Why is it so hard being conservative anywhere?

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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 2:04 am

Mikah wrote:
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And America is the spiritual successor of the Soviet Union? Really? How so?


Weakening of marriage, the two parent family and particular hostility to parental authority.
Massive state education program designed to socially engineer, not educate.
Atheism fashionable, open hostility to the Christian faith.
Foolish notions of human equality especially gender equality permeating everything.
No respect for privacy, mass surveillance carried out on citizens for no good reason.
High taxation and welfare, citizens increasingly dependent on government.
State propaganda, manipulation of statistics.
Social justice.
Every important institution is run by left wing utopians who seek to change man to fit into their new world.

There's more, people concerned about these things love to point out how America has fulfilled much of the original communist manifesto, can google that if you please. It isn't exactly like the Soviet Union, but I think spiritual successor is a reasonable description, especially when compared to Russia today.

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That Anti-Marxist state rising out of the ashes of the old Soviet Union is increasingly becoming authoritarian, and hardly represents the democratic dreams of the architects of Glasnost and Perestroika.


Democracy isn't the antidote to Marxism, the Soviet union had elections too, those in power loved the legitimacy it gave them. I don't think there's much moral difference between using lies and fear to gain votes and just pointing a gun at people. As for Putin's despotic takeover who cares, personal freedom beats political freedom in the end. Don't forget that many good things we inherited in the West came from those who ruled and the faith that ruled them long before universal suffrage. Many of those good things are being undermined and destroyed by the wonders of democracy.


Well, all I can say after that (as I want to go to bed) is: if you like Putin's Russia so much, feel free to move there.


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Shrapnel
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15 Jun 2016, 2:39 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
What I'm talking about isn't party affiliation, but political ideology. I'm willing to bet that those Republicans who voted for civil rights were of the liberal and moderate political type, and that they would be more at home in the current Democrat party.


How does Robert Byrd, the democrat from West Virginia and Hillary mentor fit into your narrative? He voted against all civil rights bills, and Smith the obstructionist democrat from Virginia, who I mentioned.
You need to provide some citation, as I was obliged to do. Otherwise you are merely perpetuating a myth.

JFK would not fit in with today’s democrats. “ "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." How would that comment be perceived by democrats today? Your party has been hijacked by extremists. The quote that best sums up today’s democrats is:

“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

(After completing the captcha quiz my comment deleted, and I had to start from scratch. That is unnecessarily frustrating.)



Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 10:46 am

Shrapnel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
What I'm talking about isn't party affiliation, but political ideology. I'm willing to bet that those Republicans who voted for civil rights were of the liberal and moderate political type, and that they would be more at home in the current Democrat party.


How does Robert Byrd, the democrat from West Virginia and Hillary mentor fit into your narrative? He voted against all civil rights bills, and Smith the obstructionist democrat from Virginia, who I mentioned.
You need to provide some citation, as I was obliged to do. Otherwise you are merely perpetuating a myth.

JFK would not fit in with today’s democrats. “ "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." How would that comment be perceived by democrats today? Your party has been hijacked by extremists. The quote that best sums up today’s democrats is:

“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Too often we hold fast to the cliches of our forebears. We subject all facts to a prefabricated set of interpretations. We enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”

(After completing the captcha quiz my comment deleted, and I had to start from scratch. That is unnecessarily frustrating.)


Robert Byrd recanted his racism. 'Nuf said.
And the Democrats have been hijacked by extremists? The Republicans have been taken over by Dixiecrats who have been responsible for voter suppression hidden behind the lie of voter fraud laws. It's been taken over by lunatic fringe religious groups who want genuine science thrown out in favor of creationism. It's been taken over by bigots who want to keep LGBT people a despised, suppressed minority. It's been taken over by people who demonize poor people as takers, but have no problem with corporations suppressing wages and benefits, and relocating to the third world. I could go on and on. Before criticizing Democrats, how about cleaning the trash out of your own house?


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jkrane
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15 Jun 2016, 11:09 am

I'm conservative. More libertarian, but that's what classical conservatism is. I'm also socially, and economically, quite conservative. I equate conservatism with individual freedom and liberty, with small, but important government interaction.

I used to be a straight up commie. lol. Product of brainwashing and communist propaganda in the schools.



Shrapnel
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15 Jun 2016, 3:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Robert Byrd recanted his racism. 'Nuf said.


There is no evidence to support that statement. Robert Byrd died a democrat and a racist.



Lukeda420
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15 Jun 2016, 3:43 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Robert Byrd recanted his racism. 'Nuf said.


There is no evidence to support that statement. Robert Byrd died a democrat and a racist.


He denounced his involvement in the KKK and there is plenty of evidence to support that. Also no one has ever made the claim that democrats are perfect. Remember Ronald Reagan started out as a Democrat and we still haven't recovered from the damage his administration caused.



BuyerBeware
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15 Jun 2016, 4:28 pm

Probably because conservatism has some really revolting loud mouthed extremists who make civilized debate a really difficult thing to have.

Of course, that's the same reason it's difficult to be a liberal pretty much anywhere.

That's the reason it's difficult to be anything in any place other than an echo chamber these days.

Liberalism/conservatism isn't what's wrong with society.

Polarization and radicalization is.


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Shrapnel
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15 Jun 2016, 5:42 pm

Lukeda420 wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Robert Byrd recanted his racism. 'Nuf said.


There is no evidence to support that statement. Robert Byrd died a democrat and a racist.


He denounced his involvement in the KKK and there is plenty of evidence to support that.


I do not dispute that. It is a matter of record that he filibustered the 1964 civil rights act, after leaving the kkk, and was televised as late as 2001 using racial slurs. I stand behind my assertion.



Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 6:04 pm

Shrapnel wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Robert Byrd recanted his racism. 'Nuf said.


There is no evidence to support that statement. Robert Byrd died a democrat and a racist.


Well, the first part of that you got right: that he died a Democrat.
As for your other post that Byrd was caught using a racist slur on TV many years later - well, no one's perfect. And he was, after all, and old coot who was hardly politically correct. But this same man in his later years became good friends with the ultra liberal, Ted Kennedy.


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15 Jun 2016, 7:37 pm

Mikah wrote:
Don't forget that many good things we inherited in the West came from those who ruled and the faith that ruled them long before universal suffrage. Many of those good things are being undermined and destroyed by the wonders of democracy.

Wooooah, Mikah, woah. You aren't implying that women shouldn't have been allowed to vote, are you?

I hope that's not what you're implying. I mean, I assume that's not what you're implying, because I think you are smart enough to know better.



Mikah
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15 Jun 2016, 8:54 pm

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Wooooah, Mikah, woah. You aren't implying that women shouldn't have been allowed to vote, are you?

I hope that's not what you're implying. I mean, I assume that's not what you're implying, because I think you are smart enough to know better.


I'm implying there probably shouldn't be a vote at all.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 8:59 pm

Mikah wrote:
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Wooooah, Mikah, woah. You aren't implying that women shouldn't have been allowed to vote, are you?

I hope that's not what you're implying. I mean, I assume that's not what you're implying, because I think you are smart enough to know better.


I'm implying there probably shouldn't be a vote at all.


So, are you one of those Alternative Right guys?


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Mikah
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15 Jun 2016, 9:18 pm

Googled it, seems to be fairly diverse label, any particular strain you are referring to? I'm certainly not a mainstream "conservative".


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Lukeda420
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15 Jun 2016, 9:24 pm

Hey Mikah,

What kind of government do you want? I'm not going to argue, I'm just really curious.



Mikah
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15 Jun 2016, 9:45 pm

Demarchy of a sort, a House of some kind formed by random selection from an extremely educated pool of candidates, preferably with an education steeped in history and tradition. The pool would be open to anyone who cared and was able to pass the tests. Measures should be in place to make sure anyone who enters cannot have any vested interests beyond serving the country. A second House of old guys with veto powers whose job it is to assume the first house are a bunch of morons and to scutinise any legislation they try to pass for unintended consequences.

Maybe there could be a method for the general population to force a new selection, but beyond that the only influence they could have is asking one of the selected leaders for change.

I don't know how it would work out in the end, but it can't be worse than this circus of money, demagoguery and envy politics that is universal suffrage. I'd be happier with an absolute dictator, at least you can kill a dictator.


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Lukeda420
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15 Jun 2016, 9:50 pm

Yeah that's definitely not the mainstream conservative. Thanks, that was a pretty thorough answer.