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Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Age: 40
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Location: North Wayels

25 Jan 2016, 7:43 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Hopper wrote:
Weird, isn't it? It's almost as though members from the UK who post in this thread have no actual legislative power in the running of the UK.

It's also almost as though the people from the UK who post here do not necessarily endorse their government's attitude to and treatment of refugees, and perhaps might be involved in campaigns against this attitude and treatment.

It's further almost as though what Trump has said on the matter of immigration and refugees and Muslims may be criticised on its own terms, without having to come from a place of historical purity or a moral high ground.

I have not seen any attempt at a moral high ground in this thread. Could you quote such?

"In what way have these rights been attacked? They apply only in regard to the actions of the US government. Trumps right to free speech is no more under attack were he banned from the UK for what he's said..."

Except, in this country (yours too?), unless you're preaching armed sedition (or some such), the United States will not ban you from entry. We feel the mere farce of Parliamentary discussion as though this were a serious manner is offensive. How could you (we) know this watching TV, movies, and online chats? We can't, which means sometimes friction develops between cultures (thank goodness we don't need to bomb each other).

So, unless someone has a major change of heart Trump's not to be banned, so everyone happy? I know I am.

That bit in quote marks - was that meant to be a 'moral high ground' thing? That was in response to your saying Trump's First Amendment rights were being attacked. The First Amendment is only in regard to the US government. Every country in the world other than the US could ban Trump from entering and indeed order a blanket ban on reporting of what he's said - his First Amendment rights would still not be affected. Do you see?

And it is a serious matter. Trump talks an awful lot of s**t, and could well end up POTUS. Some of us here in the 51st state - I live in Wales - are a bit anxious about that.

From the article the OP cites and links to:

Parliamentary power, however, isn't required to impose the "persona non grata" label. Home Secretary Theresa May can ban anyone who's been convicted of a crime and sent to prison or has broken immigration rules. If they are coming from outside the European Economic Area (the EU plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway), she can ban them if she considers their presence in the UK to be nonconducive to the public good.

In 2011, the U.S. pastor Terry Jones, who planned a Quran-burning protest, was barred on those grounds. Others who have been barred include Hamas MP Yunis Al-Astal, Jewish extremist Mike Guzovsky and ex-Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard Stephen "Don" Black.


A petition to ban Trump was started by Suzanne Kelly, a freelance journalist in Aberdeen, Scotland, where Trump owns a nearby golf course and is a divisive figure. She was angry over Trump's call to ban Muslims from entering the United States. Kelly's petition clearly hit a nerve, as it quickly gained enough signatures to be put forward as a topic of debate in Parliament. More than 575,000 people have signed it.

The debate is nonbinding, though. No vote of any kind will be held, so there will be no substantive result. In fact, opposition lawmaker Paul Flynn, who's leading the debate, thinks a ban could be counterproductive, as it could make Trump seem unfairly victimized and boost him in the eyes of Americans.


There's no sign the home secretary will ban Trump, but that doesn't mean she agrees with him. She has said his remarks in relation to Muslims are divisive, unhelpful and wrong, but the government has also said that exclusion powers are very serious and are not to be used lightly.

Prime Minister David Cameron doesn't support the ban, even though he called Trump's proposal to keep Muslims out of the United States "divisive, stupid and wrong." For good measure, he added, "If he came to visit our country, I think he would unite us all against him." ... ngdom-ban/

Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.


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Joined: 5 Apr 2007
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Location: London

25 Jan 2016, 7:54 pm

Get your facts right ZenDen. It was the British Empire not the English Empire. At the height of the East India Company half of the administrators in the company were Scottish, in fact that was one of the conditions of the Act of Union that they would have access to the empire. All of the European nations and the US were at it.

Breaking News: None of us were born then! None of us had anything to do with that.

The Irish famine was cause by blight, due to lack of biodiversity of potatoes. They had one variety the Lumper. The corn laws didn't help, but many English people opposed those laws.

Btw what makes you think Americans are any better> We have people today arguing in favour of protectionism just like then. Have you considered that the combination of that protectionism, whist insisting other countries don't follow in that example, is causing poverty?

The English civil war killed more English than any conflict before and since, and Cromwell was deeply unpopular, that is why the republic didn't last.

I went an American school for 2 years and I was shocked how poorly both American and World history was taught. Not at all objective, opinion taught as fact. That may have been just the education board. I'm sure some are better then others. I wonder, if I still have the text books somewhere.

I feel that a lot of the time people are just parroting a narrative they have been taught, which is probably why you don't understand the difference between UK and English. You are still stuck in 1776.

From the late 80s onward section of the Irish American community became badly out of touch with development in Irish / British relations. There is a great play on the subject called the The Big Fellah.

Also they never rely understood the the Protestant Unionists in Northern Ireland have Scottish (Presbyterian) ancestry not English.

Harper is in North Wales, I think. My surname is Welsh (I'm English with Welsh ancestry).

I see through your obvious anti-English bias. I can't take you seriously. If you want to get hot and brother over nothing be my guest. No skin off my back.

Be offended all you like. You have freedom to be offended. You don't have freedom not to be offended.

Last edited by 0_equals_true on 25 Jan 2016, 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Age: 23
Posts: 152
Location: York, England

25 Jan 2016, 7:55 pm

>Trump calls to ban Muslims in America
>Let's ban trump from England
>Definitely no hypocrisy there

Is this the level of idiocy, incompetence and petty spitefulness I'll be forced to live my entire adult life in? :oops:

Such is life, that expressing yourself and the truth has you berated.