What if Obama really forged his birth Birth Certificate?

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pluto
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17 Dec 2015, 5:06 pm

I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.

Here are some people who don't qualify as American under the birthplace rule -

Isaac Asimov (Russian)
Jackson Browne (German)
LeVar Burton (German)
Lou Diamond Phillips (Filipino)
Bob Hope (English)
Mila Kunis (Ukrainian)
John Mahoney (English)
Tia & Tamera Mowry (German)
Natalie Portman (Israeli)
Victoria Principal (Japanese)
Jeri Ryan (German)
Gene Simmons (Israeli)
Bruce Willis (German)

I don't envy the person who has to tell Bruce Willis he doesn't qualify as a true American under this rule !


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Kraichgauer
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17 Dec 2015, 6:33 pm

pluto wrote:
I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.

Here are some people who don't qualify as American under the birthplace rule -

Isaac Asimov (Russian)
Jackson Browne (German)
LeVar Burton (German)
Lou Diamond Phillips (Filipino)
Bob Hope (English)
Mila Kunis (Ukrainian)
John Mahoney (English)
Tia & Tamera Mowry (German)
Natalie Portman (Israeli)
Victoria Principal (Japanese)
Jeri Ryan (German)
Gene Simmons (Israeli)
Bruce Willis (German)

I don't envy the person who has to tell Bruce Willis he doesn't qualify as a true American under this rule !


But weren't most of these people army brats, born to American parents (I understand Bruce Willis' mom was German, but his dad was an American)?


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naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2015, 6:46 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
pluto wrote:
I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.

Here are some people who don't qualify as American under the birthplace rule -

Isaac Asimov (Russian)
Jackson Browne (German)
LeVar Burton (German)
Lou Diamond Phillips (Filipino)
Bob Hope (English)
Mila Kunis (Ukrainian)
John Mahoney (English)
Tia & Tamera Mowry (German)
Natalie Portman (Israeli)
Victoria Principal (Japanese)
Jeri Ryan (German)
Gene Simmons (Israeli)
Bruce Willis (German)

I don't envy the person who has to tell Bruce Willis he doesn't qualify as a true American under this rule !


But weren't most of these people army brats, born to American parents (I understand Bruce Willis' mom was German, but his dad was an American)?


Doesnt matter.

The Constution doesnt spell out anything about the citizenship status of the parents.

They werent born "in the USA". That what the Constitution demands. Obama's opponent John McCain was an airforce brat born in the Canal Zone. So in theory he would have run afoul of the wording of the Constitutional rule.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 17 Dec 2015, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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17 Dec 2015, 6:56 pm

I would bet that being a child of US military personnel would be an exception.



naturalplastic
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17 Dec 2015, 7:08 pm

Youd think. But that has to be legislated. The Constitution doesnt say anything about that. The US was an upstart breakaway country without any foreign bases yet when the Founding Fathers were doing their founding.


The amusing thing is that it could be argued that the first nine US Presidents all violated the rule because all nine( though born in what are now U.S. States) were born "in a foreign country" since the first nine were each born before the US existed as a nation yet.

Our tenth president, Tyler, was the first president born after the declaration of Independence in 1776 (if you consider that the Nation's birth), and he was also the first born after the ratification of the Constitution in 1789 (if you consider that our b-day).

At president number 12, Zachary Taylor (b. 1784), we reverted to a president born after the DOI, but before the Constitution. Then after that reversal at president number 12 we resumed having only presidents actually born unambiguously as U.S. citizens rather than born as subjects of the British Crown.



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18 Dec 2015, 12:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
How are they going to prosecute executives in the companies they are bailing out? Convictions happen based on mostly or solely on circumstantial evidence everyday. They did not really want to prosecute. You could of gotten gotten of jurors that want to convict these executives.

The economy is running on stretched out credit, tax loopholes, and accounting tricks anything but fundamentally sound.

But you are 30 so you probably do not remember an economy where a job was available to most who wanted one, and most of the jobs you did not have to worry about bieng laid off once you got a few years in with a company and did not have to worry about retirement or benefits for the most part. So the 2015 economy probably does seem good to you.


The economic situation where jobs were once so plentiful was back during my childhood. My dad had a good paying, steady job with great benefits and vacation time, my mom didn't have to work, and we enjoyed a middle class lifestyle. I don't recall my dad ever having been laid off. My employment history, filled with layoffs and long periods of unemployment, bears no resemblance to what I had known when growing up. The change came with that demigod of the right, Ronny Raygun, who made the bad guys out to be union guys like my dad who were only looking for the American dream for themselves and their families. The real villains aren't illegals, or union members, or poor people needing assistance, but Raygun's worshipers, and their masters in the business community.

You forgot Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh since I'm sure they had a hand in what you think has caused your misery.
More reminiscing about the good old days from you. Does it ever get old? Economic swings and periods of high unemployment have plagued us for several generations. It's not solely some kind of a post-Raygun blight.

When the US was manufacturing the consumer widgets that Asia is doing now you all complained about what the factories in the US were doing to the environment. If all TV's were to be made in the US again and what is now a $400 TV becomes a $1000 TV guess who'd complain the loudest?



Pretty long economic downswing, don't you think? How many decades has it been? And when is that upswing supposed to just miraculously appear?
And by the way, if corporate America kept up wages, then workers could afford those $1000 dollar TV's!


Yeah, right; we've been in famine since the 80's. We live on rats and sawdust bread and sometimes... on each other. At night, the pyres for the dead light up the sky. It's medieval! :roll:

If people are so poor these days it sure isn't evident by the way the average citizen throws money around.


Quote:
As for your previous post addressed to me concerning people allegedly faking disabilities - - what Sweetleaf said.
And you and Sweetleaf automatically think it's specifically about the two of you...


That's the go to explanation used by conservatives every time. No, Americans are for the most part not starving, but they are definitely working longer hours for less pay, and less or no benefits, and thus the economy in it's whole suffers for lack of disposable income in the hands of American workers. America is not the job market it had been in my father's time, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better any time soon.

Employers will pay whatever people are will work for, sometimes a little more. I don't see, from a practical standpoint, why that would change.
You can't convince me that people don't waste money. Older people of the generation you think had it so well were products of the great depression and WW2 era so they and thier offspring were by nature much more thrifty than the current crop. People want everything at once now and refuse to sacrifice other things for it. I have two cousins that have gone bankrupt in their early/mid 20's because of careless i want this, i want that kid in a candy store spending. I know several others that are not relatives that have done the same. Call me an anachronism but I live within my means.

Quote:
As for your second point - I'm not on disability, though I suspect I would qualify.
If you've already proven you can hold a job it would be hard to justify honestly. Really, do you even try any more?

Quote:
Regardless, I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone in need of help.

Believe it or not so do I. However, I believe in separating those in NEED of help from the work evasion cases who WANT help but won't help themselves.

Quote:
I don't buy that crap that people on disability are faking it, regardless of how many times Rand Paul or Ted Cruz repeats it.

Yeah, sure; everyone on disability is legit and no one would ever dream of faking it for a free ride. Maybe on your planet but not on mine. :roll: :roll:

Whatever, but I doubt it would even be practical or even advisable to attempt to cull out the slackers. The clumsy bureaucratic government workers tasked with it would end up tossing out those in actual need and keeping most of the ones they are supposed to be weeding out.


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Kraichgauer
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19 Dec 2015, 3:08 am

^^^
Whatever. I'm drunk now, so I could care less. May Krampus visit you on Christmas!


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blauSamstag
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19 Dec 2015, 11:56 am

pluto wrote:
I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.


After the revolutionary war there was a very realistic concern that some english aristocrat might come over, spend big on campaigning, and essentially turn the USA into a client state of the british empire.

The great thing about our system of law is that we can modify it through acts of congress. There are numerous laws on the books that grant "natural born" status to people who weren't physically born within our borders.

There are at least two laws that make McCain eligible.

Even if obama was born in kenya, which would have made him a subject of the queen of england, he would still qualify as natural born under the same law that qualifies Ted Cruz, who was born in canada.



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19 Dec 2015, 8:25 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
pluto wrote:
I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.


After the revolutionary war there was a very realistic concern that some english aristocrat might come over, spend big on campaigning, and essentially turn the USA into a client state of the british empire.

The great thing about our system of law is that we can modify it through acts of congress. There are numerous laws on the books that grant "natural born" status to people who weren't physically born within our borders.

There are at least two laws that make McCain eligible.

Even if obama was born in kenya, which would have made him a subject of the queen of england, he would still qualify as natural born under the same law that qualifies Ted Cruz, who was born in canada.


You have to wonder if the same people who think Obama is ineligible to be President, because of his imagined Kenyan birth, wouldn't give Cruz's Canadian birth a second thought.


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19 Dec 2015, 9:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Whatever. I'm drunk now, so I could care less.
You do that a lot. Sobriety with you seems to be rather infrequent so instead of informing us when you're drunk, why not inform us when you're sober?
.
Quote:
May Krampus visit you on Christmas!

Another way of saying I hit the nail on the head and you have no comeback.

Cheers...
Image


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19 Dec 2015, 9:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
pluto wrote:
I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.


After the revolutionary war there was a very realistic concern that some english aristocrat might come over, spend big on campaigning, and essentially turn the USA into a client state of the british empire.

The great thing about our system of law is that we can modify it through acts of congress. There are numerous laws on the books that grant "natural born" status to people who weren't physically born within our borders.

There are at least two laws that make McCain eligible.

Even if obama was born in kenya, which would have made him a subject of the queen of england, he would still qualify as natural born under the same law that qualifies Ted Cruz, who was born in canada.


You have to wonder if the same people who think Obama is ineligible to be President, because of his imagined Kenyan birth, wouldn't give Cruz's Canadian birth a second thought.


The law is the law and we can't have a foreign born president, regardless of the party.


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blauSamstag
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19 Dec 2015, 10:08 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
pluto wrote:
I've always been bemused by the ruling that Presidents must be born on American soil.After all,we don't have any choice in where we are born,only where we choose to live.


After the revolutionary war there was a very realistic concern that some english aristocrat might come over, spend big on campaigning, and essentially turn the USA into a client state of the british empire.

The great thing about our system of law is that we can modify it through acts of congress. There are numerous laws on the books that grant "natural born" status to people who weren't physically born within our borders.

There are at least two laws that make McCain eligible.

Even if obama was born in kenya, which would have made him a subject of the queen of england, he would still qualify as natural born under the same law that qualifies Ted Cruz, who was born in canada.


You have to wonder if the same people who think Obama is ineligible to be President, because of his imagined Kenyan birth, wouldn't give Cruz's Canadian birth a second thought.


The law is the law and we can't have a foreign born president, regardless of the party.



The law is the law. And there are numerous laws stating how people who are foreign born can be president, depending on circumstances.



Kraichgauer
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20 Dec 2015, 12:32 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Whatever. I'm drunk now, so I could care less.
You do that a lot. Sobriety with you seems to be rather infrequent so instead of informing us when you're drunk, why not inform us when you're sober?
.
Quote:
May Krampus visit you on Christmas!

Another way of saying I hit the nail on the head and you have no comeback.

Cheers...
Image


How about I be sober when you're polite.


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20 Dec 2015, 1:31 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Whatever. I'm drunk now, so I could care less.
You do that a lot. Sobriety with you seems to be rather infrequent so instead of informing us when you're drunk, why not inform us when you're sober?
.
Quote:
May Krampus visit you on Christmas!

Another way of saying I hit the nail on the head and you have no comeback.


How about I be sober when you're polite.

1. Show me where and how I was impolite.
2. Why let someone else control your sobriety?


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Kraichgauer
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20 Dec 2015, 2:33 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
^^^
Whatever. I'm drunk now, so I could care less.
You do that a lot. Sobriety with you seems to be rather infrequent so instead of informing us when you're drunk, why not inform us when you're sober?
.
Quote:
May Krampus visit you on Christmas!

Another way of saying I hit the nail on the head and you have no comeback.


How about I be sober when you're polite.

1. Show me where and how I was impolite.
2. Why let someone else control your sobriety?


1. If you need proof of your lack of politeness, just reexamine your post directed at me.
2. Good point.


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