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kraftiekortie
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03 Oct 2016, 9:11 am

I feel we don't have enough virtue in this world.

I feel we get fanatical about too many things, and we lose sight of most things.

I include myself in this assessment.



skysaw
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03 Oct 2016, 4:23 pm

The_Walrus wrote:

Of course, there's no reason why someone can't simply care about both. Generally speaking, the loudest voices when it comes to inner-city black-on-black murder are also BLM supporters.


Your focus is back to front, and it's not a question of simply "caring" about both. The question to ask is why BLM supporters don't react the same way following black-on-black murders, i.e. by rioting, bringing traffic to a standstill, destroying property and whole neighbourhoods, and attacking people. If it's because they believe that Whites or some "White establishment" is specifically targetting blacks, then the statistics contradict this (more blacks get killed by blacks than by whites, and more whites get killed by cops than blacks get killed by cops).

The_Walrus wrote:
Those who say "but what about black-on-black crime?" often seem to simply be trying to minimise a very real, very serious issue by raising another which they don't care much about at all, and to which they propose no solutions.


This is either stupid or dishonest of you. You've left out what those who say "but what about black-on-black crime" are reacting to. They are reacting to the likes of the BLM crowd, asking why they only riot in response to certain categories of killing. See my first paragraph above.

The_Walrus wrote:

Let me make an analogy. I don't care about immigration. Let's assume that Britain has social problems caused by immigration from Syria and Romania. It would be extremely disingenuous of me, when arguing in favour of accepting Syrian refugees, to say that Romanians are actually a bigger problem. Not only do I think that there's no reason to stop migration from Romania, but that also wouldn't change that Syrian refugees were still causing problems.


Your analogy is crap.



AspE
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03 Oct 2016, 5:06 pm

Study Supports Suspicion That Police Are More Likely to Use Force on Blacks

“The dominant narrative has been that this happens to African-Americans because they are arrested in disproportionate numbers,” said Phillip Atiba Goff, a founder and president of the Center for Policing Equity, based at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “But the data really makes it difficult to say that crime is the primary driver of this. In every single category, the anti-black disparity persists.”

The study found that the overall mean use-of-force rate for all black residents was 273 per 100,000, which is 3.6 times higher than the rate for white residents (76 per 100,000) and 2.5 times higher than the overall rate of 108 per 100,000 for all residents.

For those who were arrested, the mean rate of use of force against blacks was 46 for every 1,000 arrests, compared with 36 per 1,000 for whites.



AspE
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03 Oct 2016, 5:19 pm

L_Holmes wrote:
No, there is no way that systemic racism explains the crime rate. I have been trying to hammer home just how high it is. I use the description "insanely higher", because it truly is insanity to look at this and believe it all stems from oppression. Even when you control for things you've mentioned, the black crime rate still comes out way higher than every other race.

How do you control for a racist society? Where else would it come from? Even a culture of violence had to come from the black experience in the USA, which was one of racism, disenfranchisement, and poverty. It happened with all minorities here.



adifferentname
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04 Oct 2016, 1:37 am

AspE wrote:


Got a link to the actual study? This article lacks context.

Quote:
How do you control for a racist society?


This bollocks again? If your laws specify discrimination as a crime, your mainstream news outlets condemn racism and the whole thing is being driven by people who are from what is considered the ethnic majority, you don't have a racist society. Period.

Of course, the Progressive notion of white people being born with original sin could potentially change that, should it be adopted by law makers.



AspE
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04 Oct 2016, 8:58 am

The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.



Kraichgauer
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04 Oct 2016, 4:31 pm

AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.



I thank you for having the courage for saying so, which many of the rest of us were thinking.


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adifferentname
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04 Oct 2016, 4:49 pm

AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.



AspE
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04 Oct 2016, 5:30 pm

adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.

It's racist to think that the effects of several hundred years of slavery, jim crow, and discrimination of all kinds suddenly went away with the passing of legislation in 1964.



adifferentname
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04 Oct 2016, 8:07 pm

AspE wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.

It's racist to think that the effects of several hundred years of slavery, jim crow, and discrimination of all kinds suddenly went away with the passing of legislation in 1964.


First, when was this argued and by whom?

Secondly, your example of racism is flawed. One can believe that God exists without being a Catholic.



Kraichgauer
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05 Oct 2016, 1:36 am

adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.


:roll:


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adifferentname
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05 Oct 2016, 2:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.


:roll:


If you disagree, provide examples.



b9
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05 Oct 2016, 2:39 am

it is incorrect to tar everyone with the same brush.

there are differences between races i have found.

to say everyone is equal, and those who deviate from that are not equal, is to exclude almost all of human experience from acceptability.

arabs tend to be more easily drawn into arguments, and are more often seen wildly gesticulating in an argument about some petty thing on the streets.

asians tend to not value leisure as much as most other races, and they like to work, and so their sense of humor and musical culture is not of a good standard.

negro's tend to see opportunities in other peoples inattention, and are often prone to riotous crowd behaviour.

australian aboriginies tend to be bleak and despairing and they readily are destroyed by drugs and alcohol.

white caucasians tend to be prone to greed and extravagant adornment, and they rape and plunder the planet to satisfy their desire for luxury.


everyone is f****d in some way or another.

but....
arabs will defend to the death their true friends.
asians will be always devoted to contribution of effort for achievements and are honest and polite.
negro's who are happy and not buggered up by resentment are the deepest and most spiritual people of all. they feel things on a very true and powerful level.

australian aborigines are at peace with nature, and they and the animals lived in harmony for 50,000 years before white caucasians came in and wrought havoc with their rules and order and their diseases.

today they have their world stolen from them, but they lived in the paradise of untouched australia for so long before we came along and just leveled it all out into a smokey pit of industry.

i think that if the earth was suddenly introduced to a very powerful alien race that wanted to annihilate us in order to freely plunder our resources for their home planet, then all races of humans would suddenly band together as one, and would realize that we all are inhabitants of the same planet and are therefore akin to each other.



L_Holmes
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05 Oct 2016, 8:08 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.


:roll:

I seem to remember, on another one of my threads, you commenting on the fact that I'm white and from Missouri, which you implied made me a racist (you said something along the lines of it "affecting his opinions of black people"). I can probably go find it and post a link if you want to pretend it didn't happen. I then challenged you to find and quote any of my posts where I said something actually racist, and you simply refused, playing it off as if the truth is so obvious that you simply didn't need to back up such harsh and unfounded accusations. That is intellectual dishonesty, whether you are correct or incorrect about your claims, let alone the fact that you were choosing to attack me rather than my argument.

So the fact that I'm a white person criticizing SOME black people means I'm a racist, apparently. This is the basic response I've gotten from the people who disagree with me. Yet you are the ones openly judging me based on my skin color, and are refusing to talk about anything but that. You all are so keen to put everyone in groups and pit them against each other based on arbitrary details about their appearance. It amazes me that you can do this and still believe that you are anti-racism.


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Kraichgauer
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05 Oct 2016, 3:46 pm

L_Holmes wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.


:roll:

I seem to remember, on another one of my threads, you commenting on the fact that I'm white and from Missouri, which you implied made me a racist (you said something along the lines of it "affecting his opinions of black people"). I can probably go find it and post a link if you want to pretend it didn't happen. I then challenged you to find and quote any of my posts where I said something actually racist, and you simply refused, playing it off as if the truth is so obvious that you simply didn't need to back up such harsh and unfounded accusations. That is intellectual dishonesty, whether you are correct or incorrect about your claims, let alone the fact that you were choosing to attack me rather than my argument.

So the fact that I'm a white person criticizing SOME black people means I'm a racist, apparently. This is the basic response I've gotten from the people who disagree with me. Yet you are the ones openly judging me based on my skin color, and are refusing to talk about anything but that. You all are so keen to put everyone in groups and pit them against each other based on arbitrary details about their appearance. It amazes me that you can do this and still believe that you are anti-racism.


Well, in all honesty, it doesn't sound like you're talking about just some blacks, particularly when citing black crime statistics to justify different treatment of blacks by the police.
And sorry, but Missouri doesn't have the best civil rights record. Not nearly as bad as say, Georgia or Mississippi, but not great either.


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05 Oct 2016, 3:53 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
AspE wrote:
The racists on this forum don't really care about understanding black anger over police violence, they just want to be able to dismiss it. They don't care about black on black violence or understanding how we got here.


The only racist views I've seen on WP (aside from swiftly banned trolls) have been anti-white.


:roll:


If you disagree, provide examples.


There is no anti-white racism on WP. No one is calling for whites to lose their rights, or accusing them of committing most crimes, or breeding like rabbits. And I'm so white, my DNA probably risks being sunburned! So it's not like that I'm of some other race attacking whites. Being critical of bad treatment of others because of race doesn't mean you're a racist or a self-hating white.


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