated by attacking the South Ossetian border checkpoints.Ossetian separatists began shelling Georgian villages on August 1 2009t, with a sporadic response from Georgian peacekeepers and other fighters in the region.Both during and after the war, South Ossetian authorities and irregular militia conducted a campaign of ethnic cleansing against Georgians in South Ossetia. Russia had no choice to step in. NATO still has a purpose especially reassuring our NATO allies in the Baltic States. They do not want to be under any foreign control ever again. It also keeps countries like Poland who never want to remain under Russian control by being apart of NATO


This doesn't answer many questions, Russians are evil because they're evil! We should neglect our "ally" Saudi Arabia because they're our ally! Very circular logic. Mikheil Saakashvili is a neocon tool and fugitive in his own country, he goes to Ukraine now to fight against the Russians. How long until Saakashvili is wanted in Ukraine? Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers and Russian citizens so Russia responded, that is the truth. Shellings happen all the time in these frozen conflicts, it is the Georgian military that launched the offensive into South Ossestia and fired upon UN-mandated Russian peacekeepers and Russia was completely justified in the amount of force it used and anything less would of only prolonged the conflict. It is a farce that our hearts bleed so much for the the self determination of Bosnians and Kosovars where many of the jihadists that want to kill us now cut their teeth back in the 90s because they oppose Serbia who is an ally of Russia but this principle of self determination does not apply anywhere where we the regime is our puppet. Crimea should have every right to declare their independence and joined their brothers in Russia, I believe that is the will of the people. Russia would be a better ally than foe, we have no reason to fight and plenty reason to work together.

The Saudis are waging economic war against the not only Russia but the US, they are directly attacking our ability to achieve energy independence and stop our "shale revolution". Cheap oil is nice for us as individuals but the Saudis profit margin is much much lower than most of the world's oil producing nations and shale is not profitable under $70 or so a barrel at this time but it is only a race against time until the costs of extraction are lowered to a competitive level and we rely more on alternate energies. The Saudis are flooding the market with their cheap oil, they could probably remain profitable at $20 a barrel but so the question is who can hold out longer. The Saudis are the source of all this terrorist filth, that is where almost all the hijackers on 9/11 came from, they spread their hateful anti-western Wahhabism world wide by funding extremist mosques and madrasas. Why should we fear the "Shia Crescent" again? What Shia terrorist groups have attacked America? There are none. It's the Sunnis, the Shia don't pose any threat with their hereditary hierarchical structure whereas anyone can be a Sunni imam and make fatwas if there are people that will listen to them. Iran poses zero threat to the United States whereas Saudi Arabia and Pakistan pose huge huge threats. Maybe we're taking the "keep your enemies" closer advice too literally.




The Saudis let us use their airbases.In fact there are three of them . In all of the Middle East there fourteen bases that the United States leases.Their airbases are with striking distance to Iran in case war go to with Iran. The country of Bahrain lets station the United States Navy Fifth Fleet is stationed their. Those ships also carry nuclear weapons in case of a war turns into a nuclear one.The US wants a presence in the Middle East because they do not an out of control race for nuclear weapons.The second reason is the United States needs the oil flowing. You are right, we turn a blind eye on their internal customs but its all about the dollars. The entire Saudi Arabian peninsula makes money and the Western oil companies make money. But that is life.Its all about the dollars.The Crimean has always been Russian territory. They are being watched by the Turks under the obligations of the Montreux Convention. I am sure they report the Black Sea fleet movements to NATO headquarters in Brussels. Even though the Russians lost the Crimean War, that war caused them to be more xenophobic. Putin is an old KGB agent who wants the old Soviet Union back and he is willing to do anything to rebuild it.


Yes, and do you know that those airbases in Saudi Arabia are/were one of the motivating factors behind 9/11 and so much of the Islamic terrorism since? We'd be better off leaving, the House of Saud has no redeeming qualities and they are not our friend. They do not want us on their holy land, the people did not want us there 1991 and especially not now. The Saudis Royals will bleed the country dry and then leave it a dry husk, we can't moralize other countries for their human rights abuses and come to every beck and call of Sauds.

They Turks will be destroyed, Putin does not have to do anything since he can just squeeze Turkey from Syria, the Kurds, Greece, Cyprus, and cause problems over in Armenia/Azerbaijan. No Americans will fight for Turkey, most would choose the Russians before they choose an ally of ISIS. If Erdogan isn't careful, Turkey will fall into Civil War and you can argue that it has already started. We will have to choose between the Turks who fund ISIS and the Kurds who fight them, I will go with the Kurds even the godless communist ones over any Islamist. Kurdistan is de facto reality in Iraq and Syria, it will be too in Turkey and maybe Iran(altho Iran has not persecuted the Kurds to near the same degree) It will be a masterstroke for Putin to combine forces of Hezbollah, Syria, Kurdistan, and Iran; Turkey's influence in the Middle East & NATO will be nullified and it will never join Europe. The Turks wanted to build an oil pipeline thru Syria but that's not going to happen anymore, they wanted it to go thru Qatar-Jordan-Syria-Turkey. Now this idea of the "Shia crescent" is scaring these Sunni Arab dictators, Iran has oil too and could build a pipeline thru Iraq and Syria. We can't win this sectarian conflict, it has been around for over a 1000 years but all I know is that Shia terrorists are not as war with the West and Sunni terrorists are. The hierarchical nature of Shia Islam prevents it's followers from doing violence in its name unless it is officially decreed and not just anybody can be an imam. Iranians, Syrians, Lebanese, the Shia in general seem like much more modern people compared to these Sunni Arab dictatorships. The Saudis are the main proponents of this arms race in the Middle East, they funded Pakistan's nuclear program and could have free access to it now if they really wanted to but we tell them they're under our nuclear umbrella too. There are so many Sunni Muslims in this world and we let these royal families of inbred Arab Bedouins represent the faith, no wonder this terrorist infestation is spreading. There are more Muslims in India, Indonesia, central Asia but they all get influences by the oil rich and two Holy Mosque occupying Saudis. The Saudis and the Arab Gulf states are the head of the snake, who needs enemies when you have friends like our's?



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16 Dec 2015, 10:07 am

Frankly, if Trump succeeds, something like the Inquisition could develop out of his policies.

Next thing he'll advocate: the expulsion of all Muslims if they don't convert to Christianity--ring any bells?

People like Trump because he's against the political establishment.

Just being AGAINST something doesn't offer any SOLUTIONS.



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16 Dec 2015, 10:11 am

Mr. Trump makes all of the other candidates look better. Even the lamest moderate GOP candidate looks better than Mr. Trump.


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16 Dec 2015, 10:39 am

If Trump actually gets the nomination, the Republicans will lose, point blank.

Getting criticized internationally, by people in diplomatic circles, does not bode well for someone.

This person, as President, will never be able to deal with world leaders with any sort of credibility.



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16 Dec 2015, 11:08 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Frankly, if Trump succeeds, something like the Inquisition could develop out of his policies.

Next thing he'll advocate: the expulsion of all Muslims if they don't convert to Christianity--ring any bells?

People like Trump because he's against the political establishment.

Just being AGAINST something doesn't offer any SOLUTIONS.


this is hyperbolic silliness

Trump is one of the few people speaking in specifics and it makes some people uncomfortable but it is a discussion that should be had, these are solutions just not ones you are prepared to accept. What solutions are Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio OR Hillary Clinton are advocating for? Amnesty and neoconservative foreign policy, whatever the big donors want. Hillary goes which ever way the wind goes, she was the original Trump in 2008 that tried to capitalize on the fears of working class whites in order to defeat Obama in the primary who had the minority and progressive left vote locked up. Now Hillary runs against everything she ever stood for, and stood against, and stood for, and so on and so on.

I don't agree with Trump's idea as I do not believe all Muslims in the world pose a threat to the United States but it is completely in our rights to decide who can and can't immigrate to this country and that has a long precedent that has been held up by the Supreme Court on more than one occasion. During the hostage crisis Jimmy Carter banned Iranians from entering the US and deported Iranian students, perhaps if he was more shrewd he would of forced a trade and maybe he wins reelection in 1980.

Cruz is probably more right about making it more country specific than something religious, it has the same effect but I don't think it would be wrong to only let in the Syrian refugees we want to let in(meaning the Christians and other minorities instead of those Sunni single young men "fleeing" ISIS out of Raqqa) because that is realistically where the threat comes from whether you admit it or not. Profiling is preferable to mass surveillance, we live in ugly ugly times but surrendering ourselves to the police state because that's the only we to keep us safe in a fair way is not something I have any interest in. Trump didn't even say permanently, he said until we can properly find a way to vet them which our own FBI director has said is impossible right now which to me makes sense. We shouldn't be molesting 90 year old grandmas and people in wheelchairs at the airport, it's all a giant politically correct farce. It's against our values to profile! What about habeas corpus, what about the 4th amendment, our privacy? Israel profiles and has borders, does it not work in that country? Why isn't Israel taking any of these friendly refugees by the way? Japan? South Korea? Ugh, basically the entire Arab Gulf which really doesn't make sense until you realize that those are enslaved peoples under these inbred royal families that suck all the wealth out of ground.

There is no military solution alone, there is no way to solve the issues of the Middle East that have existed since the dawn of man, we should stay out of these countries and mitigate our risk here at home. It is our policies that have destabilized the Middle East to where it is today, going back decades until now and more interference in the region is not going to all the sudden make things better and more likely will just compound the problem into something much worse as it indeed has. I certainly miss Gaddafi and Saddam, they are much preferable to jihadists and civil war and much easier to deal with. Getting rid of Assad would be a huge mistake, it's silly we get so high and mighty about these dictators and conveniently forget that Saudi Arabia is the worst one! We're not superheros, we can save the world but maybe we can save ourselves.

Don't make people choose between Hillary and Trump, you won't like the winner either way so in that scenario Trump could win. Trump would embarrass Hillary on the debate stage, I doubt she'd even participate, he'd do what he did to Jeb(who should be on a 24/7 suicide watch) to Hillary. Hillary doesn't dominate Trump in the polls, Trump has led and been neck and neck in many polls but the media wants this narrative that Trump is unelectable against Hillary when most polls show that he polls about even with the Republican field against her and if Trump can turn out his working class white support and win in places like Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan then he will be president. Hispanic voters have already abandoned the GOP so Trump has about the same support Mitt Romney or John McCain but maybe more since there are Hispanics who are strongly against illegal immigration as well. The great Mexican-American labor activist Cesar Chavez and his UFW were the first Minuteman group on our border, he wanted all illegals deported and had his group physically attack them to prevent from crossing our border. Making this about race is very dishonest and a classic leftist tactic of deflection; economics, security, our culture are all important issues that we're not really allowed to talk about in this time of this "politically correct" totalitarian language control.



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16 Dec 2015, 11:41 am

I don't care if I seem hyperbolic. I really fear the day when Trump will assume the Presidency.

Just because somebody is AGAINST something doesn't make someone viable.

Just because he is an "alternative" doesn't make him someone viable. Hitler was an "alternative," too.

He has to offer viable solutions. He offers simplistic solutions, plus he's losing credibility in the international community. He talks nonsense.

I'm no "bleeding heart." But I don't like the idea of somebody excluding a whole religion for "national security" reasons.

Spain did the same thing with the Jews in 1492--in the interest of "national security."

The United States, contrary to many opinions, cannot be an isolationist entity in the world. We live in the world. We have to adapt to the world.



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16 Dec 2015, 11:45 am

Despite what Cesar Chavez believed, to many of Trump's supporters, this is a racial matter, especially among the openly racist element among his following.
And incidentally, is it to be believed that millions of Americans are just chewing at the bit so they can work as migrant workers? Hours are long, the work is oppressively hard, and the pay is unacceptably low. Illegals take those kind of jobs because Americans won't do them.
As for the notion that foreigners are taking away our jobs - no, it's big business who are giving them away. The enemy is not the desperately poor undocumented Mexican worker, or the slave labor in China, but the greedy, cheap captain of industry who holds unelected power over all of us.


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16 Dec 2015, 12:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't care if I seem hyperbolic. I really fear the day when Trump will assume the Presidency.

Just because somebody is AGAINST something doesn't make someone viable.

Just because he is an "alternative" doesn't make him someone viable. Hitler was an "alternative," too.

He has to offer viable solutions. He offers simplistic solutions, plus he's losing credibility in the international community. He talks nonsense.

I'm no "bleeding heart." But I don't like the idea of somebody excluding a whole religion for "national security" reasons.

Spain did the same thing with the Jews in 1492--in the interest of "national security."

The United States, contrary to many opinions, cannot be an isolationist entity in the world. We live in the world. We have to adapt to the world.


Who else is offering solutions let alone viable solutions? Hillary has no credibility in foreign affairs, she was the worst Secretary of State of all time and if our laws are fair should end up in prison. Bernie Sanders is pretty much a one issue candidate and refuses to talk about anything else, he could be interesting if he spoke more authoritatively on the subject but politically the Democrats want a Warrior-in-Chief just as much as the Republicans and Hillary is the biggest neocon they have after Joe Lieberman. I suspect Bernie probably is somewhat more reasonable than the average Democrat on the subject but he isn't Dennis Kucinich or Cynthia McKinney, he's more of a controlled opposition who is despite being an "independent" is for the most part beholden to his party leadership. Hillary doesn't take a position on anything without months of polling, she's an incompetent and a criminal that stands for nothing to boot.

Trump wants to deny entry to non-citizen Muslims until we can, in his words, "properly vet them." That is his stated position, not to ban Islam or to deport all Muslim. Legally it is our right to decide who does and does not enter this country, I would restrict and reduce immigration across the board then pick/choose which refugees I see fit. Christians, Druze, Shia, Alawites, secularists for whatever reason, probably aren't much of a threat and have a better chance of integrating. Trump said he wants to "shut down parts of the internet" which sounds like censorship but what he is talking about is shutting down or "infiltrating" the internet in the areas of Syria and Iraq which ISIS controls, I do believe we have the technology for this and we likely saw an example of this in North Korea last year when they got blamed for that Sony hack. How effective will this in combating ISIS supporters and recruiters online? Probably not a terrible amount since so many ISIS supporters are from the West but it would probably mess their logistics up on the ground. We could probably send them back to the stone age if we wanted to with some sort of EMP, they might actually like that however. If we are to fight these terrorists then we must fight to win, surrendering to the police state and accepting this as the new normal is not the answer.



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16 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Despite what Cesar Chavez believed, to many of Trump's supporters, this is a racial matter, especially among the openly racist element among his following.
And incidentally, is it to be believed that millions of Americans are just chewing at the bit so they can work as migrant workers? Hours are long, the work is oppressively hard, and the pay is unacceptably low. Illegals take those kind of jobs because Americans won't do them.
As for the notion that foreigners are taking away our jobs - no, it's big business who are giving them away. The enemy is not the desperately poor undocumented Mexican worker, or the slave labor in China, but the greedy, cheap captain of industry who holds unelected power over all of us.


Americans don't do those jobs because these businesses skirt American labor laws with essentially scab workers, it hurts our most poor and disadvantaged while benefiting the very rich. I do not see exploiting illegal labor as compassionate and we don't owe anybody in any other country a 1st world life, we have to worry about our own. The greedy cheap captain of industry IS EXACTLY WHO SUPPORTS INCREASED IMMIGRATION, legal and illegal. Not everybody believes the propaganda that immigration is always a net positive, maybe for those on top but for us on the bottom it will destroy our quality and way of life.

As for Trump having racist supporters, so does Hillary and Bernie, so does everyone. This is a silly leftist tactic, you shouldn't repudiate anybody as its a never ending game they use to discredit you that would never be used against them. It's silly, you can control who supports you. Even ISIS and al-Qaeda have given endorsements.

Actually, James O'Keefe started something of a trend of by Conservative activists using the same manipulative moralizing emotionalism that the left uses and oh do THEY HATE IT!