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Darmok
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21 Nov 2016, 12:58 pm

You shouldn't have regrets. His positive impact is being felt already. :mrgreen:

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Kraichgauer
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21 Nov 2016, 1:18 pm

sly279 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
I Regret Voting For Trump.


I don't

:P

I wish there had been another choice. A super pro gun democrat or independent would been nice.
Dodged one bullet but now Ryan is planning to take away Medicaid and ssi and throw me out on the street along with millions of other Americans. We may not have dodged a civil war , hopefully trump won't go along with it.


I recall how the former Governor of Montana, who was a pro-gun rights Democrat, had been talking about a Presidential run in 2016, but apparently nothing came of it. I do remember him making fun of white southern men for having effeminate mannerisms, so that might have been what had sunk him.


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JohnPowell
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21 Nov 2016, 2:08 pm

firemonkey wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
it's the fault of these bigoted identitarian maniacs who hate democracy. This has been brewing for a long time.


True democracy wouldn't have someone who got nearly 2m more votes losing an election.


Talk about the system before the election did you? Get a grip.


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JohnPowell
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21 Nov 2016, 2:12 pm

sly279 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
JohnPowell wrote:
it's the fault of these bigoted identitarian maniacs who hate democracy. This has been brewing for a long time.


True democracy wouldn't have someone who got nearly 2m more votes losing an election.

Good thing we're a republic not a democracy. No mob rule please


Prrrr! We are a "democracy" in the UK and we've had the same kind of reaction after the majority voted to leave the EU. These establishment and their cheerleaders will find any excuse.


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League_Girl
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21 Nov 2016, 2:19 pm

Darmok wrote:
You shouldn't have regrets. His positive impact is being felt already. :mrgreen:

Image


If people are truly being paid to protest, then why hasn't my husband's paycheck come yet?


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sly279
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21 Nov 2016, 3:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
I Regret Voting For Trump.


I don't

:P

I wish there had been another choice. A super pro gun democrat or independent would been nice.
Dodged one bullet but now Ryan is planning to take away Medicaid and ssi and throw me out on the street along with millions of other Americans. We may not have dodged a civil war , hopefully trump won't go along with it.


I recall how the former Governor of Montana, who was a pro-gun rights Democrat, had been talking about a Presidential run in 2016, but apparently nothing came of it. I do remember him making fun of white southern men for having effeminate mannerisms, so that might have been what had sunk him.


Democrats will never run a pro gun person. That's against the party line democrats have to be anti gun and republicans have to be anti abortion. Personally beliefs be dammed.



sly279
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21 Nov 2016, 3:23 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Darmok wrote:
You shouldn't have regrets. His positive impact is being felt already. :mrgreen:

Image


If people are truly being paid to protest, then why hasn't my husband's paycheck come yet?

Because he's not the lucky ones. They don't pay all of them nor has anyone said they do. They pay enough to get the ball rolling then like a snow ball rolling down hill it gathers more.



Darmok
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21 Nov 2016, 3:35 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Darmok wrote:
You shouldn't have regrets. His positive impact is being felt already. :mrgreen:

...


If people are truly being paid to protest, then why hasn't my husband's paycheck come yet?


Did he sign up with the People's Popular Liberation Front, or the Popular Front for the Liberation of People? Because, you know, one of those is a well-known scam.


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LoveNotHate
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21 Nov 2016, 3:44 pm

Let's not forget ...

This year, 5.6 million people were forced to pay the Obamacare tax penalty.

"Health Law Tax Penalty? I’ll Take It, Millions Say"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/us/ob ... .html?_r=0

Trump is going to fix this.



The_Walrus
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21 Nov 2016, 4:26 pm

sly279 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
TheSpectrum wrote:
4 or 5 big cities do not/should not runneth America.

There would be no prospect of that even if America switched to the popular vote.

Donald Trump received 61 million votes.

The population of the 20 biggest cities is only half of that, even before you factor in Republican voters, non-voters, non-citizens, and children.

My initial back-of-the-envelope calculation that Clinton needed support from 49 out of 51 territories in order to win the popular vote was a little optimistic, but it was still well over 40 territories.

In any case, I'm not sure why giving people in cities a proportional degree of representation is such a bad thing? Or why is it any worse than the system which means about 10 states "runneth America"?


Most if not all of her majority over him is from California and New York. Most other states the majority voted for trump. So they'd been overruled by 1 million Californians
Which is exactly why we have an electoral college and exactly why we're a republic not a democracy.
What if it was the other way and red states had more population and state of Texas provided 1million more votes for trump, but democrats won the electoral college? Would you feel safe letting the state of Texas decide the future of California or newyork?

This is a rather silly way of looking at it. California and New York can't win on their own. Only 10 million people voted for Clinton across those two states. That's the same number as voted for Trump in California plus third party nationwide.

Yes, I outright support the abolition of the electoral college. Maybe sometimes that means that bad candidates (of all stripes) will win instead of good candidates. Oh well, such is democracy. A direct vote is the best way to determine a presidency.

To be honest I think presidencies are stupid because they're winner-take-all, so even under AV you can end up with 49.9% of the country completely unrepresented. If I were redesigning the American system, I'd scrap the Presidency altogether. I'd probably keep the House as it is to ensure that all states are represented, but I'd have the Senate elected nationally and proportionately (i.e. no "Senator from California", rather "Libertarian Senator #5"). Not sure which I'd give governing powers... probably the Senate.

Some semantics:

Clinton got more votes in Florida than New York.
There is no contradiction between "republic" and "democracy". The USA is both a republic and a democracy. The electoral college is not the central way in which it differs from a pure democracy; the constitution and supreme court are.



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21 Nov 2016, 4:30 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Let's not forget ...

This year, 5.6 million people were forced to pay the Obamacare tax penalty.

"Health Law Tax Penalty? I’ll Take It, Millions Say"
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/us/ob ... .html?_r=0

Trump is going to fix this.


From how Trump's talking, he's going to be keeping most of Obamacare.
And lest it be forgotten, what we today call Obamacare had originally been a Republican plan, dreamed up by the far right Heritage Foundation (which had begun life opposing civil rights) as an alternative to the abortive Hilarycare of the Clinton years. Obama had originally gone with this plan because he had hoped, rather naively, that Republicans would support a plan formulated by their own people.


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Kraichgauer
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21 Nov 2016, 4:32 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Darmok wrote:
You shouldn't have regrets. His positive impact is being felt already. :mrgreen:

Image


If people are truly being paid to protest, then why hasn't my husband's paycheck come yet?


If he starts drawing a paycheck for that, count me in! :lol:


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League_Girl
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21 Nov 2016, 5:08 pm

Darmok wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Darmok wrote:
You shouldn't have regrets. His positive impact is being felt already. :mrgreen:

...


If people are truly being paid to protest, then why hasn't my husband's paycheck come yet?


Did he sign up with the People's Popular Liberation Front, or the Popular Front for the Liberation of People? Because, you know, one of those is a well-known scam.



He didn't sign up for anything.


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Jacoby
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21 Nov 2016, 6:10 pm

The electoral college will never be abolished, it would take states voting to essentially disenfranchise themselves which will never happen. Whining about it doesn't make a lot of sense, the campaign would been completely different and voters intentions would be different if it was decided by the popular vote as a lot of people don't vote because they don't live in swing states. All and all the electoral college works pretty well in ensuring broad geographic support rather than support concentrated in a few areas, it's never going to change no matter how much is cried about it so maybe Democrats instead of writing off half of America should think of ways they can appeal to middle Americans rather than plot new electoral alliances against them.

My idea is to radically expand congress to 6000+ members so representatives don't represent more than 70k people and to repeal the 17th amendment so states would go back to appointing US Senators. The House of Representatives would represent the interests of the people and the Senate would represent the states. Right now the Senate is essentially just a super congress, I don't think it serves too much a purpose other than complicating things. Add in term limits and I think we'd see a lot better governance with much less corruption.



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21 Nov 2016, 10:13 pm

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
I Regret Voting For Trump.


I don't

:P

I wish there had been another choice. A super pro gun democrat or independent would been nice.
Dodged one bullet but now Ryan is planning to take away Medicaid and ssi and throw me out on the street along with millions of other Americans. We may not have dodged a civil war , hopefully trump won't go along with it.


I recall how the former Governor of Montana, who was a pro-gun rights Democrat, had been talking about a Presidential run in 2016, but apparently nothing came of it. I do remember him making fun of white southern men for having effeminate mannerisms, so that might have been what had sunk him.


Democrats will never run a pro gun person. That's against the party line democrats have to be anti gun and republicans have to be anti abortion. Personally beliefs be dammed.


You got that right.


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Misslizard
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21 Nov 2016, 11:41 pm

Most rural democrats are gun owners.
Here is a democrat the NRA loves.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 4b316.html


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