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0_equals_true
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20 Nov 2016, 4:01 pm

Whatever you think of Trump, his legacy will be this wall. Do you agree?

It would be interesting to see how that turns out for him. I suggest that the Democrats don't oppose the wall. Let him have a go.

What do you think will happen?

Personally I think it will not be logistically impossible to make a secure wall that serves the intended purpose. He has already climbed down on building a wall, saying that it will be more of a fence in places.

I think fence or wall, as a concept it will not work, the area is too large and the terrain too varied. At to moment the cartels can go round the walls that exist, but they don't bother. They go through them like a knife through butter.



Jacoby
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20 Nov 2016, 4:17 pm

A lot of what Trump wants to achieve can simply be done by enforcing already existing immigration law which the Obama administration has decided not to do, all the executive orders can be undone by a simple decree. It's not as if Obama hasn't deported anyone, I think the number could be greatly increased without much disruption.

A wall will work for it's stated purpose, the logistics are the easiest part of getting this built. People don't understand how porous this border is, here the cartels coming up thru the mountains and thru reservation lands often on foot in heavily armed platoons with the most sophisticated surveillance technology.



redrobin62
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20 Nov 2016, 5:07 pm

<--- Will personally dismantle the wall brick by brick.



0_equals_true
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21 Nov 2016, 6:56 pm

Jacoby wrote:
A wall will work for it's stated purpose, the logistics are the easiest part of getting this built.


Based on what evidence?

Even the Great wall of china failed to work, and was only intended as a channeling fortification.

I think anyone with half a brain knwo how porous the border with Mexico is. That is precisely why his won't work.

It is wishful thinking at best.



0_equals_true
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21 Nov 2016, 6:58 pm

If you want Mexicans to stay in Mexico, that game is an economic one. There are far better uses for the money.

Like I say, let him try. We will see.



Jacoby
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21 Nov 2016, 7:10 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
A wall will work for it's stated purpose, the logistics are the easiest part of getting this built.


Based on what evidence?

Even the Great wall of china failed to work, and was only intended as a channeling fortification.

I think anyone with half a brain knwo how porous the border with Mexico is. That is precisely why his won't work.

It is wishful thinking at best.


Making it not so porous is the entire point and it would work in stopping illegal border crossings, now most illegal immigrants do not get in this way altho it's still a considerable number. It would stop the drug cartels and human traffickers, hundreds of people die trying to cross this border on foot every year. There are already barriers in high trafficked areas I think totally something like 500 miles so I really don't see an issue with it getting built, the terrain in some areas pose a natural barrier but as I mentioned before that these cartels often make their ways thru the mountains in southern Arizona. Once this route is cut off then people will stop attempting to cross it, most of the people illegally crossing the border now are not even Mexican but rather Central American so something can be worked out with the Mexican government to secure their much smaller southern border as well. Mexicans are much much tougher than the US is towards illegal immigrants, even Canada is tougher than we are.

A tariff or taxing remittance payments or perhaps redirecting funds from the defunded 'sanctuary cities' would pay for it, I would station a lot more military along the border and hire a lot more border patrol. People scoff at the idea but people entering this country that we have no idea who the hell they are is a huge national security risk, I hear all the time down here about them picking up folks from Afghanistan or Pakistan or wherever from the Middle East.

It would work for the stated purpose, there is no reason it wouldn't and it would be a lot cheaper and something tangible compared to the trillion dollar wars we've fought in the middle east nation building.



The_Walrus
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22 Nov 2016, 7:10 am

Looks like Trump is backing away from securing the border. It was originally his #1 priority, something he would begin work on in his first day in office. Now, he's saying that his main priorities are ending TPP, allowing dirty coal, and visa reform.

This comes hot on the tail of Trump retracting his policy of banning Muslims from entering the US.

What do you know... a politician lied about their priorities 8O :lol:



Jacoby
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22 Nov 2016, 9:34 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Looks like Trump is backing away from securing the border. It was originally his #1 priority, something he would begin work on in his first day in office. Now, he's saying that his main priorities are ending TPP, allowing dirty coal, and visa reform.

This comes hot on the tail of Trump retracting his policy of banning Muslims from entering the US.

What do you know... a politician lied about their priorities 8O :lol:


You're trying to look for contradictions that aren't there, the wall will still happen and it seems like it has been discussed as recently as yesterday with Kris Kobach.



The_Walrus
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22 Nov 2016, 9:41 am

Donald Trump wrote:
Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First

1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.

Source

The wall will probably happen - but it seems that it is no longer priority #1 on Day One.



Jacoby
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22 Nov 2016, 9:50 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Donald Trump wrote:
Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First

1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.

Source

The wall will probably happen - but it seems that it is no longer priority #1 on Day One.


The presidency has many powers but the wall can't be implemented unilaterally, it is something that will need to worked out with congress. Obama made extensive use of executive orders which Trump can wipe away day 1 by himself which is what these Day 1 plans are. I haven't gotten the indication that he won't do anything that he has promised to, I think a lot of people in the media misrepresented what he believed and was seriously proposing so they may be surprised but he's been true to his word so far.



The_Walrus
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22 Nov 2016, 10:10 am

Jacoby wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Donald Trump wrote:
Donald J. Trump’s 10 Point Plan to Put America First

1. Begin working on an impenetrable physical wall on the southern border, on day one. Mexico will pay for the wall.

Source

The wall will probably happen - but it seems that it is no longer priority #1 on Day One.


The presidency has many powers but the wall can't be implemented unilaterally, it is something that will need to worked out with congress. Obama made extensive use of executive orders which Trump can wipe away day 1 by himself which is what these Day 1 plans are. I haven't gotten the indication that he won't do anything that he has promised to, I think a lot of people in the media misrepresented what he believed and was seriously proposing so they may be surprised but he's been true to his word so far.

Does that include www.donaldjtrump.com ?



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22 Nov 2016, 10:24 am

No it includes stupid assertions like that he's going to ban all Muslims, deport legal citizens, reverse the ruling on gay marriage, or whatever other overly literal interpretation and bending of his words by partisan media.



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22 Nov 2016, 12:26 pm

I thought we already had up a fence across the border, why a wall?

Want to do something about illegal immigration, enforce the law. That is what other countries do. One guy in my area had to be deported back to South Korea because his adoptive parents never applied to US citizenship and neither did his foster parents. This is sadly common in adoptees to find out they are not US citizens because their adopters didn't know they were supposed to apply for their US citizenship, they just assumed they were automatically US citizen. My husband was born in Germany but both his parents are US citizen and born here so he was automatically a US citizen. A new law passed in 2000 and became effective in February 2001 that all adoptees are automatically US Citizen but that only applied to those who were currently under the age of 18. The adoptee did try to get a US citizenship but because he had a criminal record, he couldn't get one so he got deported back. It was sad because he had a wife and kids so that split the family up and he reunited with his birth mother. I do think something has to be done about this part. You grow up in a country that is like your home and then you are forced to leave it and then brought into a whole different culture and you don't know the language or lifestyle or their culture. Very scary. It just seems inhumane. At least his own birth mother was willing to take him in and have him live with her but she will be a complete stranger to him.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/26/us ... ouple.html

How this happened worked the way the law is supposed to work but it doesn't cover the patch for adoptees because their adoptive parents failed to apply for a US citizenship for them because they just assumed it was automatic. I read this is very common because that law didn't pass until the year 2000 but it only applied to those under 18.


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friedmacguffins
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22 Nov 2016, 2:58 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I thought we already had up a fence across the border, why a wall?


Why a bridge to nowhere.

We ask, rhetorically, but it has an answer.



Jacoby
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22 Nov 2016, 3:48 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I thought we already had up a fence across the border, why a wall?

Want to do something about illegal immigration, enforce the law. That is what other countries do. One guy in my area had to be deported back to South Korea because his adoptive parents never applied to US citizenship and neither did his foster parents. This is sadly common in adoptees to find out they are not US citizens because their adopters didn't know they were supposed to apply for their US citizenship, they just assumed they were automatically US citizen. My husband was born in Germany but both his parents are US citizen and born here so he was automatically a US citizen. A new law passed in 2000 and became effective in February 2001 that all adoptees are automatically US Citizen but that only applied to those who were currently under the age of 18. The adoptee did try to get a US citizenship but because he had a criminal record, he couldn't get one so he got deported back. It was sad because he had a wife and kids so that split the family up and he reunited with his birth mother. I do think something has to be done about this part. You grow up in a country that is like your home and then you are forced to leave it and then brought into a whole different culture and you don't know the language or lifestyle or their culture. Very scary. It just seems inhumane. At least his own birth mother was willing to take him in and have him live with her but she will be a complete stranger to him.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/26/us ... ouple.html

How this happened worked the way the law is supposed to work but it doesn't cover the patch for adoptees because their adoptive parents failed to apply for a US citizenship for them because they just assumed it was automatic. I read this is very common because that law didn't pass until the year 2000 but it only applied to those under 18.


It is true that Trump can accomplish a lot of what he wants by simply enforcing laws already on the books that the open borders advocating Obama administration refused to enforce. There is a fence/barrier along about 300-400 miles of the border, it is in high trafficked crossing areas mostly. Trump will expand upon what is already there, to combat the drug cartels and human traffickers they have to close off the entire thing.



redrobin62
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22 Nov 2016, 4:37 pm

The. Wall. Will. Not. Be. Built.

I. Will. Personally. Dismantle. The. Motherf*cker.