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Tim_Tex
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08 Jan 2017, 4:37 am

One of the biggest political issues these days is whether to increase the minimum wage, usually to the $11-15 range.

I, as of yet, have not made a formal stand on the issue. I have the following questions:

1. How would an increase affect inflation?

2. Would other income levels go up complimentary?


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nurseangela
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08 Jan 2017, 5:27 am

I believe all other wages would have to go up because of inflation. If you take a fast food restaurant, you raise salaries, then you have to increase food prices as well. For me, I don't eat out that much, but others might have to decrease the number of times they eat out. The restaurant owner would also have to hire fewer people so some may lose their jobs. The increase in salaries will be passed on to the consumer. The workers who make $15 will want to make more and other workers who make more will want their salary increased - a domino effect. There has to be a cap eventually. Economists a couple years ago were saying once the interest rates increased, then the inflation would be so bad that we would experience the worst depression this country has ever seen. I guess we'll see because they are thinking about raising the interest rates here pretty soon.


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09 Jan 2017, 1:16 am

It's already screwing with my place, a small butcher shop and restaurant, because it's forcing us to spend our labor dollars on unskilled positions instead of giving raises to our skilled workers. It's short sighted at best, as I imagine more people will be finding out in the near future.


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friedmacguffins
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09 Jan 2017, 2:53 pm

Edgar the Exploiter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFbYM2EDz40
An explanation of how the minimum wage can be expected to harm marginal workers (even while it might help others).



friedmacguffins
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09 Jan 2017, 3:00 pm

Everyone believes that the social contract is unilateral. That you are obliged, but can never benefit.

Management is obliged to pay, out of pocket.

Labor is obliged to work without pay, or primal living needs.

If the solution to everything is govt control, as by social contract, the govt is obliged to provide humane living standards.

In terms of inflation --
Market makers set the value of the dollar, as well as commodities and services.

Since inflation is within the realm of govt influence, the govt is morally accountable.



izzeme
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11 Jan 2017, 7:51 am

An increase in minimum wage will indeed cause some inflation, but that isn't a big boogyman, inflation is a good thing (in small to medium amounts).

There have been experiments in a few states in the US, where they increased the minimum wage to a living wage (where you could afford a 1-bedroom appartment and enough food to be not underfed, if buying cheap brands), if you worked 40 hours a week. (for reference, in some cities, you need to work 60, 70 or even more hours per week for that, while where i live, in the netherlands, we get that standard of living with 36 hours).

This experiment resulted in an increase of average health and satisfaction for the lowest 'ranks' of the population, the medium incomes barely noticed a thing, and the company bosses ended up making *more* profits, since they could sell more products



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11 Jan 2017, 8:43 am

A Minimum Wage increase is good, but expect to hear a lot from supply-siders saying how it encourages laziness in workers and how $15 an hour at McDonald's results in $20 Big Macs and how the whole thing should be abolished. If it is abolished, it could be worse. At least employers don't have the power to call the National Guard to execute their employees and their families for refusing to work for slave wages. Oh wait, that could happen again.

I looked up the Ludlow Massacre. I've heard rants about how CONservatives want to take us back to the 19th century or whatever, but they wouldn't go so far as to allow this to happen again, would they?


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11 Jan 2017, 9:33 am

There is a tendency to view wages as a zero sum game, in which there is a fixed amount of money to be distributed among everyone.

This is wrong. Giving the lowest paid workers a living wage allows them to take care of their families and maintain a much better standard of health. Better health helps everyone. The best way to stop disease is to prevent it from breaking out in the first place. And with less disease there is less of a burden on medical services.



nurseangela
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11 Jan 2017, 9:45 am

If they keep raising minimum wage, I'm going to go flip burgers - a lot less stressful and I'll actually get a lunch break for a change and maybe even a few bathroom breaks to boot!


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The_Walrus
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11 Jan 2017, 9:57 am

The short answer is that it's a complicated question. Studies have found a variety of responses. There are always going to be people who benefit and people who lose out.

Usually other income levels do not seem to go up, that's certainly been my experience. I've gone from being above minimum wage to having my wage pulled up by it to having other compensation cut so my basic rate can go up without affecting my take-home pay to finally being within pennies per hour of management.



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11 Jan 2017, 1:03 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
A Minimum Wage increase is good, but expect to hear a lot from supply-siders saying how it encourages laziness in workers and how $15 an hour at McDonald's results in $20 Big Macs and how the whole thing should be abolished. If it is abolished, it could be worse. At least employers don't have the power to call the National Guard to execute their employees and their families for refusing to work for slave wages. Oh wait, that could happen again.

I looked up the Ludlow Massacre. I've heard rants about how CONservatives want to take us back to the 19th century or whatever, but they wouldn't go so far as to allow this to happen again, would they?


I just had to comment...

You said:
"...and how $15 an hour at McDonald's results in $20 Big Macs..."

...and just wanted to note it takes a worker about 1 minute to build a BigMac when doing groups of them. If your grill person gets a $5.00 an hour raise that increases the cost of your sandwich by $0.08. Probably won't break you. The people claiming "..$20.00 Big..." just try to take advantage of those not so "math literate."



Aspiegaming
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11 Jan 2017, 1:55 pm

ZenDen wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
A Minimum Wage increase is good, but expect to hear a lot from supply-siders saying how it encourages laziness in workers and how $15 an hour at McDonald's results in $20 Big Macs and how the whole thing should be abolished. If it is abolished, it could be worse. At least employers don't have the power to call the National Guard to execute their employees and their families for refusing to work for slave wages. Oh wait, that could happen again.

I looked up the Ludlow Massacre. I've heard rants about how CONservatives want to take us back to the 19th century or whatever, but they wouldn't go so far as to allow this to happen again, would they?


I just had to comment...

You said:
"...and how $15 an hour at McDonald's results in $20 Big Macs..."

...and just wanted to note it takes a worker about 1 minute to build a BigMac when doing groups of them. If your grill person gets a $5.00 an hour raise that increases the cost of your sandwich by $0.08. Probably won't break you. The people claiming "..$20.00 Big..." just try to take advantage of those not so "math literate."

That's why I hate supply-siders.


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Sabreclaw
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12 Jan 2017, 6:24 am

People love to sneer and spit at those involved in "unskilled" jobs, but does anyone care to explain how the people doing those jobs are supposed to move on to better things when they're paid scraps?



LoveNotHate
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12 Jan 2017, 9:40 am

Just because the minimum wage is increased, doesn't mean the employee is better off.

Employers could compensate by:
-cutting hours
-cut/eliminate 401k contributions (retirement savings)
-lowering sick and vacation time
-cutting back on employee bonuses
-cutting employee perks

Also, Seattle business groups are saying that the $15 minimum is causing some people to no longer qualify for welfare.



Tim_Tex
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12 Jan 2017, 10:23 am

As for housing prices going way up, I do think price ceilings should be instated. When there is a political party called the Rent Is Too Damn High Party (a real party, btw), it's definitely an issue.

Also, when people like Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein talk about taxing the billionaires at ~90%, exactly how would the tax revenues be allocated? How are they allocated in the European social democracies?


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EzraS
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12 Jan 2017, 1:07 pm

I know someone who works in Seattle who just got a letter saying his pay was going to increase to $15 per hour.
He also got a letter from his landlord saying his rent was going up an extra $300 per month. Find a cheaper place? They all raised their rents to that level. Coincidence?