altrighters just the other side of the same coin?

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schopenhauer with a keyboard
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08 Dec 2016, 1:16 am

in regards to SJWs of course.
while SJWs are racist against whites, altrighers are usually genuinely racist against nonwhites.
they get triggered just as easily, say if you try say something nuanced about multiculturalism or criticize 'god emperor trump', etc.
both radical ideologues.
one fervorously defends political correctness, the other pushes an in your face political incorrectness which is often indistinguishable from being an obnoxious as*hole.
i think you get the picture.
i used to think anti-feminists were even more annoying than feminists when the reactionary movement was brewing, but at least they made sense.
i think the altright is another reactionary movement, but one that goes too far and isn't the right response.
the pendulum seems to swing a bit too strongly a lot of the time, with neo-nazi groups and the like popping up in response to the muslim refugee epidemic in europe for instance.

just wanted to get that off my chest really.. it seems that politically balanced and non-biased people don't exist these days, but that's probably just a confirmation bias on my part because you don't notice them as much and they aren't as vocal on the internet.



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08 Dec 2016, 1:31 am

Well it has been described as neck beards vs leg beards before

SJWs have rose so much audacious **** over the last few years particularly in regards to 'nerdy' stuff(video games, sci fi, anime, internet) that a backlash was inevitable, they're reaping what they sow. How come you never hear Anita Sarkeesian talk about rampant misogyny and homophobia in rap music?



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08 Dec 2016, 1:35 am

I think the "alt right phenomenon" is about 70% manufactured propaganda from the radical left and their media lapdogs; about 25% 4Chan trolling of the leftist media; and about 5% weirdo ethno-nationalist types largely operating out of their parents' basements.

Here's a timely in-depth commentary by the legendary computer programmer/hacker Eric Raymond:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7258


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schopenhauer with a keyboard
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08 Dec 2016, 1:47 am

Darmok wrote:
I think the "alt right phenomenon" is about 70% manufactured propaganda from the radical left and their media lapdogs; about 25% 4Chan trolling of the leftist media; and about 5% weirdo ethno-nationalist types largely operating out of their parents' basements.

Here's a timely in-depth commentary by the legendary computer programmer/hacker Eric Raymond:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7258


you're probably right, i have actually had the thought that they overblow it on purpose because they don't have much else to work with. it's almost like controlled opposition.
they must've thought in their heads 'YAY, finally some LEGIT racist and xenophobic right wingers we can criticize and harp on to our heart's content!'.
and yes it is largely irrelevant due to the trollish nature of a lot of it and the fact that they're probably by and large losers that unfortunately probably share the spectrum with us.



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08 Dec 2016, 7:37 am

schopenhauer with a keyboard wrote:
in regards to SJWs of course.
while SJWs are racist against whites, altrighers are usually genuinely racist against nonwhites.
they get triggered just as easily, say if you try say something nuanced about multiculturalism or criticize 'god emperor trump', etc.
both radical ideologues.
one fervorously defends political correctness, the other pushes an in your face political incorrectness which is often indistinguishable from being an obnoxious as*hole.
i think you get the picture.
i used to think anti-feminists were even more annoying than feminists when the reactionary movement was brewing, but at least they made sense.
i think the altright is another reactionary movement, but one that goes too far and isn't the right response.
the pendulum seems to swing a bit too strongly a lot of the time, with neo-nazi groups and the like popping up in response to the muslim refugee epidemic in europe for instance.

just wanted to get that off my chest really.. it seems that politically balanced and non-biased people don't exist these days, but that's probably just a confirmation bias on my part because you don't notice them as much and they aren't as vocal on the internet.

This kind of dichotomy seems to crop up due to the irrational tribalistic mindset many people have. It's like people hate SJWs so much they decide to swallow a bunch of far-right nonsense. Being diametrically opposed to what constitutes "the left" in their mind becomes their identity.

I think a big part of the problem is the right has this pseudo-macho mindset where they perceive the left as "weak and sensitive", therefore in order to prove their "manly prowess", the basement dwelling losers go out of their way to be as insensitive and offensive as possible. It doesn't help that most of these 4chan goons hide behind a computer screen saying s**t they wouldn't dare say out loud.



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08 Dec 2016, 9:41 am

I think it is the other way around, SJWs have been so divisive and untolerating of dissent on their censorship campaign for years now that a movement inevitably sprang up to resist them. A lot of the stuff that happened before this campaign like GamerGate set the table for what was to come, these corners of the internet already wielded political influence in previous presidential elections and they faced an opponent that united almost all opposition against her.

Genuine grassroots activism exists on the 'right' side now whereas the other side is almost entirely astroturfed, it was a convergence of a lot groupings and other factors that overthrew the political establishment in the GOP. Anti-establishment grassroots had become a dominant faction in the GOP. I don't think there has ever been a more astroturfed candidate in history of American politics than Hillary, she reminds me of Kim Jong-un in spirit and in dress when he's on state media touring some factory. It was smoke and mirrors and only someone super smart like I am :P seemed to understand this, Hillary was an intolerable candidate with a graveyard in her closet and an authoritarian mindset. Hillary was the candidate that was a danger to our constitutional rights, she was the chosen candidate of Wall Street & the bankers, the media stopped acting as an independent press and became propagandists for the state, Hillary was the WWIII candidate that supported thoughtless aggressive antagonizing of Russia and bizarre McCarthyite accusations of imaginary Russian allegiance. Bernie's grassroots counted for nothing and was simply co-opted by the DNC. Perhaps more attention should been paid to the fact that Trump was having all these massive rallies with 10k+ people everywhere he went while Hillary hid from view and struggled to fill the venues she did use, the energy behind the Hillary campaign was almost exclusively powered by the media and was entirely negative.

The difference between the grassroots in the GOP and the DNC are structural differences which rig the game with superdelegates and a willingness on the part of conservatives to stand up to their own leadership & lose elections if need be to support a candidate that fits their views. Democrats seem largely controlled by fear and progressivism is a semi-religious order that engages in the same black and white thinking as the most socially conservative Evangelicals, you cannot oppose them because that is opposing god in their eyes.



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08 Dec 2016, 3:17 pm

Jacoby wrote:
I think it is the other way around, SJWs have been so divisive and untolerating of dissent on their censorship campaign for years now that a movement inevitably sprang up to resist them. A lot of the stuff that happened before this campaign like GamerGate set the table for what was to come, these corners of the internet already wielded political influence in previous presidential elections and they faced an opponent that united almost all opposition against her.

I won't listen to lame whining from the right about "censorship" until the left starts arresting people. In Turkey there is real censorship. In America there is nothing of the sort. It's actually insulting to people who deal with real tyranny and censorship to hear right-wing Americans whine.

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Genuine grassroots activism exists on the 'right' side now whereas the other side is almost entirely astroturfed, it was a convergence of a lot groupings and other factors that overthrew the political establishment in the GOP. Anti-establishment grassroots had become a dominant faction in the GOP.

I don't know what world you're living in. Trump is planning to appoint 100% traditional conservatives of the worst type. Anti-establishment my ass. You've been had.

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I don't think there has ever been a more astroturfed candidate in history of American politics than Hillary, she reminds me of Kim Jong-un in spirit and in dress when he's on state media touring some factory. It was smoke and mirrors and only someone super smart like I am :P seemed to understand this, Hillary was an intolerable candidate with a graveyard in her closet and an authoritarian mindset. Hillary was the candidate that was a danger to our constitutional rights, she was the chosen candidate of Wall Street & the bankers, the media stopped acting as an independent press and became propagandists for the state, Hillary was the WWIII candidate that supported thoughtless aggressive antagonizing of Russia and bizarre McCarthyite accusations of imaginary Russian allegiance. Bernie's grassroots counted for nothing and was simply co-opted by the DNC. Perhaps more attention should been paid to the fact that Trump was having all these massive rallies with 10k+ people everywhere he went while Hillary hid from view and struggled to fill the venues she did use, the energy behind the Hillary campaign was almost exclusively powered by the media and was entirely negative.

Hillary lost, I don't know why you still have such derangement syndrome over her.

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The difference between the grassroots in the GOP and the DNC are structural differences which rig the game with superdelegates and a willingness on the part of conservatives to stand up to their own leadership & lose elections if need be to support a candidate that fits their views. Democrats seem largely controlled by fear and progressivism is a semi-religious order that engages in the same black and white thinking as the most socially conservative Evangelicals, you cannot oppose them because that is opposing god in their eyes.

Real progressives are not in love with the DNC, nor are they in love with Trump. Why don't you acknowledge that we exist? We are not being funded by anyone. If Trump was a real independent he would have run as a third party candidate instead of ingratiating himself with typical Republican conservatives.



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08 Dec 2016, 6:16 pm

You can be ideologically pure and feel morally superior on the sidelines or you can you can play the game and win, Trump is actually trying to govern and get things done which means he has to work with people. He cannot, unfortunately, show up in DC on white horse and burn it to the ground and start over so Trump will have to find some middle ground with both parties which shouldn't be an issue as he revels in making deals. A guy that that can't work with people and just has contempt for everyone even if they deserve it will get froze out, see Jesse Ventura as Governor of Minnesota. Part of the reason I was drawn to Trump was his pragmatism, he might be a Republican but he is not an ideologue. I am pretty happy with Trump's transition, I am excited to see what he can do when he's actually president. I am a supporter of our constitution and the judges Trump has listed all pass the necessary litmus tests. I like his hands on approach and the personal advocacy he has done for American workers, I like how he has handled foreign policy and feel he is already better than Obama in this regard which is another big part of the reason I voted for Trump.

I am hopeful that Trump might actually be able to reel in Erdogan a bit and bring Turkey back into US orbit, Trump is already doing this with him reaching out to Egyptian president Sisi and Philippine president Duterte. For all this talk about supporting our allies, the Obama administration seem content to let go of very important strategic relationships and the reasons are not really clear. It seems like the Muslim Brotherhood has some influence in the US over certain Democratic politicians, Hillary most notably but Obama to a great extent as well. Most importantly I think he will repair the relationship between the US and Russia which will finally allow us to work for our mutual benefit and to maybe one day put an end to this 'War on Terror'. Regime change and global chess should not be the game we are playing, we need to respect the soveirgnty and leaders of other countries. I think Branstad is great pick for Ambassador to China with his relationship with Xi Jingping going back over 30 years. I am confident Trump can forge better relations with everyone he talks to and that has not been just Republicans. I like Michael Flynn and James Mattis seems like the guy we need for the job, it does not bother me having these generals in our government.

As for Hillary, there was not a single worst possible candidate they could of nominated from my perspective. I'll acknowledge these supposedly independent thinking 'progressives' when they start standing up to their own party, I like Tulsi Gabbard a lot but she's really the only Democrat I can think of since Kucinich that I found tolerable. I thought Jim Webb was a strong candidate but he's too conservative and a white male for Democrats to get behind. If there is no grassroots movement against the establishment then its you that is being had, you have to be willing to lose an election if it means defeating the enemy in your own party which you have to defeat before you start working on the other side, follow the model the Tea Party went after and primary establishment candidates. Derangement syndrome? I've been hearing this stuff my whole life so defeating Hillary is kind of like defeating Satan in my mind, I am hopeful she will be held accountable for her actions yet.

I don't think Trump has ingrained himself with all traditional conservative Republicans, he basically chased the Bush family and the neoconservative ideologues out of the party.



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08 Dec 2016, 9:37 pm

Both are examples of collectivist ways of thinking.


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09 Dec 2016, 5:48 am

Jacoby wrote:
You can be ideologically pure and feel morally superior on the sidelines or you can you can play the game and win, Trump is actually trying to govern and get things done which means he has to work with people. He cannot, unfortunately, show up in DC on white horse and burn it to the ground and start over so Trump will have to find some middle ground with both parties which shouldn't be an issue as he revels in making deals. A guy that that can't work with people and just has contempt for everyone even if they deserve it will get froze out, see Jesse Ventura as Governor of Minnesota. Part of the reason I was drawn to Trump was his pragmatism, he might be a Republican but he is not an ideologue. I am pretty happy with Trump's transition, I am excited to see what he can do when he's actually president. I am a supporter of our constitution and the judges Trump has listed all pass the necessary litmus tests. I like his hands on approach and the personal advocacy he has done for American workers, I like how he has handled foreign policy and feel he is already better than Obama in this regard which is another big part of the reason I voted for Trump.

Well, I'm not worried about foreign policy so much as domestic policy. Trump is acting as a typical anti-environmental, deregulatory, supply-side/trickle-down Republican. How do you know he won't let Ryan destroy Medicaid and Social Security? I know none of this bothers you, but these are issues I care about. Sorry.

Quote:
I am hopeful that Trump might actually be able to reel in Erdogan a bit and bring Turkey back into US orbit, Trump is already doing this with him reaching out to Egyptian president Sisi and Philippine president Duterte. For all this talk about supporting our allies, the Obama administration seem content to let go of very important strategic relationships and the reasons are not really clear. It seems like the Muslim Brotherhood has some influence in the US over certain Democratic politicians, Hillary most notably but Obama to a great extent as well. Most importantly I think he will repair the relationship between the US and Russia which will finally allow us to work for our mutual benefit and to maybe one day put an end to this 'War on Terror'. Regime change and global chess should not be the game we are playing, we need to respect the soveirgnty and leaders of other countries. I think Branstad is great pick for Ambassador to China with his relationship with Xi Jingping going back over 30 years. I am confident Trump can forge better relations with everyone he talks to and that has not been just Republicans. I like Michael Flynn and James Mattis seems like the guy we need for the job, it does not bother me having these generals in our government.

Erdogan came from the Muslim Brotherhood, and he now seems to have a fondness for Trump. Seems he respects a fellow unhinged populist in Trump. Both have a strong base of support from backwards rural voters.

Quote:
As for Hillary, there was not a single worst possible candidate they could of nominated from my perspective. I'll acknowledge these supposedly independent thinking 'progressives' when they start standing up to their own party, I like Tulsi Gabbard a lot but she's really the only Democrat I can think of since Kucinich that I found tolerable. I thought Jim Webb was a strong candidate but he's too conservative and a white male for Democrats to get behind. If there is no grassroots movement against the establishment then its you that is being had, you have to be willing to lose an election if it means defeating the enemy in your own party which you have to defeat before you start working on the other side, follow the model the Tea Party went after and primary establishment candidates. Derangement syndrome? I've been hearing this stuff my whole life so defeating Hillary is kind of like defeating Satan in my mind, I am hopeful she will be held accountable for her actions yet.

I don't think Trump has ingrained himself with all traditional conservative Republicans, he basically chased the Bush family and the neoconservative ideologues out of the party.

Progressives do stand up to "their" party. They just aren't as successful. The problem is true progressives don't have access to corporate funding. Your astroturfed tea-partiers had the support of the Koch brothers.



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09 Dec 2016, 8:11 am

Jacoby wrote:
Well it has been described as neck beards vs leg beards before

SJWs have rose so much audacious **** over the last few years particularly in regards to 'nerdy' stuff(video games, sci fi, anime, internet) that a backlash was inevitable, they're reaping what they sow. How come you never hear Anita Sarkeesian talk about rampant misogyny and homophobia in rap music?

Probably because Anita Sarkeesian likes games but doesn't like rap music...



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09 Dec 2016, 9:04 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well it has been described as neck beards vs leg beards before

SJWs have rose so much audacious **** over the last few years particularly in regards to 'nerdy' stuff(video games, sci fi, anime, internet) that a backlash was inevitable, they're reaping what they sow. How come you never hear Anita Sarkeesian talk about rampant misogyny and homophobia in rap music?

Probably because Anita Sarkeesian likes games but doesn't like rap music...


I think you have that back to front.



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09 Dec 2016, 9:48 am

adifferentname wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well it has been described as neck beards vs leg beards before

SJWs have rose so much audacious **** over the last few years particularly in regards to 'nerdy' stuff(video games, sci fi, anime, internet) that a backlash was inevitable, they're reaping what they sow. How come you never hear Anita Sarkeesian talk about rampant misogyny and homophobia in rap music?

Probably because Anita Sarkeesian likes games but doesn't like rap music...


I think you have that back to front.

Indeed. Anita Snakeesian is no gamer.



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09 Dec 2016, 9:52 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Well it has been described as neck beards vs leg beards before

SJWs have rose so much audacious **** over the last few years particularly in regards to 'nerdy' stuff(video games, sci fi, anime, internet) that a backlash was inevitable, they're reaping what they sow. How come you never hear Anita Sarkeesian talk about rampant misogyny and homophobia in rap music?

Probably because Anita Sarkeesian likes games but doesn't like rap music...


Is that even true, I am pretty sure she is front for her boyfriend's activism. I am pretty sure her videos have been exposed as fraudulent. The racist progressive stack makes it so cis white males like Anita's boyfriend must sit at the back of the bus.



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09 Dec 2016, 11:25 am

Both are whiny spoiled brats who are are overly into identity politics. Alt right are more trolls, SJW's are more bullies.


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