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30 Dec 2015, 3:16 pm

Perhaps their failure to become the OP's accessory results from a twinge of conscience. They will go only so far to carry on the fiction.



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30 Dec 2015, 11:14 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
alex wrote:
Most people are lazy in general (rich and poor). It's not specific to one class.

There are plenty of hard-working poor people and plenty of hard working rich people too. I don't think income has much to do with levels of laziness.


But if the poor people are not willing to defend themselves from attacks from the rich people, claiming they are just lazy = low income, no matter how much they think this is a wrong statement, would you not say that such people are lazy?

I agree with you. There are poor people who work a lot, yet stay working poor. In my opinion, they should engage in labor unions, and fight the injustice politically and not vote right wing. But many of them they stay away from labor unions and don't vote at all.


I don't know that it's really lazy not to go out of your way to defend yourself on the internet from a bunch of people that wont listen to you anyways. I mean I've certainly posted comments here and other sites disagreeing with those kinds of generalizations, even posted an informal thing about food stamp myths....but it can get tiresome so much of the time if I see threads perpetuating the negative generalizations about the poor I just avoid the thread if I am not in the mood to defend myself against a bunch of ignorance or am not up for the negativity.


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30 Dec 2015, 11:29 pm

if it were me, i'd be hesitant to post on that sort of forum where i'd be sure to be called a lazy fake.



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30 Dec 2015, 11:33 pm

i've never met a lazy person. my mom gave up working as a nurse, because every time she had to work an extra few minutes, my dad would be very jealous and verbally abusive. she gave up on cleaning house often because she was a perfectionist and didn't see the point of doing a lesser job. there's always (in my experience) an underlying reason for seeming laziness.



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31 Dec 2015, 4:53 am

cathylynn wrote:
i've never met a lazy person. my mom gave up working as a nurse, because every time she had to work an extra few minutes, my dad would be very jealous and verbally abusive. she gave up on cleaning house often because she was a perfectionist and didn't see the point of doing a lesser job. there's always (in my experience) an underlying reason for seeming laziness.


Yes, lazy is quite a loaded word. People are often disinterested for a reason. Sometimes doing things brings little payoff, and not taking part, a sane choice.


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InsomniaGrl
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31 Dec 2015, 4:58 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
alex wrote:
Most people are lazy in general (rich and poor). It's not specific to one class.

There are plenty of hard-working poor people and plenty of hard working rich people too. I don't think income has much to do with levels of laziness.


But if the poor people are not willing to defend themselves from attacks from the rich people, claiming they are just lazy = low income, no matter how much they think this is a wrong statement, would you not say that such people are lazy?

I agree with you. There are poor people who work a lot, yet stay working poor. In my opinion, they should engage in labor unions, and fight the injustice politically and not vote right wing. But many of them they stay away from labor unions and don't vote at all.


I don't know that it's really lazy not to go out of your way to defend yourself on the internet from a bunch of people that wont listen to you anyways. I mean I've certainly posted comments here and other sites disagreeing with those kinds of generalizations, even posted an informal thing about food stamp myths....but it can get tiresome so much of the time if I see threads perpetuating the negative generalizations about the poor I just avoid the thread if I am not in the mood to defend myself against a bunch of ignorance or am not up for the negativity.


I agree, just because people on the forum did not go out of their way to bolster the political statements made by the OP does not make the lazy. Disinterest is not always the mark of laziness. The cause of what is perceived as laziness, is usually too big, to lump it into one word, laziness.


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beakybird
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31 Dec 2015, 7:34 am

Despondency from a lifetime of failure, sadness and struggle will tend to do that to people.

Also, there's many people (self-included) that simply don't believe any political pandering of any kind actually helps anything. With so little motivation and mental energy to go around, it's best saved for things that directly impact my day to day survival.

However on the other hand if the request is small it should be done if someone is going out of their way for a cause that would potentially support you personally, even if they feel like no one will care and it's a waste of time.

Not everyone can muster the "you'll never know until you try" mentality. I know that's a really, really hard one for me personally.

People too often assume that no ambition=lazy. This is simply not true. May of these "lazy" people would show great ambition if presented with an opportunity to do something that they actually care about in an environment that didn't render them emotionally catatonic. I've been called lazy many times, or had it inferred about me, because I have such a narrow band of interests and it's extremely challenging for me to care about something that isn't within that narrow band.

Then there's the fact that many people lack persistence because they lack the critical ability to properly process failures. When learning something new, failure is inevitable, and actually beneficial for the end goal for learning something new. However many people (self included) cannot deal with the discomfort of failure very easily. This makes someone get very easily discouraged and appear lazy. But being discouraged and bored does not make fertile ground for things like ambition and motivation to grow.



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31 Dec 2015, 9:11 am

Have you read Walden? It's possible to reach a high level of satisfaction by working enough for subsistence, then doing things that are more valuable to you in your ample spare time. Being relatively poor by western standards is not always a bad thing, provided you have the basics.

Maybe some of the (western) poor people have, like Diogenes, decided to dedicate themselves more to their mental life rather than material acquisition. Repetitive labor can also free the mind to concentrate on other things. I know a guy who chose to work as a low paid security guard because it gave him the opportunity to read many books.

Poverty is less great if you're mad and living on the streets, or you're on the welfare cycle faced with constant disciplining from government bureaucrats, or something like that.



Last edited by Nebogipfel on 31 Dec 2015, 10:38 am, edited 15 times in total.

sly279
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31 Dec 2015, 9:20 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
alex wrote:
Most people are lazy in general (rich and poor). It's not specific to one class.

There are plenty of hard-working poor people and plenty of hard working rich people too. I don't think income has much to do with levels of laziness.


But if the poor people are not willing to defend themselves from attacks from the rich people, claiming they are just lazy = low income, no matter how much they think this is a wrong statement, would you not say that such people are lazy?

I agree with you. There are poor people who work a lot, yet stay working poor. In my opinion, they should engage in labor unions, and fight the injustice politically and not vote right wing. But many of them they stay away from labor unions and don't vote at all.


I don't know that it's really lazy not to go out of your way to defend yourself on the internet from a bunch of people that wont listen to you anyways. I mean I've certainly posted comments here and other sites disagreeing with those kinds of generalizations, even posted an informal thing about food stamp myths....but it can get tiresome so much of the time if I see threads perpetuating the negative generalizations about the poor I just avoid the thread if I am not in the mood to defend myself against a bunch of ignorance or am not up for the negativity.



Yep constantly having to defend yourself from people who won't care and will always counter despit your logic based facts is quite tiresome. It's also like having aspergers, why tell people if they don't know.



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31 Dec 2015, 10:31 am

beakybird wrote:
People too often assume that no ambition=lazy. This is simply not true. May of these "lazy" people would show great ambition if presented with an opportunity to do something that they actually care about in an environment that didn't render them emotionally catatonic. I've been called lazy many times, or had it inferred about me, because I have such a narrow band of interests and it's extremely challenging for me to care about something that isn't within that narrow band.


From the social hierarchy to you: Your wants and needs are irrelevant because you have no power. You must conform to what the group wants because the group has power, thus their wants are more important than yours. The group doesn't need you unless you provide what the group wants. If you can't fit with that group you need to change to fit with another. If you can't conform to any groups then you're inferior and need to go, society = social skills: they are the only skills that matter.

sly279 wrote:
Yep constantly having to defend yourself from people who won't care and will always counter despit your logic based facts is quite tiresome. It's also like having aspergers, why tell people if they don't know.

Social creatures don't care about logic, they care about emotional satisfaction because emotions are the main drivers of social interaction. Facts are cumbersome, difficult to find and prove, and even harder to make other people understand, it's much easier for the social creature to tell you "you're stupid" and move on to someone that gives them the emotional validation they want. 6,000 years of history has taught me that social creatures will consistently make short term decisions based on emotional validation that have long term negative consequences over sound long term decisions that provide no short term emotional validation.



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31 Dec 2015, 10:56 am

What's wrong with not agreeing with something? That's the way of the world; people can't always agree with other people.

It's better to make the effort to state your case (without insulting someone, cursing, etc), than to stubbornly refuse to offer your opinion on the matter.



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31 Dec 2015, 4:45 pm

I don't think poor people are lazy, I find them to be very hard working because they have to work harder than the rich and middle class people to survive to stay out of the streets.

About them not defending themselves, you get tired of doing it after a while so you quit caring what they think because you have tried to educate people about what it's like to be poor and people just don't listen so you give up and let them go on with their ignorance.


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01 Jan 2016, 2:54 am

As for the question put forth by the OP; that's like asking if rich people are lazy. In both cases, the answer would be, some very probably, but not true for others. No one group should be generalized, even if they are disenfranchised and powerless, and unable to respond, like the poor.


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01 Jan 2016, 5:28 am

These claim to be.


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01 Jan 2016, 5:37 am

I am poor. I am both lazy and a hard worker, depending on the subject. I am actually more hard working than the average person, but easily discouraged. I will work for hours without a break, for food, water, or a rest, because the work consumes me. Then I will collapse when my body gives out.

I prefer to work this way on many days.



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01 Jan 2016, 5:41 am

I would say that the "poor" are not a homogeneous group, they are not all the same. People are poor for different reasons there is no one size fits all explanation for being poor. Maybe the OP needs to get some more life experience, I used to work in a factory with "working class" people. I would say that a lifetime of working there would be a harder life in terms of physical conditions than a "middle class" job.

After having worked as a low paid industrial worker, my view of "working class" people and areas changed a lot. Trust me poor people are normal humans.


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